auto 2.2 hp tuners garrett turbo
01-08-2008, 10:05 PM
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auto 2.2 hp tuners garrett turbo
well i contacted hp tuners and garret turbo and hp tuners said that they are working on the software for the 2.2 autos and to check back with them around march.. a line of bullshit? maybe.. from what i've heard they do like to lie just to get us to stop bothering them... garret says that their turbo kit will fit the auto but we have to find a way to tune ourselves cuz they have no plan to make the tune for us.. so aem piggy or mega squirt is bout our only option for now.. just thought i would share what i found out with everyone...
01-09-2008, 12:32 AM
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Good news for you 2.2 autos
I just wish they would come out with engine tuning!
01-09-2008, 12:34 AM
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01-09-2008, 09:59 AM
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01-09-2008, 12:38 PM
#8
I'm old school
Well I find this interesting.
First, to the original poster, the Garrett kit will fit, AND tune, your 2.2 auto engine. The ECM's for the manual and auto are the same. It's the trans controller that it doesn't have tuning for. You could very easily buy, install, and have that kit working right now. Your trans will act a little funny at slow speed shifts, but it will work normally under full throttle.
The trans module really doesn't need much tweeking in order to get it to work well with the turbo'ed engine, but it does need a little.
And then I saw were some typical responses to this kind of thread. And then, Foff posted. Now, that's the part that's curious to me. See, if you guys don't know it, Foff works for HPT. He was obviously retorting to the "lie" comment. But what would have been helpful is if he had also given a little insight as to whether or not the E16 ECM is in fact completely off the table or not.
First, to the original poster, the Garrett kit will fit, AND tune, your 2.2 auto engine. The ECM's for the manual and auto are the same. It's the trans controller that it doesn't have tuning for. You could very easily buy, install, and have that kit working right now. Your trans will act a little funny at slow speed shifts, but it will work normally under full throttle.
The trans module really doesn't need much tweeking in order to get it to work well with the turbo'ed engine, but it does need a little.
And then I saw were some typical responses to this kind of thread. And then, Foff posted. Now, that's the part that's curious to me. See, if you guys don't know it, Foff works for HPT. He was obviously retorting to the "lie" comment. But what would have been helpful is if he had also given a little insight as to whether or not the E16 ECM is in fact completely off the table or not.
Last edited by Halfcent; 01-12-2008 at 12:58 AM.
01-09-2008, 12:44 PM
#9
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Well I find this interesting.
First, to the original poster, the Garrett kit will fit, AND tune, your 2.2 auto engine. The ECM's for the manual and auto are the same. It's the trans controller that it doesn't have tuning for. You could very easily buy, install, and have that kit working right now. Your trans will act a little funny at slow speed shifts, but it will work normally under full throttle.
The trans module really doesn't need much tweeking in order to get it to work well with the turbo'ed engine, but it does need a little.
And then I saw were some typical responses to this kind of thread. And then, Foff posted. Now, that's the part that's curious to me. See, if you guys don't know it, Foff works for HPT. He was obviously retorting to the "lie" comment. But what would have been helpful is if he had also given a little insight as to whether or not the E16 ECM is in fact completely off the table or not.
First, to the original poster, the Garrett kit will fit, AND tune, your 2.2 auto engine. The ECM's for the manual and auto are the same. It's the trans controller that it doesn't have tuning for. You could very easily buy, install, and have that kit working right now. Your trans will act a little funny at slow speed shifts, but it will work normally under full throttle.
The trans module really doesn't need much tweeking in order to get it to work well with the turbo'ed engine, but it does need a little.
And then I saw were some typical responses to this kind of thread. And then, Foff posted. Now, that's the part that's curious to me. See, if you guys don't know it, Foff works for HPT. He was obviously retorting to the "lie" comment. But what would have been helpful is if he had also given a little insight as to whether or not the E16 ECM is in fact completely off the table or not.
Last edited by Halfcent; 01-12-2008 at 12:58 AM.
