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ZZP's Neutral Balance Shafts..
Bad Investment or good investment I have the extra money but just curious what people think.
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i say if you are building the motor than yes, but just to do as a bolt-on, prolly put that cash towards other parts, such as pistons
also allecotec and OTTP also sell the balance shafts |
I'd do valve springs before balance shafts.
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Don't do balance shafts unless you are going to be upgrading your valvetrain. The biggest benefit of those is so that you can spin the motor higher (which requires valvesprings at the least). There are a lot of compromises with those when it comes to OEM drive-ability. I'm not necessarily saying you shouldn't get them, just that you more than likely are not at the point to need them if you have to ask...
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Originally Posted by Pyros777
(Post 4595447)
I'd do valve springs before balance shafts.
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Originally Posted by Edubs
(Post 4595466)
Don't do balance shafts unless you are going to be upgrading your valvetrain. The biggest benefit of those is so that you can spin the motor higher (which requires valvesprings at the least). There are a lot of compromises with those when it comes to OEM drive-ability. I'm not necessarily saying you shouldn't get them, just that you more than likely are not at the point to need them if you have to ask...
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From my understanding the harmonics at idle and near idle are changed, essentially killing any chance of a stock-feeling idle.
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Originally Posted by JapEatr
(Post 4595571)
can you elaborate on the loss of driveability?
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is it true its easier to do these with the head off? or does the motor have to be dropped.
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Originally Posted by 07MetallicSC
(Post 4595622)
is it true its easier to do these with the head off? or does the motor have to be dropped.
i believe it can be done with the motor in the car, albeit with some finagling |
Originally Posted by JapEatr
(Post 4595571)
can you elaborate on the loss of driveability?
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Originally Posted by OriGinaL Condo
(Post 4595621)
Never had experience with them but from what I hear, the vibs are insane.
The first 500 miles or so I saw a vibration at 3200 rpm that would make the mirrors vibrate enough to make it hard to see (like a deep bass from a stereo). Now for some reason, it seems less plus my girlfriend really likes to ride along now. :) |
They can be done without removing the head, the vibes at 3200 are what i have heard before, not the insane craziness people think
I have the GM ones(pretty damn heavy) goin in my build https://www.cobaltss.net/gallery/fil...4/dsc00584.jpg https://www.cobaltss.net/gallery/fil...4/dsc00588.jpg |
those are the neutrals correct?
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i stand corrected. don't have to remove the head, but you do have to remove valve cover and cam gears/chain guides... ?
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Originally Posted by bolus
(Post 4595737)
I removed the balance shafts and the vibration isn't that bad. And I have an Atom where the engine is bolted to the frame and the frame is bolted to a racing seat.
The first 500 miles or so I saw a vibration at 3200 rpm that would make the mirrors vibrate enough to make it hard to see (like a deep bass from a stereo). Now for some reason, it seems less plus my girlfriend really likes to ride along now. :)
Originally Posted by JapEatr
(Post 4595768)
They can be done without removing the head, the vibes at 3200 are what i have heard before, not the insane craziness people think
I have the GM ones(pretty damn heavy) goin in my build Everyone has different tolerance levels. The more you modify an engine, the more OEM drive-ability and street manners you are likely to compromise. I had a straight through 3" exhaust (no muff, lol), poly trans bushings and TTR upper mount for quite some time. Really wasn't THAT bad to me. It was usually the typical "A/C and idle is where it's noticeable" kinda thing. Then I switched to the Powell rotated mounts/stock upper and threw a muffler out back and mother of god did it get much, much more comfortable. Threw a turbo on there and it got even a little more tolerable. I noticed and heard things that I completely forgot about, lol. I guess my point here is that as car fanatics, we tend to adapt quite well. After your build, you probably won't think it's THAT bad. Do me a favor after a few months; though, and go ride in a bone stock 06 LSJ. I'm sure you get my point... |
Originally Posted by Edubs
(Post 4595799)
