Would Anyone be interested?
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From: Columbus, Ohio
Would Anyone be interested?
A buddy of mine at my work and his brother have just started this buisness with car batteries, These guys are alot older than me and have been in automotive and electronics for years, only these are not lead acid batteries, these are High Power Lithium Ion Batteries. Im in the process of getting one soon for my car, but these batteries are extremely lighter than our lead acid batteries weighing only 8 lbs. I have graphs of these batteries and Im gonna post them wants I can get the scanner to work, but these batteries can be drained down and still have power. On a depleated battery like the lead acid battery you could only get 3 sometimes 5 cycles out of it before the battery is junk and you gotta go buy another one. With these Lithium batteries you can get 1000 and then some out of it before it dies on you. These batteries are a subwoofer guys dream come true. I do know they have a bunch on order from the elctric car guys, and a bunch of them being sold in England. Once I get one Im going to take pics of it in the car, and hopefully a scale to show the deferences in weight. I know with me weight redruction is a big thing so heres more weight that you guy can eliminate and save you money. These batteries also last 40 years so you gain your money back over the years by not having to purchase one every other year, or maybe for some sooner than that with audio done in there cars. But for more indepth information on it you can call them at:
Company: Energy Storage Systems
Owner: Rob Wood
Phone: 614-226-7925
6161 Westerville Rd.
Westerville, Ohio
Rob should know the right size and everything for our cars well because Ive been talking to him about it with my car. My car is a 2006 Cobalt SS/SC G85 so we all should pretty much have the same in the trunk as far as batteries go and the demonsions, but if not you can let him know. I believe they take Paypal to. Let me know ur thoughts. Thanks guys.
Company: Energy Storage Systems
Owner: Rob Wood
Phone: 614-226-7925
6161 Westerville Rd.
Westerville, Ohio
Rob should know the right size and everything for our cars well because Ive been talking to him about it with my car. My car is a 2006 Cobalt SS/SC G85 so we all should pretty much have the same in the trunk as far as batteries go and the demonsions, but if not you can let him know. I believe they take Paypal to. Let me know ur thoughts. Thanks guys.
Thread Starter
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Joined: 08-09-07
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From: Columbus, Ohio
and when they're almost dead you can get 1000+ cycles. I'm gonna get it for my car, but I also figured you guys would all be enterested in it. I will try to put they're graphs up asap, so you guys can see the difference between lead acid batteries, and the Lithium Ion batteries.
you know the issue with lithium ion batteries in cars right?
theres a reason why they dont come with lithium ion bateries, apart from being way more expensive than lead acid batteries. While a lithium ion battery has the ability to be depleted and recharged many times with no ill effects on the battery, which is the exact opposite of a lead acid...a lead acid's lifespan is SIGNIFICANTLY longer than a lithium ion's. Lithium ion batteries lose their ability to hold a charge after X amount of useage. While i dont know what kind of useage would be normal for a car sized LiIon battery, a typical cell phone will need its LiIon batteries replaced every year or two, depending upon usage. This is why old phones seem to need a recharge towards the end of the day, whereas a new phone always seems to be able to go 2-3 days without a charge. This is also why we dont use LiIon batteries in hybrid cars, and why Detroit is still putting so much money into battery research, because they need a battery without these cons.
Im not knocking this product however, because this is a massive weight savings if your numbers are accurate, and even a 2 year life will be justified to many of us. I just want everyone to know what they'd be buying.
Also, I found this
Also, a final note, LiIon batteries ave fairly low discharge rates, and can not output a large amount of current at once, and are far better at extended use at low currents (like illuminating lights) thanthey are at rapid current draws (like starting an engine). This is why cars like the Tesla Roadster were made with several thousand small LiIon battery packs instead of one big one.
theres a reason why they dont come with lithium ion bateries, apart from being way more expensive than lead acid batteries. While a lithium ion battery has the ability to be depleted and recharged many times with no ill effects on the battery, which is the exact opposite of a lead acid...a lead acid's lifespan is SIGNIFICANTLY longer than a lithium ion's. Lithium ion batteries lose their ability to hold a charge after X amount of useage. While i dont know what kind of useage would be normal for a car sized LiIon battery, a typical cell phone will need its LiIon batteries replaced every year or two, depending upon usage. This is why old phones seem to need a recharge towards the end of the day, whereas a new phone always seems to be able to go 2-3 days without a charge. This is also why we dont use LiIon batteries in hybrid cars, and why Detroit is still putting so much money into battery research, because they need a battery without these cons.
