You WILL NOT make mid 300's on a 16g. Someone suggested a GT2871, I'd second that choice. A 30R is overkill for mid 300's.

And also to people throwing "disco potato" around with "GT28", news flash, the GT28RS is the disco potato and will make more power than a 16G.

There are quite a few variations of GT28's so you should be more specific.

 

There are so many variables. Ive been looking at t3/t4's Some 50 trims some 60. it seems to be my rang for power and motor size. But there are 5 stages of each. IDK what to get. they are all the same price.

 

5 stages of each, wtf? What site are you looking at? Link?

http://www.rogueusa.com/Garrett-T3-T...t-t3to4e50.htm

Click add to cart and then checkout. Problems solved. 350hp on its way to your mail box.

 

You need to research the big 16g vs. the GT28. The big 16g will infact support more power than the disco potatoe. If you want to I can post up the specs and compressor maps, or you could figure it out for yourself and let it rest. Oh and BTW, I was talking about the disco potatoe.

 

Post it up. The hp vs torque thing is getting old, I'd be more than happy to own you on a 16g vs any GT series. I happen to have first hand experience with both so I could give a crap about your research and compressor maps.

Oh, and while you're at it. Post up the turbine maps so I don't have to. Because that's where all the power is made. The B16G is the biggest pile of **** turbo ever created.

 

I NEVER said that the big 16g is better than a Garrett, stop putting words in people's mouths you constantly do that.

Hahaha, you sir are a piece of work. Yeah the turbine side is what affects the way boost is created, but the compressor side (You know, the side that actually feeds the engine air) is what determines maximum CFM.

I'm not going to waste my time with you again.

 

No SIR, the turbine side efficiency is what determines how much backpressure you're going to need to turn the compressor to make the boost and thus how much power you ultimately make.

Mitsubishi turbines suck to begin with, even compared to Garrett T series, never mind the GT series which blows even the T seires out of the water. That GT28's turbine will outflow the B16shit turbine by enormous amounts and it will do the same amount of work at a much lower pressure ratio. And THAT, SIR, is where all the power is made.

And I'm not sure what you mean by, "the way boost is created". It's only created one way, do we really need to go over that? Turbine turns the shaft and the compressor is on the shaft and it sucks in the air... *eyeroll*

But by all means, post up those compressor charts with your plot points. I'd like to further discuss that side of things.

 

i made 403 to the tire on a big 16g.

please. know what you are talking about before you rattle off info.

p.s. there is an evo 9 here in kc that put down 348 on a stock turbo.

odd, people have gone deep into the 11's on them.

 

Thats cheap!! good find!!

Link http://www.turboneticsinc.com/downlo....5_Pricing.pdf

 

Too bad a stock Evo 9 turbo isn't even remotely comparable to a B16G. I also call TOTAL bs on you making anything near 403whp on a B16G without nitrous.\

People have also gone 9's on T25's. I'm amazed to find that the 16G nut swinging idiots extent even to the Cobalt boards. You must be a former DSM owner.

They also have 57 and 60 trims for the same price. In spite of the higher numbers I'd highly recommend getting the 50 trim. Crunch your numbers in here and you'll see why...

http://not2fast.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_calc.shtml

The 50 trim is PROVEN to make 350hp easily and by proven I don't mean I'm Mikey that looks up compressor charts and spouts of numbers like I know something, I mean I've SEEN it make 350whp without breaking a sweat on multiple cars.


Ah, you were looking at Turbonetics. That's why it was so confusing.

Just get the .63 a/r exhaust and a 4 bolt housing if you're using an external gate or a 5 bolt housing if you're using internal. And be sure to check for clearance issues with the maker of the manifold because 4 bolts and 5 kick the turbine housing out at different angles.

 

You must have ***** the size of peanuts, because you're always pissed off and trying to prove yourself, even though you make horrible unsupported points.

The maximum amount of CFM a turbo can push is LIMITED by the COMPRESSOR. It doesn't matter how bad ass the turbine you have is, if you have a compressor that pushes 500cfm before it chokes, that's how much it will put out unless you modify it. I would expect you to know that.

 

The fact that you're talking about CFM is what makes you too stupid to be worth arguing with. WTF relation does CFM have to anything? WTF is CFM? It's a worthless measurement used by people that don't understand the first thing about turbocharging.

Start talking LBS/MIN, something that is actually a relevant measurement and THEN you might be worth arguing with.


And guess what. You can have world's biggestestestest compressor that flows 90000lbs/min, but that doesn't mean you'll make 90000lbs/min worth of HP if your turbine side is such a restrictive mess that your engine is choking to death on its own exhaust.

 

Ahaha , CFM and LBS/MIN correlate, as in they are two different units that can represent the same thing. It's like pounds vs. kilograms.

Of course, you are exactly right; if you have a compressor that can flow 90000lbs/min but a crappy turbine it won't flow that max amount. But, we're talking about turbos that have matched components aren't we? You're right, you need to look at the turbine and it's specs. It still all boils down to the fact that the compressor is what is providing the engine with the air. You are the one who said compressor maps don't matter not me; and I never said the turbine doesn't matter, just that the compressor does too.

 

Oh really? But no, sorry.

