With porting and polishing a 2.2 what am I looking as a cost, 1. And gains, 2. And would I run into the same problem as with the cams being it would work best with tuning, 3. Discuss.

 

C'mon think about it -- why did you get an LS/LT instead of an SS/SC? To save money right -- $5K to $9K+? (my LS was $13,356 and I've added $2K+ in GM Accessories, GMPP parts, Modern Performance VC, and aftermarket aluminum wheels). My LS is the way I want it and it still cost me less than an SS/NA.
You are now talking about thousands of dollars in engine work, porting, cams and what not and will end up gaining maybe 50 more horsepower, without Nitrous, IF you're lucky -- and kiss your warranty goodbye. Why, so you can beat a FEW more car types? There will always be someone that can beat you simply because they start out with more engine and maybe more money.
Unless you have to rebuild your engine because it broke and you can't use your warranty, or you can get some sponsors and become a professional race car driver, put that money into your future instead -- education or property! You'll be WAY ahead of almost everyone else later in life.

 

Wow that statement was almost on topic If your not gonna give an answer to his question don't just post some crap about how he shoud have bought an SS cause maybe he did'nt have the money at the time and now he does.


Now for your question, I'm not really sure as far as cost but I would like to know as well since it was a mod I was also thinking about. I'm guessing though that you would gain some power from just bolting them on but I'm sure a tune wuld give you much greater gains especially if you have cams, intake, and full exhaust you should get some good gains

 

Can you be a little more specific on what you are wanting to port and polish? For example the head, or maybe the exhaust or intake manifold. Honing out your exhaust manifold would prob be the cheapest out of all, and with p&p of the head, there is a lot that can really be done and it can get costly also where you get it done would be crucial. As appealing as having a nice port job might sound, I really dont feel the cost would be worth it until you've covered a lot of bolt ons and tuning to take advantage of the different variables that change when doing head work. To answer at least one of your possible questions, there is no exact price to give on a p&p job for a head unless you buy one already done like the GM one.

 

You have somewhat of a point and I somewhat agree with what you're saying but of course, with the whole world of modifying, you're speaking in your opinion and from your point of view and not everyone else.

What you said to him could be easily said to people who have SS/SC cars...they could say "why buy an SS/SC and spend all that money into aftermarket parts when you could just buy an EVO (for example)?". It's all personal opinion.

As far as the gains he'll get, that's purely on what he plans on doing. All he stated was asking about port & polishing (assuming the cylinder head) and you automatically jumped to the conclusion that he'll be n/a forever and isn't anticipating the f/i route...which may or may not be true but he didn't state it in this topic.

What I partly agree with is that this is a big hobby and it also requires big money investments into such a terrible investment, a car. A car could be gone in a blink of a second and all your money that you invested with it as well. But it's a hobby, so you can't knock someone who picks a specific car, whether you think it's a total waste of time or an excellent platform, it's their vehicle, it's their money, it's their choices.

This thread wasn't meant to turn into a "why are you doing this to your 2.2?" thread...this is an enthusiast forum, so lets respect what he chooses to do whether you agree or disagree.

To Kyyankee, no one can answer your gains question. It's purely on what your setup is and how your vehicle reacts to it.

To your question about "tuning", the answer is yes. Anytime you change the amount of airflow (in this case, having more airflow enter your combustion chamber at one time), you're messing with your air to fuel ratio, so you need to adjust your fuel consumption as well. How you do it is another question by itself.

Cost, contact your local machine shop or you could check out companies like JBP or Patriot Performance. For my cylinder head on my sunfire, costed about $1200 for a full upgrade (minus camshafts) and that didn't include paying for installation. It's pricey but this goes for any motor and any internal motor change. The more serious you get with a vehicle, the more money it's going to cost you.

What I will say is think about what you are truely wanting out of your car and not just spend money to try and reach whatever you can...this is the mistake I made initially with my Sunfire.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

 

In all honesty I answered his question -- put the money into his future -- not what will become a used car. The gains he will achieve by spending thousands of dollars is not worth 50 or even a 100 horsepower. The computer system alone prevents the known modding possibilities from being done (big cam, open exhaust, and gear change). Mod the car with the available performance mods and leave the engine internals alone for now -- why get rid of the warranty now; so he can whip his friend's SI?

Time was when you could modify a car for less than a hundred dollars. Some of todays single performance mods cost more that the average young person makes in a week. If he sticks to the proven available parts he will gain more power than going after the unknowns. Modding is a great hobby -- but do those kinds of mods to a used or out-of-warranty car.

