Finally got it situated over the last week (I had the 80's in forever on gas, put in E85 on sunday and have tuned about every night since). Went to the dyno today and I was truly in shock. M-Dub (1badblueberry) was also there and pointed out numerous ways I can improve my tune/ mods to get my car even meaner.

Last year-

Mods:
K&N typhoon
2.8" pulley
zzp heat exchanger
Siemens 60 ib/hr
Tune reaching 17-18* timing

243hp/ 231 tq


Today, same dyno-

Mods:
K&N typhoon
2.8'' pulley
zzp heat exchanger
Siemens 80 ib/hr injectors
zzp header/ dp with 2.5" outlet
Tune



289 hp/ 262 tq uncorrected

Red (first)- 22-25 * of timing past 6k, 0 knock retard IAT2 ~100-130 throughout the pull
Green (Second)- 24-27* of timing past 6k, 0 knock retard IAT2 ~127-142 throughout pull
Blue (Last)- 23-26* of timing past 6k, 0 knock retard IAT2~ 129-154 throughout pull

Could I have broken 300? Probably

Was I expecting nearly this much after e85 or ready for it? No

I'm very happy with my results and have to rethink my whole plan for future mods on my car (I thought I was done, lol). This was running a bit rich, with room for a couple more degrees of timing, with the most minimal cooling mod out there, stock cat back, and a ***** pulley (I have a 2.6 sitting on my desk collecting dust...).

Thanks to all the awesome people in this community who helped me with my car throughout the last couple years and now recently for switching.

SCblkRL
mrphoto103
M-dub (1badblueberry)
Scott.Florschuetz
qwikredline

and especially GMredline for answering many questions and taking the jump for all of us who have converted to E85 since.

 

wow, that's a helluva increase. Could you not ever run that much timing before on regular gas?

 

get a full 3" exhaust and option b or a dual pass. and i could see you hitting close to 300 uncorrected. what was it corrected? and the tune isn't done yet is it?

45/31 hahah

 

negatory, on 93 I was lucky to see 18*, usually a bit less depending on intake temp. Generally when I tried to increase it it was kr city

I'll only be running e85 for future dynos and drag racing, otherwise I won't need a 3" with gas. I'm considering my options right now but biggest would be 2.75''.

I may not mess with the listed cooling mods and go right to water injection to keep the IAT's in check.

Not corrected

And I have soooooooo much I can do to the tune it isn't even funny. The midrange was barely touched and only in the middle of me dynoing, with much more room to improve.

 

Nice numbers! wish we had it around here.

 

Very Impressive #'s man

 

you'll still pick up some power from going 3".

 

Man thats awesome! I wish we had a dyno here, i would love to see what I lay down with a 2.7, vibrant header and dp, and 3" catback with my 3" intake. I love E85

I would have to agree, big thanks to Ebristol for helping us E85 converters, and shaunmcdee for tuning help!

Ok end threadjack

Now go hit up the track!

 

Nice numbers. Can't wait till I get my E85 in and tune done. That was a big increase and not expected at all. Good job

 

God that is awesome. I'm so tempted, but I do A LOT of highway driving...

What kind of highway gas mileage are you getting?

 

pretty crappy mileage, I haven't tried improving it with the tune but honestly I may be getting 20 mpg... you can just about watch the gas gauge go down.

 

whats the aim point for AFR's on E85?
and whats the SAE corrected HP?

 

6.9 - 8.4 on E85 for max power.

 

Ugh I hate hearing that I ran e85 in my neon a few years ago, and that got shitty gas mileage, but the tune wasn't spot on either...

Maybe I'll convert when I get a raise so I can afford the shitty gas mileage lol

Still very impressive gains though, I love the amount of timing you can run with it!!

 

My car dropped about 4-5mpg when I switched. In the cold weather on 91 I would get 22-23mpg and on E I'm at about 18-19mpg all city. Its nice only having to pay $25 to fill up from empty though

 

Im going to do e85. Do you think you will need a boost reference system with those 80's anytime soon? Whats the duty cycles at?

 

i have been doing some planning and collecting parts for my build but this maybe my next mod!!!

 

You won't need a boost referenced fuel system on the M62. Depending on setup I would think when you get to the 2.9 and 2.8" pulleys on the TVS fuel delivery will become a problem, but I don't know from experience so maybe someone who does will chime in.

 

Not sure about the corrected numbers, from my understanding it could go up or down though.

E-85 requires the same lambda values as gasoline. A wideband will read these lambda values then multiply it by the stoich value for the fuel. Because my wideband only reports a/f for gasoline, it multiplies it by 14.7. Basically even though the actual ratio is different, you're still looking for 14.7 cruising/ part throttle and 11.8 wot with a gasoline wideband.

better explained in relation to zzp's a/f readouts of 12.1:

Q: i'm confused. is that reading a 12.1 for pump gas, or a 12.1 for e85... 12.1 for pump on e85 is a serious lean condition.

A:It is the lambda converted to a gasoline stoichiometric readout, which coincidentally is the correct lambda for ethanol (just not reported that way).



so if you were running on gasoline at 12 AFR the lambda would be

λ=12/14.7(the stoichiometric ratio for gasoline)=.816

running ethanol at 7.968 (which zzp did) the lambda would be

λ=7.968/9.765 (the stoichiometric ratio for e85)=.816 (coincidentally the same lambda as running gas at 12)

The readout multiplies lambda by the stoichiometric AFR of the fuel burned to give the readout we're used to and because it was still set for gasoline, it multiplied it by 14.7 and got the 12

word, timing> airflow... I'm sure I could pull a couple more mpg's out of it.

Just do what I plan on doing and have a gas tune/ e85 tune then switch when you want to change fuel.

Probably not. I'll only get more airflow (requiring more fuel) when I switch to my 2.6 pulley. At that point I'll lower my redline to 6,500 rpm and focus on torque, spinning the blower any higher would have negative returns.

IDC was at 90% at 7k, pulse width at 15.6 the highest of the three runs.

 

$25 to fill up? How much is e85 where you're at?

 

$2.24 where i fill up. Most expensive in town is $2.35

 

this makes me want to tune on e85 on thee turbo set up

 

There seems to be lots of confusion on how you need to understand your air/fuel ratios on your wideband with E-85. Here is a better explanation.


I have the 80's, but my tune is set for 60's flow rate. Running E-85 requires about 30% more fuel than gasoline, which works out perfectly because the 80's are 30% more than the 60's. So when I converted my fuel trims were fairly accurate. I still had to adjust the MAF but everything else fuel wise (except PE) was basically fine. The pcm is still instating the same pulse widths it did for the 60's on gas, it just happens to be 30% more fuel injected in those times because of the injector size (again perfect because of the 30% more fuel requirement.

As far as reading the wideband, ignore 14.7 and the air fuel ratios for now just focus on lambdas. lambda is (AFR)/ (stoich AFR). So, if lambda was one, the actual AFR would be the same as the stoichiometric AFR (Stoichiometric means the ratio of fuel to air for the two to completely react, i.e 14.7 parts of air reacts with one part of gasoline to be entirely converted to CO2 and H2O).

Cruising around you want a lambda of one, this is true for gas and E85 because you want optimum fuel economy (a full burn and reaction to CO2 and H2O).

At WOT you want a richer lambda of ~.816, again for gas and E-85 the lambda is the same.

A wideband converts the lambda value it senses to a/f for the fuel it is set to by multiplying by the stoichiometric AFR (Do some algebra on the lambda equation and you get lambda X stoich AFR= actual AFR, what it displays on the readout). For example, at WOT a gas wideband would sense .816 as the lambda value and multiply it by 14.7 giving you an actual ratio of 12. Because this lambda value is the same for E85, the gas wideband still multiplies it by gasoline stoich afr of 14.7 (it doesn't know the difference between fuels) and displays an actual afr of 12.

In a nutshell, while the actual afr's are quite different between the fuels, aim for the same numbers on a gasoline wideband.

 

Makes sense to me, thanks for the info

 

^good way of putting it. I see you did the same thing I did by using the 60's flow rate on 80's