I am going to go Super 20G Turbo soon...
10-16-2006, 03:48 PM
#51
Yeah some of the LI big turbo guys are puttin out some serious numbers... 380+ whp and as posted earlier check out www.rippmods.com .. 533whp neon... sick
10-16-2006, 03:56 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by Fueledpassion
You know the LSJ could easily handle 18psi bone stock. GM wouldn't boost it under warranty @ 15psi unless it could handle 20psi reliably. I don't know why you guys are going forged pistons and chromoly rods unless your planned to race everyday. Doesn't make since at all to me. 18psi is enough to push 350+tq and who knows how much HP. I'd say port n' polish the head, adding at least 50CFM, then add some really, really good valvetrain and of course upgrade the cams to a higher profile with longer duration and a slightly higher lift. This would allow you to sucessfully add 1500RPM's to your rev range and still make power. THEN you could use a 60-1 .63A/R turbo and boost to 18psi. That would easily make 400whp since you've added RPM's AND you've added CFM and higher profile cams.
10-16-2006, 03:56 PM
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With the innovations in turbocharger technologies, I think it would be better to spend a little more money, and get fast spool with big boost. The 20G is old technology, thus the serious lag it will have with the 2.0L engine. I've already talked to one turbo company and picked out the perfect turbo (for what I want) with the fastest spool available in that series, and it's still capable of 400whp. It utilizes a common T-3 flange, and can be fitted with internal or external wastegates.
10-16-2006, 05:35 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by 2K5SS/SC?
If I could get orders to Japan, no offense guys, but my Cobalt would be sold in a heartbeat. I love her, but I think a R33 or R34 GTR would be sitting in my driveway instead. 
The Marine Corps is paying me well enouph that I can pay off the Balt and indulge myself while I'm over there. I'm not sure if I'll want to pay to have a Skyline converted for American driving or not. I may get an STI or something like that. STI's will be easier to convert since they already have an equivalent over here.
10-16-2006, 07:21 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by 2K5SS/SC?
If I could get orders to Japan, no offense guys, but my Cobalt would be sold in a heartbeat. I love her, but I think a R33 or R34 GTR would be sitting in my driveway instead.
Or an 3rd Gen RX-7 (2000-2002 year preferrably).
10-16-2006, 07:33 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Fueledpassion
You know the LSJ could easily handle 18psi bone stock. GM wouldn't boost it under warranty @ 15psi unless it could handle 20psi reliably. I don't know why you guys are going forged pistons and chromoly rods unless your planned to race everyday. Doesn't make since at all to me. 18psi is enough to push 350+tq and who knows how much HP. I'd say port n' polish the head, adding at least 50CFM, then add some really, really good valvetrain and of course upgrade the cams to a higher profile with longer duration and a slightly higher lift. This would allow you to sucessfully add 1500RPM's to your rev range and still make power. THEN you could use a 60-1 .63A/R turbo and boost to 18psi. That would easily make 400whp since you've added RPM's AND you've added CFM and higher profile cams.
I fully agree with upgrading the valvetrain. You can't honestly expect to throw tons of air and for it to all be going through you small ports on your cylinder head and your camshafts to keep the valves open long enough to support it.
Now, you're talking about PSI relative to HP. You should really concentrate on CFM. Yes, people are boosting upwards of 18 PSI with an M62 but in alot of cases, the CFM produced by the M62 is much less and isn't as efficient as a decently sized turbocharger. Because of this, this is why people are running into heating issues. When it reaches past it's efficiency mark, it's generating more heat than it is producing power. Why do you think there are guys who are blowing head gaskets? It's not a power issue, it's heat. Keeping the intake air temperatures down is the problem and sorry to say but the aftercooling system you guys have (ATW) isn't as efficient at cooling as it should be.
As far as PSI goes, it's just a measurement of pressure. Thats it. CFM per PSI is what counts.
10-16-2006, 07:35 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by NJHK
You are sort of onto something.
I fully agree with upgrading the valvetrain. You can't honestly expect to throw tons of air and for it to all be going through you small ports on your cylinder head and your camshafts to keep the valves open long enough to support it.