01-09-2008, 12:49 PM
#10
i was one of the people fighting for tuning on the 2.2 when i had mine still. the way it was explained to me when i brought up the same point was that they're not losing anything. the base model cobalt community is fairly small, and a very good percentage of people that buy the base model cobalt are old people that will never tune a car. of the younger people that want to mod their base model, few of them will put a turbo on. so there's not a large target market. so basically, by focussing their valuable time on a car that has little market, they're losing money because they are now not working on cars that have a much larger audience.
01-09-2008, 02:27 PM
#11
Well I find this interesting.
First, to the original poster, the Garrett kit will fit, AND tune, your 2.2 auto engine. The ECM's for the manual and auto are the same. It's the trans controller that it doesn't have tuning for. You could very easily buy, install, and have that kit working right now. Your trans will act a little funny at slow speed shifts, but it will work normally under full throttle.
The trans module really doesn't need much tweeking in order to get it to work well with the turbo'ed engine, but it does need a little.
And then I saw were some typical responses to this kind of thread. And then, Foff posted. Now, that's the part that's curious to me. See, if you guys don't know it, Foff works for HPT. He was obviously retorting to the "lie" comment. But what would have been helpful is if he had also given a little insight as to whether or not the E16 ECM is in fact completely off the table or not.
First, to the original poster, the Garrett kit will fit, AND tune, your 2.2 auto engine. The ECM's for the manual and auto are the same. It's the trans controller that it doesn't have tuning for. You could very easily buy, install, and have that kit working right now. Your trans will act a little funny at slow speed shifts, but it will work normally under full throttle.
The trans module really doesn't need much tweeking in order to get it to work well with the turbo'ed engine, but it does need a little.
And then I saw were some typical responses to this kind of thread. And then, Foff posted. Now, that's the part that's curious to me. See, if you guys don't know it, Foff works for HPT. He was obviously retorting to the "lie" comment. But what would have been helpful is if he had also given a little insight as to whether or not the E16 ECM is in fact completely off the table or not.
Prioritizing things is never easy when you basically need to say X pcm should get done before Y pcm such is the case with the E16.
Development times that can range between 6 months & a year or more in some cases can make anyone THINKING its a 1 month & done deal unhappy.
Im not making any promises but saying we lied to make people shut up is a lie, what we do try to do is give our best educated estimation of when we can look at something after that it depends on the complexity of the pcm & how much info we have on it at the time so we can determine if its a path we want to venture down at that time or at a later time.
-Bill
Last edited by Halfcent; 01-12-2008 at 12:59 AM.
01-11-2008, 10:48 PM
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Its not completely off the table & never has been but what most don't realize is how long development takes for a specific pcm especially one that was only used for 2 or 3 years such as the E16 as now GM has moved to the E37 pcm for most I4's & even some V6's.
Prioritizing things is never easy when you basically need to say X pcm should get done before Y pcm such is the case with the E16.
Development times that can range between 6 months & a year or more in some cases can make anyone THINKING its a 1 month & done deal unhappy.
Im not making any promises but saying we lied to make people shut up is a lie, what we do try to do is give our best educated estimation of when we can look at something after that it depends on the complexity of the pcm & how much info we have on it at the time so we can determine if its a path we want to venture down at that time or at a later time.
-Bill
Prioritizing things is never easy when you basically need to say X pcm should get done before Y pcm such is the case with the E16.
Development times that can range between 6 months & a year or more in some cases can make anyone THINKING its a 1 month & done deal unhappy.
Im not making any promises but saying we lied to make people shut up is a lie, what we do try to do is give our best educated estimation of when we can look at something after that it depends on the complexity of the pcm & how much info we have on it at the time so we can determine if its a path we want to venture down at that time or at a later time.
-Bill
Well I find this interesting.
First, to the original poster, the Garrett kit will fit, AND tune, your 2.2 auto engine. The ECM's for the manual and auto are the same. It's the trans controller that it doesn't have tuning for. You could very easily buy, install, and have that kit working right now. Your trans will act a little funny at slow speed shifts, but it will work normally under full throttle.
