MSD ignition now possible on Ecotecs with coil on plug?
 

A few years back I made up a how to site on how to wire an MSD DIS 2 into a waste spark coil pack style ecotec L61, that doesnt transfer over to the 2.0/2.4 or the 07+ 2.2 Ecos

The only way I could think of hooking one up would be with a MSD DIS 4 but appears MSD has just released a part that may be able to make this happen http://www.msdignition.com/2007/light.html

Its called the MSD-6304 Ive been trying to find a PDF of the instructions but so far no luck, also does anyone have some detailed information on the igntion wiring or pinouts on the ICM perhaps from a GM shop manual, thats what I used to create the L61 system.

I have an old DIS 2 laying in my garage from my eco I had on my cavalier and I want to give this a shot but im missing some critical info

I was just checking that out today in my summit catalog. I'll probably be ordering that whole setup soon. But gonna need a dis-4, 4 coils, wires, and that msd 6304 signal converter. 2 step rev limit would be fun

HAHA me too my summit catolog came in yesterday!

Actually you should be able to do it with the DIS2 or DIS4, I have some experience with MSDs on Ecotecs so I'm willing to help out everyone once I crack this for good

I dont know to much about MSD ignitions.
Maybe you could give us a bit of a lamans rundown of what it changes?
what makes it better than stock?
what we can expect from doing this?


Id sure love to learn :)

Basically its like hooking in an amp to car speakers instead of running them off the head unit

Its a stronger spark, effects from this include a slight power increase and the real benefit is the added gas mileage which on my supercharged L61 setup I was able to get 37 MPG (before HP tuners)

You can also add a spark cut rev limiter and theres a tach output on it as well, theres a number of nice things about it, its especially helpful on really high boost setups, you can actually open up your plug gap without risk of blowing out the spark

It's definitely a stronger spark, but it's more than just that. MSD stands for multiple spark discharge. With an MSD box hooked up to your ignition system, it delivers a series of short, hotter sparks on each combustion stroke. So, you get a much more complete burn. Less unburned fuel means more efficiency, which means better mileage. You'll never foul out a plug again when you put an MSD on your car. Like Rodimus said, you will no longer have to worry about blowing out your spark, because now you have multiple sparks. I'm definitely interested in what you come up with for our rides, I've never messed with an MSD on a distributorless ignition. Please keep this updated!

subscribed. Make it work man!

does anyone know that vendor that had the shop manuals I saw it the other day

Ok ppl i need to know some things for this to happen

First off I need some wiring diagrams of the ignition harness pinouts if anyone has them, I took a peek today it looks like each coil has 4 wires and each of the 4 contains a purple wire and a red with black stripe the other 2 wires are a different color on each cylinder

Also does this car have an ICM, or is it just run straight off the PCM, I couldnt seem to find any module or trace the wires back on the drivers side of the motor

Also am I correct in the fact that the power steering isnt run off the intake cam like the L61 is, if thats the case we may be able to use the msd ecotec distributor, but then that would mean no coil on plug ignition which im not sure if theres still a benefit or not, if there isnt one and just the DIS box and the MSD 6304 part are needed what kinda coil or coils should be used for this?

Yes, the power steering in the cobalt is electric, not hydraulic

interesting.....

Bump for updates and news of whats going on.

Never saw this thread, so I'm a little late chiming in but, I can provide any wiring diagrams or ignition info that would be needed. I thought about going this route as well but return style fuel system is taking priority over this right now.

I need to know what colors represent what on all 4 wires on each of the coils

Does the car have an ICM or is it run straight off the PCM?

I haven't seen this thread either. How did I miss it? I knew MSD was working on something, but I didn't realize it was done. Interesting.

^^^x2

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IGNITION COIL/MODULE

Each ignition coil/module has the following circuits:


An ignition voltage circuit
A ground
An ignition control (IC) circuit
A low reference circuit
The PCM controls the individual coils by transmitting timing pulses on the IC circuit of each ignition coil/module to enable a spark event.

The spark plugs are connected to each coil by a short boot. The boot contains a spring that conducts the spark energy from the coil to the spark plug. The spark plug electrode is tipped with platinum for long wear and higher efficiency.

Above info is for a 2.0.

Can you get us the Pin out on the LS1 and or Truck coils ?
I've had 2 seperate cases of bad coils already. Never had one problem with the Ls1 coils.
I would think the Ls1 coils would have more output aswell.