Now, you're talking about PSI relative to HP. You should really concentrate on CFM. Yes, people are boosting upwards of 18 PSI with an M62 but in alot of cases, the CFM produced by the M62 is much less and isn't as efficient as a decently sized turbocharger. Because of this, this is why people are running into heating issues. When it reaches past it's efficiency mark, it's generating more heat than it is producing power. Why do you think there are guys who are blowing head gaskets? It's not a power issue, it's heat. Keeping the intake air temperatures down is the problem and sorry to say but the aftercooling system you guys have (ATW) isn't as efficient at cooling as it should be.
As far as PSI goes, it's just a measurement of pressure. Thats it. CFM per PSI is what counts.
I fully agree with upgrading the valvetrain. You can't honestly expect to throw tons of air and for it to all be going through you small ports on your cylinder head and your camshafts to keep the valves open long enough to support it.
Now, you're talking about PSI relative to HP. You should really concentrate on CFM. Yes, people are boosting upwards of 18 PSI with an M62 but in alot of cases, the CFM produced by the M62 is much less and isn't as efficient as a decently sized turbocharger. Because of this, this is why people are running into heating issues. When it reaches past it's efficiency mark, it's generating more heat than it is producing power. Why do you think there are guys who are blowing head gaskets? It's not a power issue, it's heat. Keeping the intake air temperatures down is the problem and sorry to say but the aftercooling system you guys have (ATW) isn't as efficient at cooling as it should be.
As far as PSI goes, it's just a measurement of pressure. Thats it. CFM per PSI is what counts.
10-16-2006, 07:42 PM
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^^Exactly, and there a few tricks to even further increase it's efficiency, second HE and/or multi pass end plates
As long as the M62 is kept in it's efficiency range, the laminova is actually pretty competent
As long as the M62 is kept in it's efficiency range, the laminova is actually pretty competent
10-16-2006, 07:45 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by NoRemorse
isn't as effecient as it should be?? are you kidding? just curious, how much do you know about the laminova cores and thier effeiecency?
Also, if it was efficient, people wouldn't be trying to change heat exchangers and find different ways to improve their aftercooling system.
10-16-2006, 08:00 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by NJHK
I'm not an expert by far and I don't know as much as probably you do but I can atleast say that if you're average temperatures are exceeding 100 degrees and climbing on a stock pulley, that's a problem in my eyes.
Also, if it was efficient, people wouldn't be trying to change heat exchangers and find different ways to improve their aftercooling system.
Also, if it was efficient, people wouldn't be trying to change heat exchangers and find different ways to improve their aftercooling system.
O.k the turbo making more power and efficient then the supercharger has nothing to do with the intercooler we have (The laminova is actualy one of the best intercooler's).
The supercharger makes less power? Why? because the supercharger needs HP in order to make HP.
The turbo uses the "waste" exhaust gas to spin the turbine taking no HP from the engine to make HP.
Both have their pro's and con's..... but the turbo will generate more power using the same PSI level.
strictly examples:
1 PSI = supercharger makes 10HP and 5HP to make it. total 5HP.
1 PSI = turbo makes 10HP and 1HP(exhaust backpressure) to make it. total 9HP.
*note a 3" exhaust takes care of the backpressure problem on a turbo car.
10-16-2006, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by NJHK
I'm not an expert by far and I don't know as much as probably you do but I can atleast say that if you're average temperatures are exceeding 100 degrees and climbing on a stock pulley, that's a problem in my eyes.
Also, if it was efficient, people wouldn't be trying to change heat exchangers and find different ways to improve their aftercooling system.
Also, if it was efficient, people wouldn't be trying to change heat exchangers and find different ways to improve their aftercooling system.
Turbo will see the same type of IAT2 temps. NO INTERCOOLER/AFTERCOOLER, etc (short of maybe people spraying or running dry ice boxes) can drop air temps below ambient, not even too ambient. So to think that turbo cars don't see intake temps in excess of 100 degrees is assinine
Also, overspinning the M62 is another issue all together. Runnin the 2.5" pulley is def. gonna jump the IAT temps up a notch with the blower spinning past its redline
10-16-2006, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by NJHK
I'm not an expert by far and I don't know as much as probably you do but I can atleast say that if you're average temperatures are exceeding 100 degrees and climbing on a stock pulley, that's a problem in my eyes.
