Lightweight Crank Pulley
The stock "pulley" IS the Harmonic Balancer. You remove the stock pulley... you remove the harmonic balancer. There is a reason that the ATI Harmonic Balancer for the ECOTEC costs $400+.
Senior Member
Joined: 08-23-07
Posts: 5,265
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From: Chandler AZ
Guess I'm thinking of something different then. The engine is internally balanced, I go to 7k RPM's daily, It's been on for over 2 years now. If something was gonna happen it would have already happened. And I've never heard of the ATI harmonic balancer, nor do I really care about it lol.
You know anyone other than this 'insider' who grenaded their motors using one?
You know anyone other than this 'insider' who grenaded their motors using one?
Guess I'm thinking of something different then. The engine is internally balanced, I go to 7k RPM's daily, It's been on for over 2 years now. If something was gonna happen it would have already happened. And I've never heard of the ATI harmonic balancer, nor do I really care about it lol.
You know anyone other than this 'insider' who grenaded their motors using one?
You know anyone other than this 'insider' who grenaded their motors using one?
Guess I'm thinking of something different then. The engine is internally balanced, I go to 7k RPM's daily, It's been on for over 2 years now. If something was gonna happen it would have already happened. And I've never heard of the ATI harmonic balancer, nor do I really care about it lol.
You know anyone other than this 'insider' who grenaded their motors using one?
You know anyone other than this 'insider' who grenaded their motors using one?
lotta misinformation here....
If the rotating assembly is internally balanced, then there is nothing wrong with using a lightweight crank or an underdrive crank either. That is what defines an internally or externally balanced motor. The biggest issues will likely come from improper sealing at the crank which may allow oil to leak out. However, I don't know for certain if the ecotecs are internally or externally balanced.
USMC, why not just say Powell? Everyone on the forum excluding members who have been here less than a year know who he is... You make it sound all secretive...lol
If the rotating assembly is internally balanced, then there is nothing wrong with using a lightweight crank or an underdrive crank either. That is what defines an internally or externally balanced motor. The biggest issues will likely come from improper sealing at the crank which may allow oil to leak out. However, I don't know for certain if the ecotecs are internally or externally balanced.
USMC, why not just say Powell? Everyone on the forum excluding members who have been here less than a year know who he is... You make it sound all secretive...lol
ditto i second that
i have had my mrz crank and alt pulley on for almost a year and a half with no problems and also had them on my cavalier..
Whoever said there are problems with doing this please explain
you caught my interest...
lotta misinformation here....
If the rotating assembly is internally balanced, then there is nothing wrong with using a lightweight crank or an underdrive crank either. That is what defines an internally or externally balanced motor. The biggest issues will likely come from improper sealing at the crank which may allow oil to leak out. However, I don't know for certain if the ecotecs are internally or externally balanced.
USMC, why not just say Powell? Everyone on the forum excluding members who have been here less than a year know who he is... You make it sound all secretive...lol
If the rotating assembly is internally balanced, then there is nothing wrong with using a lightweight crank or an underdrive crank either. That is what defines an internally or externally balanced motor. The biggest issues will likely come from improper sealing at the crank which may allow oil to leak out. However, I don't know for certain if the ecotecs are internally or externally balanced.
USMC, why not just say Powell? Everyone on the forum excluding members who have been here less than a year know who he is... You make it sound all secretive...lol
And I've discussed this with a GM Performance employee/engineer, as well. It was either at CED 2010 or Mid-Ohio... I forget where it was.The Ecotec is internally balanced. You still need something to absorb vibrations in the crank caused from the pistons firing and torque flowing through everything. That's why the stock pulley is still a Harmonic Balancer. The problem with removing the Harmonic Balancer is that it leaves the crank open to vibration/resonance. That's what causes stress resulting in crankshaft failure. The Harmonic Balancer doesn't deal with the balance of the rotating assembly.
There is no set time for things to fall apart either. It could happen in 5 years... could happen in 5 days. The Ecotec is an amazing engine... so that helps things out, but it doesn't make it immune.
And as I said above. I'm just putting the information presented to me out there to help others out... if someone wants to listen to it, good for them. If not, I don't care... its not my engine.
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Joined: 05-07-08
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From: Northeast Ohio, In the Lake
False. The stock Harmonic Balancer should only be replaced with ANOTHER Harmonic Balancer.