The trans module really doesn't need much tweeking in order to get it to work well with the turbo'ed engine, but it does need a little.
And then I saw were some typical responses to this kind of thread. And then, Foff posted. Now, that's the part that's curious to me. See, if you guys don't know it, Foff works for HPT. He was obviously retorting to the "lie" comment. But what would have been helpful is if he had also given a little insight as to whether or not the E16 ECM is in fact completely off the table or not.
First, to the original poster, the Garrett kit will fit, AND tune, your 2.2 auto engine. The ECM's for the manual and auto are the same. It's the trans controller that it doesn't have tuning for. You could very easily buy, install, and have that kit working right now. Your trans will act a little funny at slow speed shifts, but it will work normally under full throttle.
The trans module really doesn't need much tweeking in order to get it to work well with the turbo'ed engine, but it does need a little.
And then I saw were some typical responses to this kind of thread. And then, Foff posted. Now, that's the part that's curious to me. See, if you guys don't know it, Foff works for HPT. He was obviously retorting to the "lie" comment. But what would have been helpful is if he had also given a little insight as to whether or not the E16 ECM is in fact completely off the table or not.
Last edited by Halfcent; 01-12-2008 at 01:01 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
01-12-2008, 01:10 AM
#13
I'm old school
The problem lies in the less-then-WOT shifts (Wide Open Throttle). The shift program in the TCM is designed to provide a certain pressure shift based on the throttle position. The idea being that the car will shift appropriately to the rate of acceleration, providing a smooth ride.
At WOT, the trans shifts at full pressure. Full is full, you can't get any more then that. But lets say you are accelerating normally. Say at half throttle, the engine normally makes 80 horsepower. Well, the trans will shift to provide a smooth 80 HP acceleration. Now slap a turbo on there. At half throttle, the engine is now making 160 horsepower, but the trans doesn't know that, so it still provides an 80 HP shift. The result is a great deal of clutch pack slippage on the upshifts. This will cause your trans to wear out very quickly.
The programming you need to do is to simple increase the pressures of the shifts. Simple products like the B&M Shiftplus help, but are not controllable or programmable.
At WOT, the trans shifts at full pressure. Full is full, you can't get any more then that. But lets say you are accelerating normally. Say at half throttle, the engine normally makes 80 horsepower. Well, the trans will shift to provide a smooth 80 HP acceleration. Now slap a turbo on there. At half throttle, the engine is now making 160 horsepower, but the trans doesn't know that, so it still provides an 80 HP shift. The result is a great deal of clutch pack slippage on the upshifts. This will cause your trans to wear out very quickly.
The programming you need to do is to simple increase the pressures of the shifts. Simple products like the B&M Shiftplus help, but are not controllable or programmable.
01-12-2008, 01:28 AM
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Its not completely off the table & never has been but what most don't realize is how long development takes for a specific pcm especially one that was only used for 2 or 3 years such as the E16 as now GM has moved to the E37 pcm for most I4's & even some V6's.
Prioritizing things is never easy when you basically need to say X pcm should get done before Y pcm such is the case with the E16.
Development times that can range between 6 months & a year or more in some cases can make anyone THINKING its a 1 month & done deal unhappy.
Im not making any promises but saying we lied to make people shut up is a lie, what we do try to do is give our best educated estimation of when we can look at something after that it depends on the complexity of the pcm & how much info we have on it at the time so we can determine if its a path we want to venture down at that time or at a later time.
-Bill
Prioritizing things is never easy when you basically need to say X pcm should get done before Y pcm such is the case with the E16.
Development times that can range between 6 months & a year or more in some cases can make anyone THINKING its a 1 month & done deal unhappy.
Im not making any promises but saying we lied to make people shut up is a lie, what we do try to do is give our best educated estimation of when we can look at something after that it depends on the complexity of the pcm & how much info we have on it at the time so we can determine if its a path we want to venture down at that time or at a later time.
-Bill
Thanks for the response. I'll admit you guys have gotten on my nerves due to the lack of tuning for the E16. I know it's not your fault, if I was in your shoes I would concentrate on the larger markets where the money is at as well. I'd imagine its safe to say though that E37 support would precede E16 support if E16 support is ever developed.
I just hope you guys get on the ball when the 5th gen Camaro comes out. Hopefully I'll be having one in my garage around 2010/2011 or so
The problem lies in the less-then-WOT shifts (Wide Open Throttle). The shift program in the TCM is designed to provide a certain pressure shift based on the throttle position. The idea being that the car will shift appropriately to the rate of acceleration, providing a smooth ride.
At WOT, the trans shifts at full pressure. Full is full, you can't get any more then that. But lets say you are accelerating normally. Say at half throttle, the engine normally makes 80 horsepower. Well, the trans will shift to provide a smooth 80 HP acceleration. Now slap a turbo on there. At half throttle, the engine is now making 160 horsepower, but the trans doesn't know that, so it still provides an 80 HP shift. The result is a great deal of clutch pack slippage on the upshifts. This will cause your trans to wear out very quickly.
The programming you need to do is to simple increase the pressures of the shifts. Simple products like the B&M Shiftplus help, but are not controllable or programmable.
At WOT, the trans shifts at full pressure. Full is full, you can't get any more then that. But lets say you are accelerating normally. Say at half throttle, the engine normally makes 80 horsepower. Well, the trans will shift to provide a smooth 80 HP acceleration. Now slap a turbo on there. At half throttle, the engine is now making 160 horsepower, but the trans doesn't know that, so it still provides an 80 HP shift. The result is a great deal of clutch pack slippage on the upshifts. This will cause your trans to wear out very quickly.
The programming you need to do is to simple increase the pressures of the shifts. Simple products like the B&M Shiftplus help, but are not controllable or programmable.
While I'm in this thread. Halfcent, whats the status of your car? I know way back you were going for a turbo streetable auto 2.2, but I'd imagine the tuning situation has been an issue. What are your plans?
Last edited by tonio5555; 01-12-2008 at 01:28 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
01-12-2008, 11:17 AM
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The problem lies in the less-then-WOT shifts (Wide Open Throttle). The shift program in the TCM is designed to provide a certain pressure shift based on the throttle position. The idea being that the car will shift appropriately to the rate of acceleration, providing a smooth ride.
At WOT, the trans shifts at full pressure. Full is full, you can't get any more then that. But lets say you are accelerating normally. Say at half throttle, the engine normally makes 80 horsepower. Well, the trans will shift to provide a smooth 80 HP acceleration. Now slap a turbo on there. At half throttle, the engine is now making 160 horsepower, but the trans doesn't know that, so it still provides an 80 HP shift. The result is a great deal of clutch pack slippage on the upshifts. This will cause your trans to wear out very quickly.
The programming you need to do is to simple increase the pressures of the shifts. Simple products like the B&M Shiftplus help, but are not controllable or programmable.
At WOT, the trans shifts at full pressure. Full is full, you can't get any more then that. But lets say you are accelerating normally. Say at half throttle, the engine normally makes 80 horsepower. Well, the trans will shift to provide a smooth 80 HP acceleration. Now slap a turbo on there. At half throttle, the engine is now making 160 horsepower, but the trans doesn't know that, so it still provides an 80 HP shift. The result is a great deal of clutch pack slippage on the upshifts. This will cause your trans to wear out very quickly.
The programming you need to do is to simple increase the pressures of the shifts. Simple products like the B&M Shiftplus help, but are not controllable or programmable.
and someone said that hpt does support the auto trans but to me it just dont seem worth me paying that much for a program that cant do anymore than that for my car.. i want to do more than just turbo the car.. i want to build the whole engine up if the tuning capibilties ever comes around..
Last edited by yellowltcoupe22; 01-12-2008 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
01-12-2008, 11:30 AM
#16
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As far as I've seen with my B&M it makes enough diff in regular shifts to provide a little kick. At WOT it makes my tires chirp through 1st and 2nd.
You don't NEED tuning on the trans for an S/C setup since it will remain out of boost under regular driving. (That is if you're not an idiot of course)
I'm gonna stick with my Shift+ after my S/C install and see how things go from there. Should be interesting..