Also, if it was efficient, people wouldn't be trying to change heat exchangers and find different ways to improve their aftercooling system.
Also, if it was efficient, people wouldn't be trying to change heat exchangers and find different ways to improve their aftercooling system.
No matter WHAT you do, your not going to stay under 100 in a WOT pull, I don't care if the heat exchanger is 95% effecient. The difference WITH and WITH OUT our heat exchanger is porbably around 100 degrees. A lot of people had thier IC pump wired backwards from the factory, resulting in a useless IC. it makes a HUGE differance, and is a lot more effecient than any other system
10-16-2006, 08:07 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by denny
O.k the turbo making more power and efficient then the supercharger has nothing to do with the intercooler we have (The laminova is actualy one of the best intercooler's).
10-16-2006, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 2K5SS/SC?
With the innovations in turbocharger technologies, I think it would be better to spend a little more money, and get fast spool with big boost. The 20G is old technology, thus the serious lag it will have with the 2.0L engine. I've already talked to one turbo company and picked out the perfect turbo (for what I want) with the fastest spool available in that series, and it's still capable of 400whp. It utilizes a common T-3 flange, and can be fitted with internal or external wastegates.
10-16-2006, 08:09 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by NoRemorse
effecient.. and MORE effeicent is the thing. Ihave an additional HE for MORE effeiecency, and more importantly MORE fluid capacity (about triple actually)
No matter WHAT you do, your not going to stay under 100 in a WOT pull, I don't care if the heat exchanger is 95% effecient. The difference WITH and WITH OUT our heat exchanger is porbably around 100 degrees. A lot of people had thier IC pump wired backwards from the factory, resulting in a useless IC. it makes a HUGE differance, and is a lot more effecient than any other system
No matter WHAT you do, your not going to stay under 100 in a WOT pull, I don't care if the heat exchanger is 95% effecient. The difference WITH and WITH OUT our heat exchanger is porbably around 100 degrees. A lot of people had thier IC pump wired backwards from the factory, resulting in a useless IC. it makes a HUGE differance, and is a lot more effecient than any other system
10-16-2006, 08:23 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by SS33
no offense, but
Turbo will see the same type of IAT2 temps. NO INTERCOOLER/AFTERCOOLER, etc (short of maybe people spraying or running dry ice boxes) can drop air temps below ambient, not even too ambient. So to think that turbo cars don't see intake temps in excess of 100 degrees is assinine
Also, overspinning the M62 is another issue all together. Runnin the 2.5" pulley is def. gonna jump the IAT temps up a notch with the blower spinning past its redline
Turbo will see the same type of IAT2 temps. NO INTERCOOLER/AFTERCOOLER, etc (short of maybe people spraying or running dry ice boxes) can drop air temps below ambient, not even too ambient. So to think that turbo cars don't see intake temps in excess of 100 degrees is assinine
Also, overspinning the M62 is another issue all together. Runnin the 2.5" pulley is def. gonna jump the IAT temps up a notch with the blower spinning past its redline
are you saying that people running turbo setups will see the same temps if they didn't run an intercooler?
Also, if effiencey isn't a problem, then why are people having heat issues and running much lower power gains than people who are turbocharged. I know cavaliers who are running low 13s and haven't blown a headgasket and there are guys out here who are just trying to break into 13s and have. Ryne with TVR was running a turbo setup (hahn kit) stock internals with no problems, making 12 second passes, producing over 300 HP through the crank with no issues.
I mean, I'm not trying to argue just trying to discuss. If there is something I'm missing, I'd like to know.
10-16-2006, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SwizzDSMSS
The Super 20G will have full spool by 3000rpms. Thats what I want, cause the car is going to redline like a DSM at 7400rpms.
10-16-2006, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by NJHK
Just clarifying,
are you saying that people running turbo setups will see the same temps if they didn't run an intercooler?
Also, if effiencey isn't a problem, then why are people having heat issues and running much lower power gains than people who are turbocharged. I know cavaliers who are running low 13s and haven't blown a headgasket and there are guys out here who are just trying to break into 13s and have. Ryne with TVR was running a turbo setup (hahn kit) stock internals with no problems, making 12 second passes, producing over 300 HP through the crank with no issues.