High RPM's are what will cause the most stress... that's when the most vibrations will be present. If all you ever do is putt around... you probably won't run into any problem soon. There is no time table for when your motor will tear itself apart. But I guarantee you that you ARE damaging your motor. The vibrations WILL harm things.
I get my info on this from an insider. You can either listen to it... or not. Your choice. But he was very instrumental in the development of the Race Teams and the Time Attack Car. They nuked a couple motor in that development... the only thing that changed to prevent the motors from failing was the Harmonic Balancer/lightweight flywheel combo. See my first post in this thread.
High RPM's are what will cause the most stress... that's when the most vibrations will be present. If all you ever do is putt around... you probably won't run into any problem soon. There is no time table for when your motor will tear itself apart. But I guarantee you that you ARE damaging your motor. The vibrations WILL harm things.
I get my info on this from an insider. You can either listen to it... or not. Your choice. But he was very instrumental in the development of the Race Teams and the Time Attack Car. They nuked a couple motor in that development... the only thing that changed to prevent the motors from failing was the Harmonic Balancer/lightweight flywheel combo. See my first post in this thread.
Originally Posted by Crate Engine Deport
Ecotec Billet Crankshaft Pulley GM p/n88958631
Item #88958631 88958631 Ecotec Billet Crankshaft Pulley
This pulley is designed for the L61 and LE5 engines only.
MSRP: $680.00 Your Price: $612.00
Item #88958631 88958631 Ecotec Billet Crankshaft Pulley
This pulley is designed for the L61 and LE5 engines only.
MSRP: $680.00 Your Price: $612.00
Originally Posted by From GM
These hardened oil pump drive gears are a direct replacement for your stock oil pump gears. When extended time is spend on your rev limiter, or 2 step rev limiter, failure of your stock oil pump drive gears can occur due to the expansion of the crank pulley. The expansion is just enough to crack or shatter the inner drive gear and damage your engine. These hardened gears are a direct replacement and eliminate the fear of causing further engine damage.
Last edited by -MD- HHR; Jan 17, 2011 at 11:20 AM.
I usually don't like name dropping... no matter who it is. And I've discussed this with a GM Performance employee/engineer, as well. It was either at CED 2010 or Mid-Ohio... I forget where it was.
The Ecotec is internally balanced. You still need something to absorb vibrations in the crank caused from the pistons firing and torque flowing through everything. That's why the stock pulley is still a Harmonic Balancer. The problem with removing the Harmonic Balancer is that it leaves the crank open to vibration/resonance. That's what causes stress resulting in crankshaft failure. The Harmonic Balancer doesn't deal with the balance of the rotating assembly.
There is no set time for things to fall apart either. It could happen in 5 years... could happen in 5 days. The Ecotec is an amazing engine... so that helps things out, but it doesn't make it immune.
And as I said above. I'm just putting the information presented to me out there to help others out... if someone wants to listen to it, good for them. If not, I don't care... its not my engine.
And I've discussed this with a GM Performance employee/engineer, as well. It was either at CED 2010 or Mid-Ohio... I forget where it was.The Ecotec is internally balanced. You still need something to absorb vibrations in the crank caused from the pistons firing and torque flowing through everything. That's why the stock pulley is still a Harmonic Balancer. The problem with removing the Harmonic Balancer is that it leaves the crank open to vibration/resonance. That's what causes stress resulting in crankshaft failure. The Harmonic Balancer doesn't deal with the balance of the rotating assembly.
There is no set time for things to fall apart either. It could happen in 5 years... could happen in 5 days. The Ecotec is an amazing engine... so that helps things out, but it doesn't make it immune.
And as I said above. I'm just putting the information presented to me out there to help others out... if someone wants to listen to it, good for them. If not, I don't care... its not my engine.
So the Billet Crank pulley that GM sells is very bad idea, huh. The reason GM discontinued it is was it was $699.99 a piece if I remember correctly.
The reason GM was having motor problems was the non-harmonicly balanced crank pulleys were expanding during HIGH RPM use and with a two step, and taking out the oil pump gears. GM now offers hardened gears. If you look in the original GM engine build books these gears are not in there.
