stock rings on diamond pistons?
09-01-2008, 12:40 AM
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stock rings on diamond pistons?
has anyone gone with the diamond pistons and used the stock ring set? will it work? i know you can re-use em according to GM build book but i dont know with what pistons?
another question has anyone got or used diamonds and not bought either coating top or sides?
i dont see a mandatory absolute need for these... so why pay 225 more for these coatings?
i have built many sbc engines in the past using forged aluminum piston's but not till recently did i ever buy some with coatings and i only got side coatings on some speed pro pistons simply because they came with em and were affordable at the same time...
and were are guys buying from... intense or turbo tech racing?
another question has anyone got or used diamonds and not bought either coating top or sides?
i dont see a mandatory absolute need for these... so why pay 225 more for these coatings?
i have built many sbc engines in the past using forged aluminum piston's but not till recently did i ever buy some with coatings and i only got side coatings on some speed pro pistons simply because they came with em and were affordable at the same time...
and were are guys buying from... intense or turbo tech racing?
09-01-2008, 12:49 AM
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any advice for a cop, hold the spit
that was a j/k- im a DI at MCRD san diego- so dont find me and fine me.
As a former jet engine mech and tech, the coating they put on the aluminum will actually give you more operating hours on the metal. I know that on our treated and or coated metals they had different wear qualities due to the change in surface and heat soak. I would ask the manufacturer what the coating was and then research its qualities yourself
that was a j/k- im a DI at MCRD san diego- so dont find me and fine me.
As a former jet engine mech and tech, the coating they put on the aluminum will actually give you more operating hours on the metal. I know that on our treated and or coated metals they had different wear qualities due to the change in surface and heat soak. I would ask the manufacturer what the coating was and then research its qualities yourself
09-01-2008, 01:11 AM
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im more wondering about the rings, and if anyone ran the diamonds without the coating!
i deff understand theres a benifit to the coating but forged pistons are pretty ****** strong as it is... who needs 250 worth of coatings making a 450 set of pistons which is already high priced a $700 set of pistons......
i deff understand theres a benifit to the coating but forged pistons are pretty ****** strong as it is... who needs 250 worth of coatings making a 450 set of pistons which is already high priced a $700 set of pistons......
09-01-2008, 01:16 AM
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well at the heat range you will be running at with 22 psi of boost and a higher compression ratio all that squeezing and operating temps are going to effect your internals with double the wear. So my question is, why are you going to build a engine so you can run that psi and temp but skimp while you have it broken down. If you can add operating hours and performance all in one shot, it would be dumb not to. I would not go with stock rings as they are rated for a certian ratio and dependability would be out the door. If its broken down to the open block build it right, dont skimp. Waste of time if you do
09-01-2008, 01:26 AM
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I have worked on an LSJ using stock rings with Diamond Pistons. While building Witt's motor, that is what we did. It works, but I would suggest against it. His car will pressurize the crank case rather easily and will pop the dipstick out.
Even he will admit, his rings don't seal as well as the other few motors we did using Total Seals. Our recent one, Dan's motor, was accidently seeing about 28-30lbs of boost from his Turbo during its first ~75 miles and it held every bit of it with the Total Seals. No dipstick shooting or smoke.
I used Total Seals on my motor and another one I built in California with great results/sealing.
Even he will admit, his rings don't seal as well as the other few motors we did using Total Seals. Our recent one, Dan's motor, was accidently seeing about 28-30lbs of boost from his Turbo during its first ~75 miles and it held every bit of it with the Total Seals. No dipstick shooting or smoke.
I used Total Seals on my motor and another one I built in California with great results/sealing.
09-01-2008, 01:37 AM
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im NOT gonna use stock rings just curious like stated as to who HAS used em so i can see what they have to say. im deff gonna run new rings so i can break in the top end myself correctly
as to "skimping" im not skimping on something when its not needed (which i dont see it being needed)
its not like my car is going to blow up because i didnt buy an "optional" coating.... i dont feel its needed the pistons will be a huge upgrade as it is.
now what i do understand is that forged metal expands and contracts at different rates as to why the side coating is important to reduce the chance of piston scuffing during slap...
and the top coating will help transfer heat evenly through out the piston...
but like i said iv done multiple engine builds using standered non coated forged pistons and found no scuffing or detonation evidence upon tear down...
so know that ive completly explained my self to you... do you have any more suggestion know that you have a little more to the story... have you ever built an lsj or used diamond pistons, and if so which ones and what was your review/outcome?
cool thanks, so iv deff decided on the not using stock rings. now what about coatings? i wasent to sure but im assuming you didnt use either? and were did you order from? thanks in advance
as to "skimping" im not skimping on something when its not needed (which i dont see it being needed)
its not like my car is going to blow up because i didnt buy an "optional" coating.... i dont feel its needed the pistons will be a huge upgrade as it is.
now what i do understand is that forged metal expands and contracts at different rates as to why the side coating is important to reduce the chance of piston scuffing during slap...
and the top coating will help transfer heat evenly through out the piston...
but like i said iv done multiple engine builds using standered non coated forged pistons and found no scuffing or detonation evidence upon tear down...
so know that ive completly explained my self to you... do you have any more suggestion know that you have a little more to the story... have you ever built an lsj or used diamond pistons, and if so which ones and what was your review/outcome?
