MSD Ignition on the LSJ help needed
04-06-2009, 11:51 PM
#27
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as stated in other threads people are having alot of issues with spark blowout at high psi levels and gapping plugs sub .030 is much less effective than simply fixing the root cause which is weak spark
we need to get this figured out
so someone must know how to get ahold of one of the gm race teams to try to get this figured out i know they use it
we need to get this figured out
so someone must know how to get ahold of one of the gm race teams to try to get this figured out i know they use it
in drag racing GM R work with pro drag teams that use stand alone etc etc.
oh. nowadays, GM R dont do nutin in drag road and drift anymore...much of anything...or less...you are on your own.
your TVS car dont need stand alone issue for spark blowout. You need....wait for it...drumroll.... a tuner....rimshot.
04-07-2009, 01:07 AM
#28
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gmr ran the standalones in the drag cars because they far exceeded the capacity the stock ecm could run by about 700hp.
they needed a cam/crack trigger combo, hence the use of the msd dizzy. which blows ass BTW
they needed a cam/crack trigger combo, hence the use of the msd dizzy. which blows ass BTW
04-07-2009, 02:08 PM
#29
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Well it can work off a DIS 4 I just need to figure out how, saying it isnt needed, is simply not productive in accomplishing this
so unless your going to pitch in with a wiring diagram or info dont post saying I dont need it, Im getting spark blowout therefore its needed gapping plugs sub .030 is not a good way of doing things, stock ignition also does not have multiple spark discharge below 3000 rpm or the ability to run a spark cut rev limiter (rather than the horrible fuel cut limiter) and a ignition kill switch
so unless your going to pitch in with a wiring diagram or info dont post saying I dont need it, Im getting spark blowout therefore its needed gapping plugs sub .030 is not a good way of doing things, stock ignition also does not have multiple spark discharge below 3000 rpm or the ability to run a spark cut rev limiter (rather than the horrible fuel cut limiter) and a ignition kill switch
04-07-2009, 03:01 PM
#30
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Well it can work off a DIS 4 I just need to figure out how, saying it isnt needed, is simply not productive in accomplishing this
so unless your going to pitch in with a wiring diagram or info dont post saying I dont need it, Im getting spark blowout therefore its needed gapping plugs sub .030 is not a good way of doing things, stock ignition also does not have multiple spark discharge below 3000 rpm or the ability to run a spark cut rev limiter (rather than the horrible fuel cut limiter) and a ignition kill switch
so unless your going to pitch in with a wiring diagram or info dont post saying I dont need it, Im getting spark blowout therefore its needed gapping plugs sub .030 is not a good way of doing things, stock ignition also does not have multiple spark discharge below 3000 rpm or the ability to run a spark cut rev limiter (rather than the horrible fuel cut limiter) and a ignition kill switch
And no, you wont get a wiring diagram to help you from any qualified person here unless perhaps they are selling you a stand alone ignition system.
At some point you have to understand that with in the context of helping people on the forum, there comes a point where you ask stuff that is either:
1. too much specialized information to have folks give of their time and experience for nothing ,
OR
2. ask for information about stuff that is totally not relevant to what equipment you have that costs way too much money, in which case the qualified folks with answers wont bother with you.
AND
3. MSD already replied to you:"The MEFi system is a stand alone engine management system. You will have to remove your old harness and run it by itself. It is a speed density only system, so the good part is that you get to remove your MAF out of the restriction equation.
I am going to guess that a custom harness is going to have to be made because of the lack of build numbers on the LSJ. Maybe MSD will come up with a stand alone system for the LNF using the MEfi 5 platform."
No offense intended, good luck in your quest to do something which costs way too much money for no real gain.
04-07-2009, 04:16 PM
#31
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I heard all this before 5 years ago with the L61, they said that couldnt be done either and I did and there was gains
i guess ill just need to do it myself again, maybe I should just keep everything to myself instead of sharing the info like last time also, since people dont want to be bothered and all
i guess ill just need to do it myself again, maybe I should just keep everything to myself instead of sharing the info like last time also, since people dont want to be bothered and all
04-07-2009, 04:51 PM
#32
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my plugs are gapped to .032 right now. zero spark blow out at 8k on the 2.75 ring. you are missing a vital table in there that will cure the issue you are having.
