As the title suggests, I'm looking for pros and cons to deleting the stock H/E and just using a new H/E that is not sandwiched inbetween a hot radiator, and would allow me to run a bleeder line easier than my damn stocker too lol (redline is different than balt, not nearly as much room there). I have seen on RLF one person in particular running a cobra h/e by itself with a cobra coolant resivour and he was seeing around the same temps as with the stocker.

We all know the cobra is a smaller, single pass H/E.
The one I'm looking at in particular now is the ZZP h/e they just came out with for the redlines. 1.8L coolant capacity, and I would assume it's dual pass with the enter and exits being on the same side.

Discuss. Suggest. Thanks!

 

There are 5035946578 threads about this. It's gonna turn into one person likes this way and another person likes that way.

 

I am looking for pure information that can be backed up with logs and actual numbers.

 

i heard that just running the new one without the stock on it brings cooler temps...lsjwannabe tested this. anyways i run both new and stock so idk its kinda up to you..and the difference wasnt that big i believe

yea pm lsjwannabe about it

 

You got any IAT's to share at all?

 

nope but i kno he does

 

Interesting I'll pm him and see what he possibly could share.. anyone that's got info is encouraged to share here also though.

 

like stated, there have been 4 different very long debates in threads about this topic in the last month alone... i dont feel like going into it again

 

link me to said threads? I can't seem to find them probably not using the correct keywords in the search but I come up with random bs threads.

 

assume nothing.

 

Some ppl will tell you more coolant=better cooling and others will say the stock one does not cool it because of position and blah blah blah. Is there a big difference between the two setups. IMO prolly not. I would run just an aftermarket one but that's me. Like said above, pm LSJWannabe....he's the one I always bother when I need help about something.

 

Are you saying that it's not john?
I will be sure to clarify before any purchase (I tend to analyze everything over-obsessively before dropping the $$ on it).
But it would make sense to me that it is since it would have to go over, up, and back over again to reach the exit, guess I just answered my own question .

PM'd wannabe, I was looking at a fellow RL'ers logs on RLF, he is running the cobra h/e only like said before and after a 132mph wot pull he was only hitting 130 some IAT2's, pretty impressive IMO especially for only a single pass. Looking to him to see what temps this was done in.
Looking to me like aftermarket should be lined up to be FTW.

 

You could always try both setups and record the data. It's not gonna cost you any extra money, just a lil bit of time

 

Part of the reason for me wanting to do the aftermarket only is also because it'll make it easier on me installing (I'm doing all my cooling at once, well besides meth).
So i'll be doing a h/e, dual pass endplate, and a custom option B tank, not just a h/e.
I will post up data if this is the route I decide to go though, judging from digging through this thread on RLF and a few others I'm thinking this could work out very well..

 

I ran a cobra and stock as well as dual pass on my old SC setup and when I was turbo with the stock manifold. WIth the SC I never saw more than 140* and I could run 23* of timing w/o meth. The TC i never saw more than 130*.

I am still using bother for my water to air intercooler I am running now.

 

Thanks for the opinions those who shared or helped. According to lsj I was right in my assumption and once I undergo this I'll definatley add my data to the mix also.

 

IN a dual pass radiator,water flows into the left or right side and only goes down half of the radiator then back up on the otherside; this is a much more efficient way to use the same sized radiator space. If this is the way the core is built, its a dual pass. Radiator cores are purchased i dont know of any aftermarket source that makes their own cores....

 

lol there's one...

 

We don't make our own cores, but we do make the end tanks which is what determines if it's single or dual pass. Our HE is dual pass but mostly for the sake of convience on the hose connections. Personally I think a single pass would cool better.

I fail to see how flowing the coolant twice as fast twice as far cools more than flowing the coolant 1/2 as fast 1/2 as far. To me it's the same thing, perhaps someone could explain. The downsid of dual pass is that the hot coolant is touching the aluminum which has cooled collant on the other side. To me this is why dual pass is inferior but I haven't tested, that's just my thought process.

 

My noob thought process is that dual pass h/e is > because the coolant is making 2 passes through the h/e, exposing it to the airflow for 2 times the length as a single pass, thus helping it to cool down more. You make mention of flowing twice as fast, not an expert, but I would think unless you switched to a pump with a higher flow rate that the coolant would flow at the same rate? Single pass, the coolant goes over and out so quick that the coolant in my theory doesn't have the ample exposure to the air flowing through the fins to cool down more. Like I said, no expert here, just a hunch.