Hey, I just noticed these guys sell an MSD ignition for the Cobalt - maybe they know how to install one?

http://www.modernperformance.com/gm/...rcharged.shtml

This guys seems to know what's going on:
http://www.livewirerodimus.com/Ecotec/msd.html

Well that website is sellling a DIS 2 and every reference is mentioning a Neon not to mention they have no pics of one installed in a cobalt, they also dont mention the fact you need upgraded msd coils, Ive tried contacting MSD in the past and they were pretty clueless

Livewirerodimus is me and that web page was developed for an L61 based setup, while much of it applies its still a different animal than the LSJ, but 07+ L61s now use the coil on plug so its time to revisit this subject and update the process. For the most part the 4 ecotec engines all share the same type of ignition system so once the way is found its beneficial on many different platforms

Witt awesome that is exactly what I was looking for, my thoughts exactly on the LS1 coils I know MSD sells the Ls1 coils individually for about 60 each as well as another coil on plug thats generic application

Subscribed and lets doit!

The product in this thread is the necessary adapter for our compression sense timing systems that will allow a DIS-2 or 4 to be used.

I think the saturn cam sync generator is also needed to fake a CMP signal to the PCM on a 2.2.

Subscribed...

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Above diagram is from a 2002 LS1 Camaro.

^^^^ awesome looks like the LS1 MSD coils may work, only potential issue is the size and fitment

You'll need to run a Plug Wire as it just doesn't drop in the hole like the Stock coils.
Msd Wires p/n 32769

Alright so i email modern performance regarding that kit and heres what i sent and the reply:
So i was looking at your website and found the MSD DIS-2 Ignition System in the cobalt section and i was wondering if it will work for the cobalt because it said its for the neon.
reply:
That’s a good question, haven’t heard anyone installing one on the cobalt. Give MSD a call and see what they say. (915) 857-5200

Anyways so Rodimus any progress with installation?

Well I know it can be done because all the Gm race teams use it, they use a digital 7 actually but the wiring really isnt any different, ive looked over the build books and it seems for the coil on plug installations they used Honda CBR1000 Denso Coils, not sure where to find those at

Really at this point im kinda stuck until I get this MSD6304 part and a DIS4 box, about 600 in parts, I have a DIS 2 box but I dont see how that will work unless it converts the system to a waste spark type

keepin an eye on this. since my stock ignition is gonna need to go very soon

MSD actually makes a cam signal generator as an intergral part of their distributor ignition system. I wish they would make it as a just a separate component.

cam signal isnt an issue like it is in the L61 since theres a seperate signal for that

Im getting be giving an update soon becuase i gave the MSD guys some info and they are looking into it. I just got an email asking me what year the cobalt is. So ill update once i get another email and ill post up what i sent them and everything.

My understanding is you have to use the DIS4 for a 4 cylinder direct fire setup. I don't quite understand how the two part numbers you linked in your original post would apply to an ecotec. I think I'm lost on that one.
I agree, I think Dan's turbo setup is gonna start bordering on the stock ignition's capacity. You'll more than likely be in the same boat.

Isn't part number 8914 the one you would want to use? I'm pretty sure thats what keeps the SES light away when you convert an 01-06 L61 to MSD. Standalone component that simulates the CMP (camout) signal to the PCM when you eliminate the ignition control module.

The msd part i mentioned in the very first post of this thread is needed for a dis 4 with coil on plug

The 8914 yes is for L61 cam signal, has no relevance to this discussion about LSJ and isnt needed

Thats where you lost me. I see no reason to need that. The DIS 4 should interface directly to the factory trigger wires and using MSD coils to replace the stockers.

I understand that. I replied to post #22 which is why I originally quoted it.

ill have to see about getting the msd4 box soon, pricey piece they used to be 350 now are 500 bucks just in the past 2 years

Yeah too expensive for the time being. I have too much on my plate right now, but if you need anything else as far as diagrams go, lemme know.

well i got an update from MSD *sigh*:
Thank you for you interest in our products. Unfortunately we do not manufacture the ignition product you are looking for at this time. We have several projects in the works right now; moreover, try checking back with us in several months to see if we have more information at that time.

HAHAH nice response , at least they responded thats further than I got with them 2 years ago when I was working with the L61.

I just got paid today so we shall see what happens....:)

im working on 2 other projects at the moment and then ill get on this, Im finishing up some stereo stuff then its wideband and Dual Aeroforce time and then calibrations