I think providing the kind of answer that would lead him to pour money into a car causing a debt in which he must climb out of is not a reasonable answer. In fact, I think that would be worse then telling him he should have bought an SS/SC.

 

I 100% agree with you in regards of finances and wasting more money than you make but in the same regards, you shouldn't be getting on him when there are people who are spending more money on their SS/SC and they are in worth about 10k more than the LS...they are warrantied...they are worth more money...why not the same speach to them? That's my point.

The fact is, let them do what they want to do, sure, talking about this is a good thing but I feel you're doing it in the wrong situation and in the wrong manner.

 

Fact is no matter what I write someone will do what they want. That's what this forum is supposed to be about -- to provide views. I have given my opinion -- which doesn't really amount to much. I've been driving, modding and racing cars for 30+ years, and been through a heck of a lot of what I've read on this site -- funny how absolutely nothing changes when it comes to cars and car people.

 

I fully understand where you are coming from, and trust me, I feel the same exact way but you are right, no matter what you say, people do what they want. I just feel that this is the wrong thread to go in the manner you did. I'd rather show people my experience and let them decide and make the right choices.

I still feel that you can modify your car but doing it wisely. Save while spending.

Just understand that I'm not saying you are wrong at all, I agree with you. I just think this is the wrong topic to be expressing it. Atleast give him an answer and then give him a question like "do you feel this is worth doing?" or something of that nature. Make the person think rather than giving your full opinion. It's a suggestion.

 

Well I am planning for the future, I got my written test results back for a city firefighter job that starts at 37000 a year for a 20 year old hs grad with ~35 credits and full and I mean full benefits, I think thats pretty damn good. just need to go whoop ass on the physical test and I'm in good and I am already budgeting stuff out apt. ~500mnth; utilites, gas, electric, cable, water, hispeed internet ~2-300 a mnth; car payment 235 mnth; insurance, ~150 mnth. So 1100 mnth=13k a year, less living expenses and investing a bit I think I'll have a but left over to set aside 200 a mnth or so to mod my car because it makes me happy and its what I want to do, my goal is to have a street-legal race car, an oxymoron yes, I want a car that is street legal but can put out enough power to take anything I come up against, road course, drag, show etc. I already figured that I want to put another 6-7k into my 11k car why? because it makes me happy and yes it will be my daily driver so yeah probally not the best investment but once I get it payed off I can pick so something else thats more reliable and has some better performance than a cobalt.


And anyways whats to say that I put all this $$ into my car and have a building collapse on me or flashover or something and me not be me anymore and the car wont be important anymore.

I know I went off of my own topic there but back to the issue at hand: HJHK, you think tuning would make me see the most/best gains from a P&P job of the head, yes?

Back on topic people. PM me or go to my lounge thread "another 'pointless' thread."


*********, that is all.

 

Do you mean street legal in a sense that you can drive on street tires or that you can pass emissions?

 

In ky you dont have to pass emissions but yes drive it on the streets legally and safely

 

Lucky bastards!

Ok gotcha.

 

Until I get this job thought I do because the car is registered to my raises back in pittsburgh and Pa has emissions and inspections

 

Did no one read what I posted, cus I saw someone repeat what I said right after my post. I guess what I posted got lost in all those posts that had nothing to do with the topic.

Tuning you will want cus you are changing a lot of the flow characteristics with p&p jobs. Bold, cus no one saw me say this the first time. Call me out if you want, but I do think I picked up a thing or two after rebuilding my last cars motor and turbo, oh and also the manual swap which ended up being rebuilt also. I understand the appeal of a p&p head but there is little practicality in doing it unless you are pumping a lot more air and fuel into the motor for the p&p job to be benefitial.

 

I read it and kyyankee probably did, we just got into a bit of a discussion. I agree with you.

 

there are a couple Ion guys that have gotten some light headwork and reported good gains and this is without a tune or cams. i believe another saturn owner did the headwork for them for about $800 I believe.

i was under the impression that the head flows pretty well as is...thoughts?

 

The stock head does flow well. The flattened round ports and the dual valves flow far more than a 2.2L needs. Unless you intend to SC/TC AND find a computer management system that will correctly control the fuel flow, the only honest-to-goodness advantage will be the ability to say that you have a Ported and Polished head. P&P heads work on the top end of the engine's RPM range -- with a redlined RPM of 6500 you will not be able to take advantage of this. Not just because of the computer system -- you will need to strengthen the valve train and the bottom end too -- it's not redlined because of air flow. If you've got the time, and someone's got the beer, get a loan and go for it.