You don't NEED tuning on the trans for an S/C setup since it will remain out of boost under regular driving. (That is if you're not an idiot of course)
I'm gonna stick with my Shift+ after my S/C install and see how things go from there. Should be interesting..
01-12-2008, 11:49 AM
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As far as I've seen with my B&M it makes enough diff in regular shifts to provide a little kick. At WOT it makes my tires chirp through 1st and 2nd.
You don't NEED tuning on the trans for an S/C setup since it will remain out of boost under regular driving. (That is if you're not an idiot of course)
I'm gonna stick with my Shift+ after my S/C install and see how things go from there. Should be interesting..
You don't NEED tuning on the trans for an S/C setup since it will remain out of boost under regular driving. (That is if you're not an idiot of course)
I'm gonna stick with my Shift+ after my S/C install and see how things go from there. Should be interesting..
01-12-2008, 11:52 AM
#18
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No no. It doesn't tune per-say. It just stiffen's the shifting up a little bit.
It would work well with a S/C setup because you don't make boost under normal driving conditions. However with a turbo you don't have much choice to make more power when accellerating normally since the more rpm the faster the turbo spins.
I don't know if this is 100% true but it seems to make sense to me.
All I'm saying is you don't HAVE to tune your tranny. BUT if you want it to last longer and enhance performance it is recommended.
It would work well with a S/C setup because you don't make boost under normal driving conditions. However with a turbo you don't have much choice to make more power when accellerating normally since the more rpm the faster the turbo spins.
I don't know if this is 100% true but it seems to make sense to me.
All I'm saying is you don't HAVE to tune your tranny. BUT if you want it to last longer and enhance performance it is recommended.
01-12-2008, 12:02 PM
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No no. It doesn't tune per-say. It just stiffen's the shifting up a little bit.
It would work well with a S/C setup because you don't make boost under normal driving conditions. However with a turbo you don't have much choice to make more power when accellerating normally since the more rpm the faster the turbo spins.
I don't know if this is 100% true but it seems to make sense to me.
All I'm saying is you don't HAVE to tune your tranny. BUT if you want it to last longer and enhance performance it is recommended.
It would work well with a S/C setup because you don't make boost under normal driving conditions. However with a turbo you don't have much choice to make more power when accellerating normally since the more rpm the faster the turbo spins.
I don't know if this is 100% true but it seems to make sense to me.
All I'm saying is you don't HAVE to tune your tranny. BUT if you want it to last longer and enhance performance it is recommended.
01-12-2008, 03:09 PM
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I just bought my cobalt and I use to have a hatchback civic I got tired of driving a turd so i sold it and decided to buy a 07 cobalt lt auto and i dont know what parts are good and which ones suck, I heard gmpp parts were prolly the best(exhaust and headers) but i been lookin for turbos and internals. I saw that garret makes turbos but there is nothing to tune your car with. Can someone give me some options on which company makes the best parts.
01-12-2008, 03:14 PM
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I just bought my cobalt and I use to have a hatchback civic I got tired of driving a turd so i sold it and decided to buy a 07 cobalt lt auto and i dont know what parts are good and which ones suck, I heard gmpp parts were prolly the best(exhaust and headers) but i been lookin for turbos and internals. I saw that garret makes turbos but there is nothing to tune your car with. Can someone give me some options on which company makes the best parts.
01-12-2008, 03:55 PM
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from what im told the swap can be done but it cost way more than what its worth to do and if im not mistakin you would have to swap to a motor that came with a manual trans cuz the computers where only made to work with the type motor and trans the car came with.. you would probably be lookin at better than $4000 just to get all the stuff you need for the manual trans and labor to have it put in.. i was wanting to do the same thing myself untill i found out what all it involves.. imo it really sucks to have a auto trans cuz we cant do anything with them.. when hpt makes the soft ware we'll be able to do more with our cars then.. i think they will have the tune for your car pretty soon though..
01-12-2008, 04:27 PM
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