Im not knocking this product however, because this is a massive weight savings if your numbers are accurate, and even a 2 year life will be justified to many of us. I just want everyone to know what they'd be buying.
Also, I found this
Despite having the second lowest energy-to-weight ratio (next to the nickel-iron battery) and a correspondingly low energy-to-volume ratio, their ability to supply high surge currents means that the cells maintain a relatively large power-to-weight ratio. These features, along with their low cost, make them attractive for use in cars to provide the high current required by automobile starter motors.
Thread Starter
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Joined: 08-09-07
Posts: 992
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From: Columbus, Ohio
you know the issue with lithium ion batteries in cars right?
theres a reason why they dont come with lithium ion bateries, apart from being way more expensive than lead acid batteries. While a lithium ion battery has the ability to be depleted and recharged many times with no ill effects on the battery, which is the exact opposite of a lead acid...a lead acid's lifespan is SIGNIFICANTLY longer than a lithium ion's. Lithium ion batteries lose their ability to hold a charge after X amount of useage. While i dont know what kind of useage would be normal for a car sized LiIon battery, a typical cell phone will need its LiIon batteries replaced every year or two, depending upon usage. This is why old phones seem to need a recharge towards the end of the day, whereas a new phone always seems to be able to go 2-3 days without a charge. This is also why we dont use LiIon batteries in hybrid cars, and why Detroit is still putting so much money into battery research, because they need a battery without these cons.
Im not knocking this product however, because this is a massive weight savings if your numbers are accurate, and even a 2 year life will be justified to many of us. I just want everyone to know what they'd be buying.
Also, I found this
Also, a final note, LiIon batteries ave fairly low discharge rates, and can not output a large amount of current at once, and are far better at extended use at low currents (like illuminating lights) thanthey are at rapid current draws (like starting an engine). This is why cars like the Tesla Roadster were made with several thousand small LiIon battery packs instead of one big one.
theres a reason why they dont come with lithium ion bateries, apart from being way more expensive than lead acid batteries. While a lithium ion battery has the ability to be depleted and recharged many times with no ill effects on the battery, which is the exact opposite of a lead acid...a lead acid's lifespan is SIGNIFICANTLY longer than a lithium ion's. Lithium ion batteries lose their ability to hold a charge after X amount of useage. While i dont know what kind of useage would be normal for a car sized LiIon battery, a typical cell phone will need its LiIon batteries replaced every year or two, depending upon usage. This is why old phones seem to need a recharge towards the end of the day, whereas a new phone always seems to be able to go 2-3 days without a charge. This is also why we dont use LiIon batteries in hybrid cars, and why Detroit is still putting so much money into battery research, because they need a battery without these cons.
Im not knocking this product however, because this is a massive weight savings if your numbers are accurate, and even a 2 year life will be justified to many of us. I just want everyone to know what they'd be buying.
Also, I found this
Also, a final note, LiIon batteries ave fairly low discharge rates, and can not output a large amount of current at once, and are far better at extended use at low currents (like illuminating lights) thanthey are at rapid current draws (like starting an engine). This is why cars like the Tesla Roadster were made with several thousand small LiIon battery packs instead of one big one.