I have worked on an LSJ using stock rings with Diamond Pistons. While building Witt's motor, that is what we did. It works, but I would suggest against it. His car will pressurize the crank case rather easily and will pop the dipstick out.
Even he will admit, his rings don't seal as well as the other few motors we did using Total Seals. Our recent one, Dan's motor, was accidently seeing about 28-30lbs of boost from his Turbo during its first ~75 miles and it held every bit of it with the Total Seals. No dipstick shooting or smoke.
I used Total Seals on my motor and another one I built in California with great results/sealing.
Even he will admit, his rings don't seal as well as the other few motors we did using Total Seals. Our recent one, Dan's motor, was accidently seeing about 28-30lbs of boost from his Turbo during its first ~75 miles and it held every bit of it with the Total Seals. No dipstick shooting or smoke.
I used Total Seals on my motor and another one I built in California with great results/sealing.
cool thanks, so iv deff decided on the not using stock rings. now what about coatings? i wasent to sure but im assuming you didnt use either? and were did you order from? thanks in advance
Last edited by hungryhip-ccp; 09-01-2008 at 01:40 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
09-01-2008, 01:39 AM
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I used nothing but Diamond Pistons in all the LSJ's I've worked on, about 4 cars, 6 builds. Never had a single problem with them. Out of all them, they all had the coatings. Only reason I got the coatings personally was because that is all Intense-Racing had instock, and they were able to ship them to me next day.
If I was able to wait, I wouldn't of cared what coatings were on them. At the same time, if those coatings really do help in the long run, why not just get them. I haven't seen proof to say that they actually do help, though.
If I was able to wait, I wouldn't of cared what coatings were on them. At the same time, if those coatings really do help in the long run, why not just get them. I haven't seen proof to say that they actually do help, though.
09-01-2008, 01:47 AM
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I used nothing but Diamond Pistons in all the LSJ's I've worked on, about 4 cars, 6 builds. Never had a single problem with them. Out of all them, they all had the coatings. Only reason I got the coatings personally was because that is all Intense-Racing had instock, and they were able to ship them to me next day.
If I was able to wait, I wouldn't of cared what coatings were on them. At the same time, if those coatings really do help in the long run, why not just get them. I haven't seen proof to say that they actually do help, though.
If I was able to wait, I wouldn't of cared what coatings were on them. At the same time, if those coatings really do help in the long run, why not just get them. I haven't seen proof to say that they actually do help, though.
turbo tech racing now offers em anyway you want. without coating they are 500 shipped. with coatings there 720 shipped
intense sells only fully coated for 700 shipped.
im torn as to weather the coatings are needed. and im gonna just end up forking over the cash like you said
one other question did you re-hone the cylinders to 220 or 240 grit? or a simple swap was performed? thanks for taking the time to help.
09-01-2008, 01:54 AM
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My motor and Witt's motor both only had about ~10k miles on it. They still had the stock/new crosshatch on the sleeves so we didn't bother touching them. Both hold compression fine. His has minor issues but it was from using the weaker stock rings. Mine sealed up great with the Total Seals.
Dan's block was worked on by a machine shop. Not sure exactly what they used, but they deglazed/crosshatched the block perfectly.
If you don't plan on removing the motor, I would just get one of those deglazers that go on a drill.
Dan's block was worked on by a machine shop. Not sure exactly what they used, but they deglazed/crosshatched the block perfectly.
If you don't plan on removing the motor, I would just get one of those deglazers that go on a drill.
09-01-2008, 01:58 AM
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well ive only got 15k on mine and would like to just do thee old swap out the bottom... im a little worried about how exactly you compressed the rings to get the pistons back in through the bottom... can you still fit a ring compressor up in there? and i would like to just use the stock sleeves and just slap in some diamonds... now that i think about it you left the motor in and just pulled the head and oil pan correct? theres no way to avoid pulling the head.... cause of the rings and ring compressing right?
09-01-2008, 02:23 AM
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no point in coating its going to flake off..and no point in stock rings...you never know they could be near damaged. Plus most people brak piston rings on these cars, so why not replace them lol...just dont see the point in stock rings
09-01-2008, 02:23 AM
#18
Haz l33t wheelz.
the guys above probably know more than i do, but in the GMR build book, they used the stock rings on diamond pistons. GM knows a little bit about what they're doing.
09-01-2008, 02:26 AM
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09-01-2008, 02:51 AM
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Haz l33t wheelz.
i don't think they were coated hungry, but yeah, haha, they didn't look very good either.
i couldn't find your part out thread, so i'm just letting you know, the other 225 is on it's way!
i couldn't find your part out thread, so i'm just letting you know, the other 225 is on it's way!
Last edited by ls1fbody; 09-01-2008 at 02:51 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
09-01-2008, 03:12 AM
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cool as soon as it clears you will have a pm with tracking #
i'v never seen a forged piston SO FUCKED UP... that **** took a beating
i'v never seen a forged piston SO FUCKED UP... that **** took a beating
Last edited by hungryhip-ccp; 09-01-2008 at 03:12 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost