Originally Posted by Witt
The entire system is monitored by a series of pressure sensors that compare actual pressure before and after the AIR pump to expected pressure. .
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The secondary air injection (AIR) system aids in the reduction of hydrocarbon emissions during a cold start. ***explanation of what it does yadda yadda***
A pressure sensor is used to monitor the air flow from the AIR pump. The control module supplies the internal pressure sensor with a 5-volt reference, and electrical ground, and a signal circuit. The AIR diagnostic uses 3 phases to test the AIR system: 1. DTCs P0411 and P2430 run during Phase 1. 2. DTCs P2430 and P2440 run during Phase 2. 3. DTCs P2444 runs during Phase 3. In all 3 phases, testing is accomplished by comparing the measured pressure against the expected pressure. The control module detects faults in the AIR pump, AIR control solenoid valve/pressure sensor assembly, and the exhaust check valve. The pressure sensor can also detect leaks and restrictions in the secondary AIR system plumbing. 2006 Helm/GM Service Manual for Cobalt/Pursuit, Volume 2 page 6-1701. :twothumbs |
short version: remove the AIR plumbing to the exhaust, you will throw an SES and I/M monitor will fail.
Edit: As for only monitoring O2 sensors, on a cold start, O2 sensors are disregarded as they don't show accurately at low temps. |
cold start has its own system in the ECM. The computer is preprogramed on what to do on a cold start situation. So technicly SAI should be disregarded too, as emissions are worse at cold start and fresh air would cool the cat making warm up take longer
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Where are you getting that from? And adding fresh air doesn't cool the cat. It adds oxygen to the unburnt gas in the exhaust and hence burns.
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Another direct quote from service manuals:
The Secondary Air Injection (AIR) System aids in the reduction of hydrocarbon exhaust emissions during a cold start-up. This occurs when the start-up engine coolant temperature (ECT) is between 5-50C (41-122F) and the intake air temperature (IAT) is between 5-60C (41-140F). The AIR pump operates 5-60 seconds after start-up. The AIR pump sends pressurized fresh air into the pipes/hoses through the open control/shut-off valve, and into the exhaust manifold. The extra air accelerates the catalyst operation, helping it to reach operating temperature faster. |
Originally Posted by Halfcent
Where are you getting that from? And adding fresh air doesn't cool the cat. It adds oxygen to the unburnt gas in the exhaust and hence burns.
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i know the original electric air pumps used in the mid 90's LT1's , came on at start up , and also at predetermined times while driving
and those early 1's are very similar to the new 1's they way they will work pacesetter does plan on a header made for the car with the air injection system , just gotta get the stock parts |
ok i stand corrected. sorry guys musta been smokin crack lol
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So will a 2005 2.0 LSJ downpipe switch out to a 2006 2.2 L61 or will SAI also prevent this swap?
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Not sure. There has been some discussion that the SAI car's have dual cat's (there is even a picture above) and that would mean a different downpipe. I'm hoping to get a look at one myself sometime soon.
However, looking at it, it appears that downpipes have the same geometery. There's just a second cat in there. If the pipes are the same geometry, then yes, even though there is a second cat, it will still fit. And it should even work normally. |
Originally Posted by Halfcent
Not sure. There has been some discussion that the SAI car's have dual cat's (there is even a picture above) and that would mean a different downpipe. I'm hoping to get a look at one myself sometime soon.
However, looking at it, it appears that downpipes have the same geometery. There's just a second cat in there. If the pipes are the same geometry, then yes, even though there is a second cat, it will still fit. And it should even work normally. Thanks Halfcent, come the Springtime I'm going to give this swap a shot. |
Originally Posted by tonio5555
Thanks Halfcent, come the Springtime I'm going to give this swap a shot.
fitment should be the same... the downpipe has exactly the same measurements, just with an additional cat... bolt patterns and pipe diameter/length are exactly the same.. |
Originally Posted by D4u2s0t
fitment should be the same... the downpipe has exactly the same measurements, just with an additional cat... bolt patterns and pipe diameter/length are exactly the same..
Did your DP swap throw a CEL? Also where did you get your shorty antenna, does anyone in NJ have them for 06 Cobalts or did you order online? |
Originally Posted by tonio5555
Did your DP swap throw a CEL? Also where did you get your shorty antenna, does anyone in NJ have them for 06 Cobalts or did you order online?
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Does anyone in North NJ/NY area have a 2.2/2.4 intake without SAI (stock or aftermarket) I could "borrow" some afternoon in the spring? My plan is to swap out my manifold for a non SAI manifold and also to swap intake in order to delete to factory SAI system. I'll run the motor and take the car for a spin, possibly a good long drive to see if the removal of SAI will throw a CEL or cause any other problems. I'd just go ahead and purchase an aftermarket intake as I had planned to, but if I'm not going to be able to use it I don't want to be $250 in the hole.