04-07-2009, 07:50 PM
#33
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04-07-2009, 08:08 PM
#35
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send money get answers. Or would you rather area47 tunes your car on welfare? Give me a break. THis is where clearly the sharing of information and need for folks to make a living crash into each other. This is the CSS net, not the freeloaders.net.
04-07-2009, 08:13 PM
#36
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So what you have to pay on this forum to get questions answered now? I'd perfer he not tune my car at all, but again that has absolutely nothing to do with the reason for this post.
What you need to understand is that I'm doing this for other reasons than spark blowout, that's a narrowly related issue but not my primary one for wanting to do this, if it was then yes I could understand just gapping the plugs would address that issue.
You come up with a way without using a MSD or any other aftermarket ignition box to get me two step launch control, multiple spark discharge below 3000rpm, replacing the fuel cut rev limiter with a spark cut rev limiter, better gas mileage and an ignition kill switch that I don't have to hack up the factory harness to do and I'm all ears, until then unless you have an answer on how to wire it up quit wasting my time.
qwikredline, You go ahead and keep paying others to do something your too stupid to learn but don't come into my posts trying to act like you know something.
"correction: all grand am koni cars /time attack etc run an ignition kill switch with a stock pcm..so that can vbe done, and no, i wont tell you how to do it and keep the pcm live."
You can have an ignition kill switch on any car, stock pcm has nothing to do with it
"And no, you wont get a wiring diagram to help you from any qualified person here unless perhaps they are selling you a stand alone ignition system."
It's not an OEM part so theres nobody that is "qualified" when it comes to doing something thats never been done
"At some point you have to understand that with in the context of helping people on the forum, there comes a point where you ask stuff that is either:"
"1. too much specialized information to have folks give of their time and experience for nothing ,"
Its about 10 wires, people post how to wire up a stereo which is far more complex, how is this any different?
"2. ask for information about stuff that is totally not relevant to what equipment you have that costs way too much money, in which case the qualified folks with answers wont bother with you."
If you don't have money your in the wrong hobby you worry about your finances, I'll worry about mine.
"3. MSD already replied to you:"The MEFi system is a stand alone engine management system. You will have to remove your old harness and run it by itself. It is a speed density only system, so the good part is that you get to remove your MAF out of the restriction equation.
I am going to guess that a custom harness is going to have to be made because of the lack of build numbers on the LSJ. Maybe MSD will come up with a stand alone system for the LNF using the MEfi 5 platform."
That thread has absolutely nothing to do do with this discussion, if you knew the difference between a engine management system and an ignition system you would understand how stupid you sound right now. Please stop posting in this thread you are wasting my time.
What you need to understand is that I'm doing this for other reasons than spark blowout, that's a narrowly related issue but not my primary one for wanting to do this, if it was then yes I could understand just gapping the plugs would address that issue.
You come up with a way without using a MSD or any other aftermarket ignition box to get me two step launch control, multiple spark discharge below 3000rpm, replacing the fuel cut rev limiter with a spark cut rev limiter, better gas mileage and an ignition kill switch that I don't have to hack up the factory harness to do and I'm all ears, until then unless you have an answer on how to wire it up quit wasting my time.
qwikredline, You go ahead and keep paying others to do something your too stupid to learn but don't come into my posts trying to act like you know something.
"correction: all grand am koni cars /time attack etc run an ignition kill switch with a stock pcm..so that can vbe done, and no, i wont tell you how to do it and keep the pcm live."
You can have an ignition kill switch on any car, stock pcm has nothing to do with it
"And no, you wont get a wiring diagram to help you from any qualified person here unless perhaps they are selling you a stand alone ignition system."