I respect you, so don't take this the wrong way, but there's no real way to compare an Atom to a Cobalt in any category. LoL
I know your comment isn't necessarily directed towards me, but I do want to throw my 2 cents in here. Everyone has different tolerance levels. The more you modify an engine, the more OEM drive-ability and street manners you are likely to compromise. I had a straight through 3" exhaust (no muff, lol), poly trans bushings and TTR upper mount for quite some time. Really wasn't THAT bad to me. It was usually the typical "A/C and idle is where it's noticeable" kinda thing. Then I switched to the Powell rotated mounts/stock upper and threw a muffler out back and mother of god did it get much, much more comfortable. Threw a turbo on there and it got even a little more tolerable. I noticed and heard things that I completely forgot about, lol. I guess my point here is that as car fanatics, we tend to adapt quite well. After your build, you probably won't think it's THAT bad. Do me a favor after a few months; though, and go ride in a bone stock 06 LSJ. I'm sure you get my point... |
Originally Posted by 07MetallicSC
(Post 4595812)
my own personal experience is october of 08 i got laid off. to help with some bills i stripped the car back to stock and sold everything i had ( car is now back to what it was plus more ) and i went from solid mounts, catless 3" etc to full stock and it was kinda nice for a bit. you could talk to the person next to you you didnt have to yell. nothing vibed. i could hear the blower again. now im built again and im happy with where it is. your correct tho as modders we do get comfortable with our builds and forget what it was
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im trying to tell a kid at work he needs to sell me his 02 cavalier 2.4 so i can have it for a daily. with of course a full suspension and maybe a couple other things of course..... ah who the hell am i kidding ill mod that too
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Originally Posted by Edubs
(Post 4595799)
I respect you, so don't take this the wrong way, but there's no real way to compare an Atom to a Cobalt in any category. LoL
I know your comment isn't necessarily directed towards me, but I do want to throw my 2 cents in here. Everyone has different tolerance levels. The more you modify an engine, the more OEM drive-ability and street manners you are likely to compromise. I had a straight through 3" exhaust (no muff, lol), poly trans bushings and TTR upper mount for quite some time. Really wasn't THAT bad to me. It was usually the typical "A/C and idle is where it's noticeable" kinda thing. Then I switched to the Powell rotated mounts/stock upper and threw a muffler out back and mother of god did it get much, much more comfortable. Threw a turbo on there and it got even a little more tolerable. I noticed and heard things that I completely forgot about, lol. I guess my point here is that as car fanatics, we tend to adapt quite well. After your build, you probably won't think it's THAT bad. Do me a favor after a few months; though, and go ride in a bone stock 06 LSJ. I'm sure you get my point... definatly not directing anything to you...the kid i bought those shafts from was scared to install them cuz the thought the vibes may destroy the engine...LOL\ The comment towards bolus and the comment regarding drivability is totally understood. i did the same thing and went from having polys to OTTP mounts, louad ass ZZP exhaust to smooth Hahn...etc. certainly the DD aspect and creature comforts take a hit for performance. But i have ridden in a stock Atom (Quicksilver, driven by Aaron Silver) and other than the wind in your face and the organ shifting tight suspension...it sounded like a bone stock LSJ(whining blower and all) so i believe there is a slight comparision Now certainly bolus wont have dash rattles...:cssNET: |
Originally Posted by JapEatr
(Post 4595768)
I have the GM ones(pretty damn heavy) goin in my build ZZP shafts are much better designed than the other 2 choices and will produce gains on the dyno and the track over the other offerings. |
Originally Posted by JapEatr
(Post 4596139)
Now certainly bolus wont have dash rattles...:cssNET:
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Originally Posted by Zooomer
(Post 4596158)
http://www.zzperformance.com/cobalt_...1143&catid=143
ZZP shafts are much better designed than the other 2 choices and will produce gains on the dyno and the track over the other offerings. what is the weight on your balance blanks? |
Originally Posted by Zooomer
(Post 4596158)
http://www.zzperformance.com/cobalt_...1143&catid=143
ZZP shafts are much better designed than the other 2 choices and will produce gains on the dyno and the track over the other offerings. Man, that Saturday would suck... :lol: |
zooomer, how do the neutral shafts compare to a balance shaft delete?
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