200whp N/A?
10-16-2010, 07:39 PM
#126
I plan to hit 200 whp NA' within 3 months
2.4l intake manifold and throttle body, lsj exhaust manifold and down pipe, 2.5" exhaust, port and polished head, stg2 cams, upgraded valve train for close to 8k red line and a tune
Here is my head
2.4l intake manifold and throttle body, lsj exhaust manifold and down pipe, 2.5" exhaust, port and polished head, stg2 cams, upgraded valve train for close to 8k red line and a tune
Here is my head
10-17-2010, 01:56 AM
#127
Senior Member
you need balanced shafts and some gears to do this man.
10-17-2010, 10:25 AM
#129
10-17-2010, 12:21 PM
#130
no you dont.. balance shaft delete ist needed till your reving till over 8k
and alanoo i'm sure he probably could get over 200.. **** any kinda ported head will help and whats his name on here got 180 whp with an unfinished tune and no ported head
and alanoo i'm sure he probably could get over 200.. **** any kinda ported head will help and whats his name on here got 180 whp with an unfinished tune and no ported head
10-17-2010, 12:47 PM
#131
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The head looks cool... but with a 2.4 manifold you will never feed enough air to the head to take the full benefit of it...
And an LSJ exhaust manifold which is completely acoustically untuned for N/A applications.... come on...
10-17-2010, 01:51 PM
#132
the difference in the 2.2 manifold and lsj manifold are only in port size its not like they're a different design. will he make more power with a different header.. of course. but acting high and mighty cuz he's using stock parts that are capable is kinda ridiculous..
10-17-2010, 03:14 PM
#133
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the difference in the 2.2 manifold and lsj manifold are only in port size its not like they're a different design. will he make more power with a different header.. of course. but acting high and mighty cuz he's using stock parts that are capable is kinda ridiculous..
the difference in the 2.2 manifold and lsj manifold are only in port size its not like they're a different design. will he make more power with a different header.. of course. but acting high and mighty cuz he's using stock parts that are capable is kinda ridiculous..
10-17-2010, 03:30 PM
#135
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the 2.4 manifold is fine for the application.. the exhaust manifold will work but is not optimal
the difference in the 2.2 manifold and lsj manifold are only in port size its not like they're a different design. will he make more power with a different header.. of course. but acting high and mighty cuz he's using stock parts that are capable is kinda ridiculous..
the difference in the 2.2 manifold and lsj manifold are only in port size its not like they're a different design. will he make more power with a different header.. of course. but acting high and mighty cuz he's using stock parts that are capable is kinda ridiculous..
It makes the engine much more sportier because it make the power curve a lot higher, but actually it does not flow much more than the 2.2... look at the torque values, it's only a story of higher powerband, not better efficiency.
Btw, here is one on my logs using the 2.4
Red is TPS value (1000 = 100%), blue is MAP value... X axle is RPM upto 8400+
As you can see, the 2.4 is unable the flow enough to get atmospheric pressure at anything more than 5000 rpm
10-17-2010, 03:36 PM
#136
The 2.4 manifold is only marginally better than the 2.2 one.
It makes the engine much more sportier because it make the power curve a lot higher, but actually it does not flow much more than the 2.2... look at the torque values, it's only a story of higher powerband, not better efficiency.
Btw, here is one on my logs using the 2.4
Red is TPS value (1000 = 100%), blue is MAP value... X axle is RPM upto 8400+
As you can see, the 2.4 is unable the flow enough to get atmospheric pressure at anything more than 5000 rpm
It makes the engine much more sportier because it make the power curve a lot higher, but actually it does not flow much more than the 2.2... look at the torque values, it's only a story of higher powerband, not better efficiency.