I mean, I'm not trying to argue just trying to discuss. If there is something I'm missing, I'd like to know.
are you saying that people running turbo setups will see the same temps if they didn't run an intercooler?
Also, if effiencey isn't a problem, then why are people having heat issues and running much lower power gains than people who are turbocharged. I know cavaliers who are running low 13s and haven't blown a headgasket and there are guys out here who are just trying to break into 13s and have. Ryne with TVR was running a turbo setup (hahn kit) stock internals with no problems, making 12 second passes, producing over 300 HP through the crank with no issues.
I mean, I'm not trying to argue just trying to discuss. If there is something I'm missing, I'd like to know.
I was saying whether you are talking about an air-to-air or air-to-water heat exchanger, neither can drop temps below ambient, and actually without a sprayer of some sort, only the air-to water could even come close (with an ice box). So I gan gurantee that Ryne or hyspsy or anyone else running a turbo J, was seeing well above 100 degree intake temps.
10-16-2006, 09:07 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by SS33
There are also cobalts making 12 second passes on stock internals making well over 300hp at the crank without this problem.
I was saying whether you are talking about an air-to-air or air-to-water heat exchanger, neither can drop temps below ambient, and actually without a sprayer of some sort, only the air-to water could even come close (with an ice box). So I gan gurantee that Ryne or hyspsy or anyone else running a turbo J, was seeing well above 100 degree intake temps.
I was saying whether you are talking about an air-to-air or air-to-water heat exchanger, neither can drop temps below ambient, and actually without a sprayer of some sort, only the air-to water could even come close (with an ice box). So I gan gurantee that Ryne or hyspsy or anyone else running a turbo J, was seeing well above 100 degree intake temps.
10-17-2006, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by p7x
I was thinking T3/T4 dont know what trim, typical i know but if it works why not use it. Iam going to slowly start studying turbo engines and gather knowledge that I will need to build my future setup.
The Garrett GT2871R from ATPTurbo with the .63A/R housing T3 4-bolt flange is what I would get. ATP also has special housings/adapters for internal/external preference as well. It's the fastest spooling turbo available that will push 350-400whp, and it's perfectly matched for our 2.0L engine. (I talked with ATP directly about it) I've been doing my homework needless to say.
There are several places that makes log style manifolds, and one place that has a equal length manifold with the T3 flange. Fab a TB adaptor, charge pipes, and downpipe. Get yourself some oil lines/fittings, bypass valve, 60lb injectors, and tune that sucker with HPT. Viola 350+ fast spooling whp! 
10-17-2006, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 2K5SS/SC?
That is a good place to start, but there is even better turbos than that out. Turbonetics has just put out their GT Killer series which has the latest and greatest technologies applied to them. Borg Warner has the S200 out which is pretty impressive as well.
The Garrett GT2871R from ATPTurbo with the .63A/R housing T3 4-bolt flange is what I would get. ATP also has special housings/adapters for internal/external preference as well. It's the fastest spooling turbo available that will push 350-400whp, and it's perfectly matched for our 2.0L engine. (I talked with ATP directly about it) I've been doing my homework needless to say. There are several places that makes log style manifolds, and one place that has a equal length manifold with the T3 flange. Fab a TB adaptor, charge pipes, and downpipe. Get yourself some oil lines/fittings, bypass valve, 60lb injectors, and tune that sucker with HPT. Viola 350+ fast spooling whp!
The Garrett GT2871R from ATPTurbo with the .63A/R housing T3 4-bolt flange is what I would get. ATP also has special housings/adapters for internal/external preference as well. It's the fastest spooling turbo available that will push 350-400whp, and it's perfectly matched for our 2.0L engine. (I talked with ATP directly about it) I've been doing my homework needless to say.
There are several places that makes log style manifolds, and one place that has a equal length manifold with the T3 flange. Fab a TB adaptor, charge pipes, and downpipe. Get yourself some oil lines/fittings, bypass valve, 60lb injectors, and tune that sucker with HPT. Viola 350+ fast spooling whp!