Ok correction these are Lithium Iron Phosphate or NanoPhosphate and these are thermal safe, and will not catch fire, and are alot better for the enviornment, and no more corrosion. They will not exhibit thermal run away. These batteries are made up of individual cells the size of a D battery, and with our cars they would use an x amount that would essentially last longer than the car no questions asked. Reserve Capacity is 1200 amps. without damage. Its continuous capacity is 600 amps. Battery weight is 8 lbs. and is the exact same size as our stock batteries. Can be powered by a 13.2 Volt Altinator, and is 20 amps an hour. On a dead battery the altinator will charge the Nano battery at a continuous rate until fully charged and will not allow the altinator to over charge the battery, which saves wear and tear on the altinator and saves you gas which only is about a gallon and a half in a year but it still saves you gas. For more indepth information for those who are curious about these battery's which I am, and Im gonna post pics and what not when I get one, but goto my previous first post and call them they want you guys to call because they dont want you guys to get confused with what I am telling you. I only know what they are telling me to say so I would recommend you guys to call.
Bump, comments?
Last edited by MrSlickSter06SS; Apr 13, 2009 at 10:04 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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From: Abbotsford, BC
Ok correction these are Lithium Iron Phosphate or NanoPhosphate and these are thermal safe, and will not catch fire, and are alot better for the enviornment, and no more corrosion. They will not exhibit thermal run away. These batteries are made up of individual cells the size of a D battery, and with our cars they would use an x amount that would essentially last longer than the car no questions asked. Reserve Capacity is 1200 amps. without damage. Its continuous capacity is 600 amps. Battery weight is 8 lbs. and is the exact same size as our stock batteries. Can be powered by a 13.2 Volt Altinator, and is 20 amps an hour. On a dead battery the altinator will charge the Nano battery at a continuous rate until fully charged and will not allow the altinator to over charge the battery, which saves wear and tear on the altinator and saves you gas which only is about a gallon and a half in a year but it still saves you gas. For more indepth information for those who are curious about these battery's which I am, and Im gonna post pics and what not when I get one, but goto my previous first post and call them they want you guys to call because they dont want you guys to get confused with what I am telling you. I only know what they are telling me to say so I would recommend you guys to call.
Bump, comments?
Bump, comments?
How many reserve hours?
What's an altinator?
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Joined: 08-09-07
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From: Columbus, Ohio
Reserve Hours Im not sure of I can find out tomorrow, as well as the cold cranking amps, Im not sure but I'll find out, If you are enterested in them and you have question like this call and ask them I dont know much about these batteries, im just relaying the message from what they have given me, sorry.
Here are the specs on the cells.
High Power Lithium Ion ANR26650M1A
A123Systems’ lithium ion rechargeable ANR26650M1A cell is capable of very high power, long cycle and
calendar life, and has excellent abuse tolerance due to its use of patented Nanophosphate™ technology.
Voltage (V)
Low Temperature Discharge Performance Discharge Characteristics, 25 deg C
Voltage (V)
Nominal capacity and voltage 2.3 Ah, 3.3 V
Internal impedance (1kHz AC) 8 m1 typical
Internal resistance (10A, 1s DC) 10 m1 typical
Recommended standard charge method 3A to 3.6V CCCV, 45 min
Recommended fast charge current 10A to 3.6V CCCV, 15 min
Maximum continuous discharge 70A
Pulse discharge at 10 sec 120A
Cycle life at 10C discharge, 100% DOD Over 1,000 cycles
Recommended pulse charge/discharge cutoff 3.8V to 1.6V
Operating temperature range -30°C to +60°C
Storage temperature range -50°C to +60°C
Core cell weight 70 grams
MD100001-02 A123Systems™ Copyright © 2009 A123 Systems, Inc. All rights reserved.
Or you can goto this site to see the graphs on these batteries and the actual size of them at:
http://a123systems.textdriven.com/pr...APRIL_2009.pdf
i did a little reading....this puzzles me"
the bolded sections would suggest that these batteries are rather dense...and if it is the same size as our stock battery like you said, which it would need to be to supply the proper current, then how does it only weigh 8lbs?
regardless, its a cool type of battery i wasnt aware of, and apparently it is the battery that will be powering the chevy volt
The LiFePO4 battery uses a lithium-ion-derived chemistry and shares many of its advantages and disadvantages with other lithium ion battery chemistries. The key advantages for LiFePO4 are the safety (resistance to thermal runaway) and the high current or peak-power rating. Cost is claimed to be a major difference as well, but, that cannot be verified until the cells are more widely used in the marketplace.