Btw, here is one on my logs using the 2.4
Red is TPS value (1000 = 100%), blue is MAP value... X axle is RPM upto 8400+
As you can see, the 2.4 is unable the flow enough to get atmospheric pressure at anything more than 5000 rpm
the runners on the 2.4 manifold are larger.. like i said is it perfect no.. but it'll be fine to make 200 whp.. people have made 200+ na on 2.4s with it .. as well as Jbodies have made 200 + whp na on their stock IM which if i recall is the same as the 2.2
10-17-2010, 03:40 PM
#137
the runners on the 2.4 manifold are larger.. like i said is it perfect no.. but it'll be fine to make 200 whp.. people have made 200+ na on 2.4s with it .. as well as Jbodies have made 200 + whp na on their stock IM which if i recall is the same as the 2.2
10-17-2010, 03:49 PM
#139
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neither does my ported saab intake manifold.. but the same setup is being used on a 600 whp car
the runners on the 2.4 manifold are larger.. like i said is it perfect no.. but it'll be fine to make 200 whp.. people have made 200+ na on 2.4s with it .. as well as Jbodies have made 200 + whp na on their stock IM which if i recall is the same as the 2.2
the runners on the 2.4 manifold are larger.. like i said is it perfect no.. but it'll be fine to make 200 whp.. people have made 200+ na on 2.4s with it .. as well as Jbodies have made 200 + whp na on their stock IM which if i recall is the same as the 2.2
On a 2.4 with 10% free from the displacement increase, it's much more easier
I don't remember seeing anything higher than 200 whp on Jbodies with the stock IM
10-17-2010, 11:59 PM
#141
true. IMO headwork and compression is the way to get there, but you just gotta make sure the bolt ons arent restricting anything at all, and as alanoo stated, the LE5 manifold doesnt flow much more than the L61 manifold. A custom manifold would be best, along with a header similar to the mid lengths or longtubes on the market now (with larger collectors (length not diameter)) with primaries tuned to w/e RPM range you'll be using. We have a LOT of exhaust options, and several are very nice, but there are almost no NA intake manifold options.
10-18-2010, 01:38 AM
#142
true. IMO headwork and compression is the way to get there, but you just gotta make sure the bolt ons arent restricting anything at all, and as alanoo stated, the LE5 manifold doesnt flow much more than the L61 manifold. A custom manifold would be best, along with a header similar to the mid lengths or longtubes on the market now (with larger collectors (length not diameter)) with primaries tuned to w/e RPM range you'll be using. We have a LOT of exhaust options, and several are very nice, but there are almost no NA intake manifold options.
10-23-2010, 09:03 PM
#143
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I know of someone who has lost time off there et switching to a 2.4 manifold so he switched back tio stock L61 and picked them up again. This was on an N/A race car that was around 11:1 compression. This same car is around 2.6l now and still N/A.
A stock LSJ header I dont see being as benificial as a properly built Long tube header. I mean look at the GM race header on there N/A 2.2s the exhaust ports are huge and oval. And these cars were making 400+N/A. Theres a ported 'race head' a guy did on JBO that was hand ported that flowed almost as much as an M2 cnc ported LSJ that right there with adequate compression and nice sized cams could easily net 200+hp.
Balance shafts need to be deleted if your looking anywhere past 7200RPM. Not to mention a better rod ratio or rod ratio isn't very suitable for N/A at 7200RPM piston speed is beyond what it should be. The downside is custom rods and pistons would be needed to change it.
The door for N/A on these engines has barely been cracked the downside is this isn't a honda where N/A parts are every where. The L61 loves boost, but if built properly is an amazing N/A engine.
A stock LSJ header I dont see being as benificial as a properly built Long tube header. I mean look at the GM race header on there N/A 2.2s the exhaust ports are huge and oval. And these cars were making 400+N/A. Theres a ported 'race head' a guy did on JBO that was hand ported that flowed almost as much as an M2 cnc ported LSJ that right there with adequate compression and nice sized cams could easily net 200+hp.
Balance shafts need to be deleted if your looking anywhere past 7200RPM. Not to mention a better rod ratio or rod ratio isn't very suitable for N/A at 7200RPM piston speed is beyond what it should be. The downside is custom rods and pistons would be needed to change it.
The door for N/A on these engines has barely been cracked the downside is this isn't a honda where N/A parts are every where. The L61 loves boost, but if built properly is an amazing N/A engine.
10-23-2010, 10:22 PM
#144
I know of someone who has lost time off there et switching to a 2.4 manifold so he switched back tio stock L61 and picked them up again. This was on an N/A race car that was around 11:1 compression. This same car is around 2.6l now and still N/A.