CF is a measure of volume, LBS is a measure of weight.

The problem with CFM is that it's relative to the pressure of the air. 500CFM @ 1psi is FAR FAR FAR less air than 500CFM @ 50psi and it is therefore a totally invalid figure to use for airflow on a boosted engine.

LBS/MIN does not vary with boost pressure. A pound of air is a pound of air regardless of what pressure it's at. That's why LBS/MIN is used to calculate engine output and maximum supported HP for turbos. Weight/time as flow is the only valid measurement for a compressor map. Using volume/time is impossible because the density changes with the pressure and you end up with differing amounts of air taking up the same volume.

Ever notice that ECU's read airflow in grams/sec (or other weight/time) and not CFM.... I wonder why that is?

Did you understand that one ok? I know you know everything, but you're disappointing me right now. I was hoping not to have to explain this turbo 101 stuff to you.

 

cubic feet per minute.

psi is a measure of resistance.

do you actually know what you're talking about?

 

It's quite amusing actually. He thinks he's p0wning right now.

let him p0wn dude, let him p0wn.

 

Say whaaa?

CFM is not a measure of MASS FLOW, which is what matters. It's a measure of VOLUME FLOW, which is worthless because the mass of any given volume of air depends on its desity which changes with boost pressure and temperature.

I'll let Garrett pwn you for me. Email them and tell them they're wrong.

Do you understand what that means? It means that your CFM measurement is worthless without taking the density into account and the density will vary wildly with boost pressure.

 

i suggest you dig up the Talon Digest archives.

lemmie guess, you have dsm link.
it's ok, most of us know that our engines are not an equalizer.

gm maf-t is a joke. people were going 10's with smaller turbo's, STOCK ecu, and a modded mas air, and half the money people are spending on these things today, and you question me? seriously. people throw big turbo's on a 4g and think they can run fast. i can count on all of my fingers how many times i proved this wrong to people here in town when i had my b16g car.

yes im a former dsm owner.
why did i get rid of them? because i don't have to work on my car every two days to keep it running.

and this is why i never go to dsm sites anymore.

 

Further pwnage...


The best one...

 

Ahahaha, yes, Garrett is right. You do need to take into account density. Good job *gives cookie*.

You're just trying to find things at this point, to "p0wn" with. Did I ever say lbs/min wasn't a good measurement, no? Did I ever say CFM was better? No I didn't. I simply said you can use a calculation to convert them accurately enough to do the job. Otherwise you would need a barometer lol . Quit posting in circles trying to prove yourself, no one cares, since when was the topic cfm vs. lbs/min .

 

The totally explains your ignorance.

So in conclusion, keep thinking that your CFM measurements have any bearing on how much power the turbo can support and I'll just keep laughing at the fact that you think you know something about anything, because you clearly don't.

Looking forward to embarssing you in the next topic.

So go convert it and realize that you're beloved 16G that you thought flows 550cfm, actually flows more like 300cfm at the pressure ratio you actually need to move that much air.

Bottom line, you don't know WTF you're talking about but you're here giving people advice on turbos. No wonder my local Cobalt owners are such misinformed morons.

 

I'm am sure of it now, you do have small *****.

You can use all of the little cut downs you can muster. That doesn't change the fact that I do know what I'm talking about. You think you know what you're talking about.

It all depends on the map you are given to plot on. If the map rates it in CFM, as long as you do the proper calculations, density will be provided for. If you have a map in lbs/min same thing, so it all works out just fine. You act as if I went through trouble to convert to CFM or something; no, some manufactures give you maps with CFM and some with LBS/Min, you have to know how to work with both of them.

From Garrett's websit:
"Many people use Volumetric Flow Rate (expressed in cubic feet per minute, CFM or ft3/min) instead of mass flow rate. Volumetric flow rate can be converted to mass flow by multiplying by the air density. Air density at sea level is 0.076lb/ft3 " See, it's a safe bet to use this formula unless you live in an area of high altitude.

Have a nice day.

 

try again. im doing things no one on this board is doing, and sharing info. this is how things grow. someone has to be the test monkey to get the right info on what works and what doesn't THIS is how the dsm world got started.
do you think shepard jumped into the game in and built a 10 second car from scratch?

nope, the guy he bought it froma person, who built it to go 10's. it did, he sold it. and now look at him.

the person that built it had to do trial error.

i don't see you here contributing jack ****, you're not the one going to dyno every weekend with a cobalt, trying new things here and there. risking your motor for the sake of teaching people new things.

and im the ignorant one.
how about you go build a dsm for less then 500 bucks without nitrous that traps 108 mph. BTW the 500 dollars includes the price of the car.

 

gt2876RS to be specific....the latter number(71, 76, ect) dictate things such as various cover AR's, wheel trim, ect.

but yea, your rite on the face that a gt28r is not the "disco potato"

+1 on that bottle segment.

 

Again you don't understand what you're talking about, but are trying desparately to sound intelligent. You don't just multiply by 0.076 and call it a day, there are more factors. You forgot the rest of the equation...

V = n x R x T/P,
V=volume, T=temperature, P=pressure, and n x R is mass


CFM is for ignorant ricers to throw around and try to sound intelligent.