It's not an OEM part so theres nobody that is "qualified" when it comes to doing something thats never been done
"At some point you have to understand that with in the context of helping people on the forum, there comes a point where you ask stuff that is either:"
"1. too much specialized information to have folks give of their time and experience for nothing ,"
Its about 10 wires, people post how to wire up a stereo which is far more complex, how is this any different?
"2. ask for information about stuff that is totally not relevant to what equipment you have that costs way too much money, in which case the qualified folks with answers wont bother with you."
If you don't have money your in the wrong hobby you worry about your finances, I'll worry about mine.
"3. MSD already replied to you:"The MEFi system is a stand alone engine management system. You will have to remove your old harness and run it by itself. It is a speed density only system, so the good part is that you get to remove your MAF out of the restriction equation.
I am going to guess that a custom harness is going to have to be made because of the lack of build numbers on the LSJ. Maybe MSD will come up with a stand alone system for the LNF using the MEfi 5 platform."
That thread has absolutely nothing to do do with this discussion, if you knew the difference between a engine management system and an ignition system you would understand how stupid you sound right now. Please stop posting in this thread you are wasting my time.
04-07-2009, 08:14 PM
#37
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the plug gap on the shop honda's pushing over 800 to the tire is .018. no part throttle fun there
Last edited by Area47; 04-07-2009 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
04-07-2009, 08:22 PM
#38
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So what you have to pay on this forum to get questions answered now? I'd perfer he not tune my car at all, but again that has absolutely nothing to do with the reason for this post.
What you need to understand is that I'm doing this for other reasons than spark blowout, that's a narrowly related issue but not my primary one for wanting to do this, if it was then yes I could understand just gapping the plugs would address that issue.
You come up with a way without using a MSD or any other aftermarket ignition box to get me two step launch control, multiple spark discharge below 3000rpm, replacing the fuel cut rev limiter with a spark cut rev limiter, better gas mileage and an ignition kill switch that I don't have to hack up the factory harness to do and I'm all ears, until then unless you have an answer on how to wire it up quit wasting my time.
qwikredline, You go ahead and keep paying others to do something your too stupid to learn but don't come into my posts trying to act like you know something.
What you need to understand is that I'm doing this for other reasons than spark blowout, that's a narrowly related issue but not my primary one for wanting to do this, if it was then yes I could understand just gapping the plugs would address that issue.
You come up with a way without using a MSD or any other aftermarket ignition box to get me two step launch control, multiple spark discharge below 3000rpm, replacing the fuel cut rev limiter with a spark cut rev limiter, better gas mileage and an ignition kill switch that I don't have to hack up the factory harness to do and I'm all ears, until then unless you have an answer on how to wire it up quit wasting my time.
qwikredline, You go ahead and keep paying others to do something your too stupid to learn but don't come into my posts trying to act like you know something.
04-07-2009, 08:42 PM
#39
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MSD set me straight LOL wow. Too bad that has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about, do you even know what the MEFI is? I don't need a diagram for an ignition kill switch.
04-08-2009, 01:28 AM
#40
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here this might be as of some help i dont know its msd **** on an ecotec
http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4485
http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4485
04-08-2009, 09:38 AM
#41
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thats for a L61, completely different setup on those
So I think I have it mostly figured out. I think I may decide to go with the AEM twin fire instead and the AEM pencil coils which are these products here
http://www.aempower.com/images/produ...cil%20Coil.pdf
http://www.tunertools.com/prodimages...structions.pdf
Now of the 4 wires going into the coil what is this low reference, I'm thinking it may be a 5v digital signal from the PCM for dwell control or an igniter? I'm concerned about just ignoring it. I know that I do have a spark dwell table in HP tuners.
Concerning the other 3 wires on the stock coil connectors I'm not sure which one is the trigger wire if I had to guess the IC1,2,3,4 wire?
Also the AEM pencil coils seem to only have 2 wires on each just a positive and a negative.