A stock LSJ header I dont see being as benificial as a properly built Long tube header. I mean look at the GM race header on there N/A 2.2s the exhaust ports are huge and oval. And these cars were making 400+N/A. Theres a ported 'race head' a guy did on JBO that was hand ported that flowed almost as much as an M2 cnc ported LSJ that right there with adequate compression and nice sized cams could easily net 200+hp.
Balance shafts need to be deleted if your looking anywhere past 7200RPM. Not to mention a better rod ratio or rod ratio isn't very suitable for N/A at 7200RPM piston speed is beyond what it should be. The downside is custom rods and pistons would be needed to change it.
The door for N/A on these engines has barely been cracked the downside is this isn't a honda where N/A parts are every where. The L61 loves boost, but if built properly is an amazing N/A engine.
A stock LSJ header I dont see being as benificial as a properly built Long tube header. I mean look at the GM race header on there N/A 2.2s the exhaust ports are huge and oval. And these cars were making 400+N/A. Theres a ported 'race head' a guy did on JBO that was hand ported that flowed almost as much as an M2 cnc ported LSJ that right there with adequate compression and nice sized cams could easily net 200+hp.
Balance shafts need to be deleted if your looking anywhere past 7200RPM. Not to mention a better rod ratio or rod ratio isn't very suitable for N/A at 7200RPM piston speed is beyond what it should be. The downside is custom rods and pistons would be needed to change it.
The door for N/A on these engines has barely been cracked the downside is this isn't a honda where N/A parts are every where. The L61 loves boost, but if built properly is an amazing N/A engine.
10-24-2010, 03:03 PM
#147
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Now if you want to talk about z22se in Europe those guys have pushed N/A limits and are still making advances but here in the states its so cheap and easy to boost that's the way most go.
Elec I was told this by todd miller of todd miller racing and by someone at bates. Take into account my cam selection can sustain 8200RPM quite easily.
10-24-2010, 03:18 PM
#148
show me someone who has done a full N/A build on a street car. I know of about 4 quick N/A L61s of the top of my head. And they are nowhere near a true N/A build.
Now if you want to talk about z22se in Europe those guys have pushed N/A limits and are still making advances but here in the states its so cheap and easy to boost that's the way most go.
Elec I was told this by todd miller of todd miller racing and by someone at bates. Take into account my cam selection can sustain 8200RPM quite easily.
Now if you want to talk about z22se in Europe those guys have pushed N/A limits and are still making advances but here in the states its so cheap and easy to boost that's the way most go.
Elec I was told this by todd miller of todd miller racing and by someone at bates. Take into account my cam selection can sustain 8200RPM quite easily.
I'm all for NA builds. Hell, i wanted to do one for a long time, but to pretend there are secrets that havent been unlocked or that we need pioneers to forge the way for us is just wrong. As i said earlier, NA hp on the ecotec is incredibly straight forward; its just also incredibly expensive
10-24-2010, 11:05 PM
#149
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I agree its expensive. But I've never seen an ITB set-up granted this is harder to achieve in a Delta due to the electronic tb. Now us J-body guys have the benifit of a cable actuated tb, but once again outside of race cars I haven't seen one in the states. I have seen a couple offered by Britsh/European companies.
I'm not pretending there are secrets but there engine building techniques that I've yet to see used and its all for reason: its expensive. there are no secrets when building an engine just alot that hasn't been tried in our community.
I'm not pretending there are secrets but there engine building techniques that I've yet to see used and its all for reason: its expensive. there are no secrets when building an engine just alot that hasn't been tried in our community.
10-24-2010, 11:58 PM
#150
just because it hasnt been posted on CSS doesnt mean it hasnt been done. Hell, you can buy ITB setups for ecotecs online. That means there was a market for people to buy, and that means some have sold. Maybe you should explore ecotecforum .com?
People with money dont buy cobalts... as such, the cobalt community does not experiment with NA cobalts often. 90% of this board doesn't know anything about modding a car other than their own because they've never read through months of threads on another car's forums.
People with money dont buy cobalts... as such, the cobalt community does not experiment with NA cobalts often. 90% of this board doesn't know anything about modding a car other than their own because they've never read through months of threads on another car's forums.