LFP batteries have some drawbacks:
1. The specific energy (energy/volume) of a new LFP battery is somewhat lower than that of a new LiCoO2 battery. Battery manufacturers across the world are currently working to find ways to maximize the energy storage performance and reduce size & weight.[6]
2. Brand new LFP's have been found to fail prematurely if they are "deep cycled" (discharged below 33% level) too early. A break-in period of 20 charging cycles is currently recommended by some distributors.[citation needed]
3. Rapid charging will shorten lithium-ion battery (including LFP) life-span when compared to traditional trickle charging.[citation needed]
4. The lithium reserves are estimated at 30,000 tonnes in 2015[7].
While LiFePO4 cells have lower voltage and energy density than normal, LiCoO2 Li-ion cells, this disadvantage is offset over time by the slower rate of capacity loss (aka greater calendar-life) of LiFePO4 when compared with other lithium-ion battery chemistries (such as LiCoO2 "cobalt" or LiMnO2 "manganese spinel" based Lithium-ion polymer batteries or Lithium-ion batteries).[8][9] For example:
* After one year of use, a LiFePO4 cell typically has approximately the same energy density as a normal, LiCoO2 Li-ion cell.
* Beyond one year of use, a LiFePO4 cell is likely to have higher energy density than a normal, LiCoO2 Li-ion cell due to the differences in their respective calendar-lives.
LFP batteries have some drawbacks:
1. The specific energy (energy/volume) of a new LFP battery is somewhat lower than that of a new LiCoO2 battery. Battery manufacturers across the world are currently working to find ways to maximize the energy storage performance and reduce size & weight.[6]
2. Brand new LFP's have been found to fail prematurely if they are "deep cycled" (discharged below 33% level) too early. A break-in period of 20 charging cycles is currently recommended by some distributors.[citation needed]
3. Rapid charging will shorten lithium-ion battery (including LFP) life-span when compared to traditional trickle charging.[citation needed]
4. The lithium reserves are estimated at 30,000 tonnes in 2015[7].
While LiFePO4 cells have lower voltage and energy density than normal, LiCoO2 Li-ion cells, this disadvantage is offset over time by the slower rate of capacity loss (aka greater calendar-life) of LiFePO4 when compared with other lithium-ion battery chemistries (such as LiCoO2 "cobalt" or LiMnO2 "manganese spinel" based Lithium-ion polymer batteries or Lithium-ion batteries).[8][9] For example:
* After one year of use, a LiFePO4 cell typically has approximately the same energy density as a normal, LiCoO2 Li-ion cell.
* Beyond one year of use, a LiFePO4 cell is likely to have higher energy density than a normal, LiCoO2 Li-ion cell due to the differences in their respective calendar-lives.
regardless, its a cool type of battery i wasnt aware of, and apparently it is the battery that will be powering the chevy volt
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 08-09-07
Posts: 992
Likes: 0
From: Columbus, Ohio
i did a little reading....this puzzles me"
the bolded sections would suggest that these batteries are rather dense...and if it is the same size as our stock battery like you said, which it would need to be to supply the proper current, then how does it only weigh 8lbs?
regardless, its a cool type of battery i wasnt aware of, and apparently it is the battery that will be powering the chevy volt
the bolded sections would suggest that these batteries are rather dense...and if it is the same size as our stock battery like you said, which it would need to be to supply the proper current, then how does it only weigh 8lbs?
regardless, its a cool type of battery i wasnt aware of, and apparently it is the battery that will be powering the chevy volt
Do remember these are Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries, or aka NanoPhosphate, these batteries are no comparison to a cell phone battery they have no matching of any type. These batteries and cell phone batteries are not the same type of battery, they may sound the same but they are not made up of the same type of energy.
and I posted it before you can get upto 1000 or even more cranks out of this battery before it fails. Aswell as it lasting longer than your car.
Last edited by MrSlickSter06SS; Apr 14, 2009 at 02:59 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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