So if I'm right here out from the stock coil on plug ignition harness the only connection would be the IC control wire for each cylinder going into the AEM or MSD box as the trigger wire and then the coil + and - out from the ignition box into each coil for each channel. So the ignition voltage and ground from the stock harness as well as the low reference arent connected to anything at all since they are essentially bypassed?
So I think I have it mostly figured out. I think I may decide to go with the AEM twin fire instead and the AEM pencil coils which are these products here
http://www.aempower.com/images/produ...cil%20Coil.pdf
http://www.tunertools.com/prodimages...structions.pdf
Now of the 4 wires going into the coil what is this low reference, I'm thinking it may be a 5v digital signal from the PCM for dwell control or an igniter? I'm concerned about just ignoring it. I know that I do have a spark dwell table in HP tuners.
Concerning the other 3 wires on the stock coil connectors I'm not sure which one is the trigger wire if I had to guess the IC1,2,3,4 wire?
Also the AEM pencil coils seem to only have 2 wires on each just a positive and a negative.
So if I'm right here out from the stock coil on plug ignition harness the only connection would be the IC control wire for each cylinder going into the AEM or MSD box as the trigger wire and then the coil + and - out from the ignition box into each coil for each channel. So the ignition voltage and ground from the stock harness as well as the low reference arent connected to anything at all since they are essentially bypassed?
Last edited by Rodimus_Prime; 04-08-2009 at 09:52 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
04-08-2009, 10:22 AM
#42
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Rodimus Prime...Just keep in mind that the one of the main purposes of the MSD box is to "amplify" the ingnition voltage. All the MSD boxes do is intercept signals, similar to an AEM F/IC controller. Just keep that in mind while you are thinking about wiring ur setup, it truely isn't as difficult as you might be thinking it is, We have done it here at the shop for a local SCCA customer here in mass with an ss/sc.
you can use the blaster coil setup,but the factory COP setup will handle the extra voltage no prob from the msd and can be used, also the AEM COP's will work OR the Honda CBR motorcyle COP setup will work as well. Now the setups on the GM racecars like our own race car is a different setup then what you would need to do on your car. We run the MSD Dist. off the cam which requires us to have to have a separate coil, and setup on a system like that is different, where a crank trigger etc is need, which will not be on your car.
Again remember, the msd is just amplifying and intercepting signals that are already being sent to your factory coils. And the factory coils will support the extra voltage being sent from the MSD. Just trying give a few tips without giving away how exactly to do it...as that would require an appointment at the shop
Hope this helps lead you down the path you are seaking.
you can use the blaster coil setup,but the factory COP setup will handle the extra voltage no prob from the msd and can be used, also the AEM COP's will work OR the Honda CBR motorcyle COP setup will work as well. Now the setups on the GM racecars like our own race car is a different setup then what you would need to do on your car. We run the MSD Dist. off the cam which requires us to have to have a separate coil, and setup on a system like that is different, where a crank trigger etc is need, which will not be on your car.
Again remember, the msd is just amplifying and intercepting signals that are already being sent to your factory coils. And the factory coils will support the extra voltage being sent from the MSD. Just trying give a few tips without giving away how exactly to do it...as that would require an appointment at the shop
Hope this helps lead you down the path you are seaking.
04-08-2009, 10:45 AM
#43
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so in your experience with the customer that has had it, theres been no issues?
if I can at least narrow down what parts I need thats a start
so either a msd dis4 or aem twin fire box
aem pencil coils
The rest is just wiring somehow, someway?
if I can at least narrow down what parts I need thats a start
so either a msd dis4 or aem twin fire box
aem pencil coils
The rest is just wiring somehow, someway?
04-08-2009, 11:32 AM
#44
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you are correct on your parts lists, the remainder is in the wiring...and no, we have had no issues with our customers car, the car is track raced 2-3 weekends a month when the season here in New England is going... and no ignition issues to date.
04-08-2009, 12:32 PM
#45
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Are they still running on stock coils or did they go to aftermarket? I used stock for a little while with my L61 granted its different but they only lasted about 6 months and then they would die, the msd coils worked a bit better so I have my doubts about the longevity of the stock ones.