 

hmmmm good thread i wanna see someones IAT2 to prove this. if dual really dose helps

 

You're not taking the entire situation into account. in talking about exposure time to air, it's the same in single or dual pass. The pump is what determines flow rate and that doesn't change. The coolant is in the radiator for the same amount of time regardless of whether it's single or dual pass.

If the pump is flowing 4GPM and the radiator hold 1 gallon, then the fluid will be in the radiator for 15 seconds regardless of whether it's single or dual pass. In the above scenereo if it's dual pass the coolant has to flow double the speed through the radiator to move at 4GPM. In single pass the coolant moves slower. In dual pass the inlet coolant (hottest) is touching the outlet coolant (coolest) and separated only by a thin piece of aluminum making the radiator inefficient.

Another example. Let's say you have two radiators, each is 6" high, 2" thick and 12" wide. Coolant flows into one and then the next. Or are you better off flowing 1/2 the coolant into one and 1/2 the coolant into the other? It's the same. In both cases the coolant is exposed to the same amount of cool time in 'a' radiator and your total core area, which is doing the cooling, has not changed.

now take the above two radiators can weld the outlet to the inlet. See the problem? After the water is cooled, it will be heated again by the incoming hot water because the tanks would be touching.
All the HE's on the market are dual pass so we'd have to build one custom to measure if there is a difference. I'll put one of our engineers on it when I get a chance I guess because I'm curious.

 

Not when the car is sitting still like at a stop light or the staging lane at the track.

If you ran a FMIC without the stock HE, the FMIC would heat soak like a mo fo at a stand still. Reason being is that it does not get the cooling benefits from the stock fans.

I found that with running a Cobra HE or the CX racing HE that my iat2 temps would climb faster at a dead stop compared to just running the stock HE.

DTCD.

Start your car and make sure the cooling fans are running. Hold your hand against the stock radiator. You will feel the air being pulled past your hand. Now hold your hand out 6-8 inches away from the radiator. Nothing.

Originally ,with my CX racing dual pass HE I tried mounting it as close to the stock radiator as possible so it would also benefit from the stock cooling fans. I don't have a pic of it in my photobucket but I had the CX racing he mounted 1/8" away from my stock radiator. At a dead stop I noticed that my IAT2 temps did not raise as fast. So that was a good thing.

BUT

With having the CX racing HE mounted so close to the stock radiator it was blocking the air pushed into the engine bay by the air dam. So while I was moving my car would run hotter.

Pardon my paint...

Here is a side view from the drivers side of the car of the LSJ cooling system

Stock SetupxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxCX HE too closexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxProper


Since there was no easy way to move the air dam toward the front of the car I moved the CX HE away from the stock radiator to allow the cool air to flow up the radiator.


Bottom line
The only way I would consider running a FMIC all by itself is if you added additional cooling fans that attached directly to FMIC. To make sure that the HE is being cooled at a stand still. Or I recommend running the FMIC and Stock HE in series.

 

I'm not being a dick or trying to argue with you, moreso playing devils advocate if you will here. But if you add a dual pass h/e, isn't that increasing the amount of coolant that is held in the h/e at any given time? You say what I surmized also, the pump is still pushing the same amount of coolant no matter what. In this case, if the dual pass is holding more coolant than a single pass (I assume it would since there is more space to fill than a single pass, theroretically it should almost 2 times the coolant in the dual pass over the single?). This would mean that more coolant is exposed to more airflow for more time in a dual pass over a single pass. Like I said, not being a dick, just playing DA to see if my theory is flawed and I'm not fully understanding the process.

I will be doing this in sync with an option b tank and the dual pass endplate, so that would help give better cooling characteristics to help when air is not flowing through the h/e I would think?

 

If if the dual pass HE is the same size as a single pass there would be no difference in the quantity.

But to his point.

I think the benefit of running a dual pass HE over a single pass HE is the fact that you are cooling less coolant per pass. Is it easier to cool 1 gallon of coolant over 24" or .5 gallon of coolant over 48"?

Yes. But you are taking two steps forward and one step back.