Leafydialupking

iTrader: (1)

Custom intake manifold, custom header. you mean de-stroked and with the longest rods possible, not stroked.

redcobalt07

iTrader: (18)

i'm hoping you get 200 tom

NWAE Cobalt

iTrader: (1)

no...i was correct in what i said haha
"An engine modified with a longer piston stroke (the distance the piston can travel up and down in its cylinder) to produce more power. Often combined with boring (increasing the diameter of the cylinder); the resulting engine is described as stroked and bored"

NWAE Cobalt

iTrader: (1)

"Increasing the stroke increases the swept volume of each cylinder and enlarges an engine’s displacement; decreasing the stroke reduces the swept volume and lessens the engine’s displacement."

Leafydialupking

iTrader: (1)

But it also make it harder to rev higher. and it makes it basically impossible to get a rod to stroke ratio to make good high rpm power.

NWAE Cobalt

iTrader: (1)

we shall see, thats somethign I am not very knowledable on, but will do some research and we shall see :P
and hell, if it got bored and stroked and made the power a bit lower instead...then id be ok with that :P

blucavvy

good luck bud. your 200 whp marks are 100% attainable. albeit the car will basically be no fun whatsoever to dd. as all your power will be in the top end. not to mention i still don't think you understand what it's going to take to hit that 200 whp mark. the engine will be a beast yes, but ur in to custom parts and deep pocket's territory there.

your 300 whp goal is ridiculous. without a professional race shop at your back and "overnight parts from japan" you'll never get close. by the end of it the engine wouldn't even resemble anything even close to an l61.

joshc.

If 200hp doesn't happen I'll mail you my stage 3s coming out of my spare head.

dandaman15

Honda K engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stroke ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://tinyurl.com/2f2f56u

The honda K-series motors use the same Bore that we have at 86mm but use a shorter stroke at than us. They use 86mm stroke to maintain a "square" engine which is really what you want if you turbo or rev high reliably. With the engine being square it maximizes performance while keeping the piston and rod accelerations lower. Since they are lower at a given rpm vs our engine theirs can rev higher to get to the same piston accelerations we are seeing. Im sure I could do all the math needed to find all the right measurements for our engine but that would take a long time.

Another thing to look at is our motor probably wont make as much power as a K20 or k24/k20 hybrid because their heads flow so much better than ours do. These engines are made for N/A so they will be better. We should be able to get close though if someone were to do a full out build correctly. It needs to be thought out though. If someone with money just starts throwing aftermarket off the shelf parts at a motor they will probably be disappointed that it didnt make as much power as they thought.

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

then ill revise again to 185-195whp
i dont think anyone is discouraging him from doing it, im just throwing out what my guess is to how much he'll make.
not gonna happen with the current bottom end, as well as the fact that im pretty sure our ecm doesnt go past 8200rpm (atleast the LSJ ecm doesnt)
go to ecotec forum. Maven has an AMAZING post on everything needed to achieve a 10,000rpm redline, factoring in material strength, valve train, etc. He basically says its not going to happen in this community unless theres some serious destroking, but yea, leafy is right. If you want power AND torque, bor and stroke. If you are willing to sacrifice some torque for a decent gain in power, then boring is still fine, but you either want to leave stroke alone, or destroke it to 2.0L.

dandaman15

We dont need to rev to 10,000 rpm. Like I said before I think 8500 to 9000 max is plenty high for an engine this size.

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

i never said we do. I was just saying maven has an informative post about doing so.

i think 8,000 is plenty solely because it gets VERY expensive to spin faster for not much of a gain

NWAE Cobalt

iTrader: (1)

that could be fun

all_motor_mike

hey tom if u need anything that some of these vendors dont make (like real performance parts and not production crap) let me know.


mike

NWAE Cobalt

iTrader: (1)

oh hell ya mang

I wish i could afford your cyl head at this point :P but it would almost be overkill till i build out the bottom end :P

And hell....maybe one of these summers ill have to road trip it down to you seeing as we are on the same coast and all

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

a little excessive man....

NWAE Cobalt

iTrader: (1)

how is that excessive...its the truth
there really isnt much off the shelf n/a support and this guy knows his ****
alot of doing something like this is knowing how to get ahold of what you need and knowing people...

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

off the shelf production crap is a little harsh.
is it off the shelf? yes
is it crap? i wouldnt say so

NWAE Cobalt

iTrader: (1)

not all off the shelf stuff is crap...but with building n/a...there is a poin at which there is no off the shelf stuff to pull from

all_motor_mike

not all the production stuff is crap, but it could be better if more time and money were put into it. hence the reason its production, make alot of stuff for as cheap as possible in an assembly line or whatever and its not as good as a custom piece (like what i do) is. are u with a company that produces stuff for these cars?


mike

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

Because the physics do not support it.

Then looking at the highest HP motors in the world, you won't see 100WHP per liter w/o very high rpm (motorcycle) or very high compression which is above what pump gas will yield. I believe this conversation was telling Matt, not at 10k rpm and we are talking pump gas. No, it's not really possible with those to stipulations.

I find it humorous that people are talking about running the 2.4 intake, TB and things like that. Are you aware that no one is at 200WHP (that I know of) with a 2.4L? That's 10% more displacement, variable cam phasing and higher compression.

NWAE Cobalt

iTrader: (1)

right...but no one has taken a 2.2 and done stuff such as: cams (for an N/A) and a shaved head with pull bolt ons

like I said, im just waiting on the dyno owner to call me back with a sched for throwing my car up there and we shall see what it yeilds

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

But why would those things do something on this car they aren't doing on any other car in the world?

Did you dyno the car stock? Lots of people have done intakes, exhausts, TB's, etc. People aren't making 150WHP. Why would you make 200?

Furthermore, to my knowledge, no one is making that with a 2.4 which has every advantage over you. I'm not trying to be a downer, I just don't see why you'd think some type of magic is going to happen with just your car.

CobaltMagic77

NWAE do you have a pic of your dyno when it was 180? I thought that I remember looking at it in a different thread. Anyway, if you have it why not post it up along with what you had done to the car at the time. Let everyone see what it was as kind of a before, then after the next dyno post up a pic along with the changes. While your build is mild in NA terms, you have done more than 99% of people on this site that I know of, so that way we can see what kind of gains are possible. Whether the gains are good or not so good, we would at least be able to have a general reference point. Good luck by the way, I think you are going to suprise some people.

08ShowbaltLS

wow zooomer have you ever heard of a honda f20c? its completely stock with even a paper filter and makes over 100 whp/liter on believe it or not, pump gas! oh yeah and this was back in 1999. yes it does rev to 9000 rpm but makes over 200 whp @ 8k. imagine what it would do with full bolt ons and cams...