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you will get a CEL for deleteing the air injection , it wont be right away , but youll get it
unless you use hp tuners or something and program the pcm to ignore the code also if you gotta go through inspection/emissions , you will fail unless the guy doesnt catch it |
Originally Posted by 97cavie24ls
(Post 713042)
you will get a CEL for deleteing the air injection , it wont be right away , but youll get it
unless you use hp tuners or something and program the pcm to ignore the code also if you gotta go through inspection/emissions , you will fail unless the guy doesnt catch it True, howver I could always find some way to clear the code, or I could retrofit an exhaust manifold so that I can hook up the SAI to it. I have an LSJ manifold that I'd be willing to play around with, how exactly could I route the SAI into it. Would the drilling work be overly difficult? |
You simply would not be able to modify a manifold to work. It flow air around the outside of the exhaust ports inside the flange.
Your best bet was option A. A full delete. Replace the intake, header, and downpipe. Then reflash your computer with a program that doesn't use it. The first part is easy. The reflash is hard. Soon, SCT Flash will be able to do that for you. For now, you would have to try to get an older software version from GM that doesn't have SAI, but I don't think that would work since your VIN is stored in the ECM. |
Originally Posted by Halfcent
(Post 716259)
You simply would not be able to modify a manifold to work. It flow air around the outside of the exhaust ports inside the flange.
Your best bet was option A. A full delete. Replace the intake, header, and downpipe. Then reflash your computer with a program that doesn't use it. The first part is easy. The reflash is hard. Soon, SCT Flash will be able to do that for you. For now, you would have to try to get an older software version from GM that doesn't have SAI, but I don't think that would work since your VIN is stored in the ECM. |
just to let you all know my 2007 which was built 11/2006 has the SAI just though i would let everyone know its possible
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I have an Injen CAI and I was looking at my SAI tube (hard plastic part near end) and I noticed it rubbed against the belt and had a hole in it. So I got the idea to terminate the SAI line before the hard plastic tube (end of the rubber tube behind radiator) and slap the breather filter that was on there before back on it. Now I figured just because I moved the filter back by few inches that nothing bad would happen. Wrong. I got a CEL this morning when I started cold. I started the engine and I heard the SAI pump hissing for a few seconds and then the CEL popped up. So tomorrow I'm gunna take it in the shop at school tomorrow and see what the scan tool says about it. Any ideas?
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yay.. thanks to this tread I realized I dont have the SAI on my 07 2.2 balt..I've been wanting to get a CAI and thought I couldnt because of the SAI..
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i work at a gm dealer and i talk to one of the mechanic who is maSter certified in pretty much eveything if it would be possible to delete the sai system and reprogram. he said he is going to read what everyone here has said, do some research on his end and let me know what he comes up with. so i will keep you guys posted.
This Is What We Are Going To Do. We Are Going To Reprogram The Ecm For A 2.2 W/o Sai And Disable The Sai System, Them Drive Like This For A Couple Days To See What Happens. |
I can tell you what he will learn...
He will find that the hardware can most certainly be deleted. You would need to cap off the outlet on the air box or use a non-SAI airbox (or aftermarket intake) and replace the exhaust manifold with a non-SAI. But then the ECM is going to cause a CEL due to the air pump no longer being installed, and without the ability to flash tune that ECM, there will be no way to get rid of that CEL. |
But If We Are Reprogramming The Ecm With A Ecm Program From A Vehicle That Does Not Have Sai It Should Work In Theory
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Originally Posted by will_b_shady
(Post 1054340)
But If We Are Reprogramming The Ecm With A Ecm Program From A Vehicle That Does Not Have Sai It Should Work In Theory
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Originally Posted by will_b_shady
(Post 1054340)
But If We Are Reprogramming The Ecm With A Ecm Program From A Vehicle That Does Not Have Sai It Should Work In Theory
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From Gm I Work At A Dealership
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the issue is not with the pcm. its the bcm, in theory you could flash a new vin in the pcm ,but then the car wont start due to the vin difference in the bcm which is not reflash able.the bcm contains the passkey III info
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Originally Posted by mrgoodwrench78
(Post 1068336)
but then the car wont start due to the vin difference in the bcm which is not reflash able.the bcm contains the passkey III info
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Why can't the BCM be flashed? I know for a fact there are TSB's with BCM reflashes.
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so does this mean that us 2.2s with the SAI's can't do anything to our engines without failing emissions?
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It means that at present, you can't do anything to your exhaust manifold. That's all.
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ok so reprogram is under way we will see what happens and i will keep you all posted
Ok So Reprogram Done And No Problems Yet I Am Going To Drive For A Couple Of Days To See What Happens. There May Be Light At The End Of The Tunnel After All |
Shady... what reprogram are you talking about? Details
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Originally Posted by OrngBalt
(Post 1106883)
Shady... what reprogram are you talking about? Details
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oooh, so we wouldnt trip a CEL... Hmmm this could open things up. I am guessing you have removed the stock intake and header?
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Originally Posted by OrngBalt
(Post 1106893)
oooh, so we wouldnt trip a CEL... Hmmm this could open things up. I am guessing you have removed the stock intake and header?
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Keep me updated... If this works I would be very interested.
If you are able to eliminate the CEL than I think alot of us 2.2 guys would be ecstatic... We can just fully remove the system replace the intake and header and be much happier. I imagine we would still pass emissions since other models do without this pain in the ass system... anybody else have any input? **what was the work you did to remove the pump? I didn't realize there was a pump. |
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