Yes, there will be added wear on your bearings from a non-harmonic crank pulley, but no one knows how much. People have run straight up aluminum crank pulleys for 100,000+ of miles on their ecotecs with no problem. I would recommend MRZ new ones. The ones with a steel ring to ensure your oil seal doesn't wear a groove, and cause an oil leak. Also RKSport has been making aluminum L61 crank pulleys since 2004ish with little to no issues.
The reason GM was having motor problems was the non-harmonicly balanced crank pulleys were expanding during HIGH RPM use and with a two step, and taking out the oil pump gears. GM now offers hardened gears. If you look in the original GM engine build books these gears are not in there.
Yes, there will be added wear on your bearings from a non-harmonic crank pulley, but no one knows how much. People have run straight up aluminum crank pulleys for 100,000+ of miles on their ecotecs with no problem. I would recommend MRZ new ones. The ones with a steel ring to ensure your oil seal doesn't wear a groove, and cause an oil leak. Also RKSport has been making aluminum L61 crank pulleys since 2004ish with little to no issues.
Removing the harmonic balancer and running a solid lightweight pulley is not a good idea.
There is a reason that virtually every engine built for endurance (IE: not drag engines) whether it be production or pro racing has a harmonic balancer on it. running without one allow any intrinsic vibration forces the engine creates to act on the engine, whether that causes increased wear, shorter part life cycle or catastrophic failure depends on myriad things but it does happen.
If it didnt happen than you could be sure that OE's and race teams alike would be the first to use the cheaper, easier to produce and potentially horsepower freeing solid pulleys.
There is a reason that virtually every engine built for endurance (IE: not drag engines) whether it be production or pro racing has a harmonic balancer on it. running without one allow any intrinsic vibration forces the engine creates to act on the engine, whether that causes increased wear, shorter part life cycle or catastrophic failure depends on myriad things but it does happen.
If it didnt happen than you could be sure that OE's and race teams alike would be the first to use the cheaper, easier to produce and potentially horsepower freeing solid pulleys.
All of this has been discussed and debated in great detail several times. lets just end this thread and let people do their own research and make up their own minds.
it seems you guys have no actual proof that the lightweight crank pulley is bad for the engine.
ill take the proof over what u guys say. also, when i used to own a 06 civic si, there was a lot of talk about the NST lightweight pulley set. pretty much the worry was the same thing we have here. no harmonic dampner yadda yadda yadda. well upon further investigation theres people whove had them for years. 60k+ miles and not one problem. i have not found one guy who has had engine failure due to the lack of a harmonic dampner in their lightweight pulley. k20's are also internally balanced and keep in mind they rev a hell of a lot more than an lnf, lsj, 2.2 etc.
unless you can prove to us that lightweight pulleys without a harmonic dampner IS bad, dont preach. also, some cars dont even come with harmonic dampners so im pretty sure u run a greater risk of just getting a tune than u do with a lightweight pulley.
ill take the proof over what u guys say. also, when i used to own a 06 civic si, there was a lot of talk about the NST lightweight pulley set. pretty much the worry was the same thing we have here. no harmonic dampner yadda yadda yadda. well upon further investigation theres people whove had them for years. 60k+ miles and not one problem. i have not found one guy who has had engine failure due to the lack of a harmonic dampner in their lightweight pulley. k20's are also internally balanced and keep in mind they rev a hell of a lot more than an lnf, lsj, 2.2 etc.
unless you can prove to us that lightweight pulleys without a harmonic dampner IS bad, dont preach. also, some cars dont even come with harmonic dampners
so im pretty sure u run a greater risk of just getting a tune than u do with a lightweight pulley.
Last edited by Dart_SI; Jan 21, 2011 at 07:26 AM.
Joined: 09-29-06
Posts: 20,662
Likes: 216
From: Land of Freedom
What about neutral balance shafts?!
Everyone talks about blowing their motor but I've yet to hear about someone on here who blew the bottom end directly relating to a lwcp. And don't you think if someone did That they would be preaching in everyone of these threads
All hearsay of I know this person who said this or I know That person who said that or some moron quotes ati website and the externally balanced BMW post.
Everyone talks about blowing their motor but I've yet to hear about someone on here who blew the bottom end directly relating to a lwcp. And don't you think if someone did That they would be preaching in everyone of these threads
All hearsay of I know this person who said this or I know That person who said that or some moron quotes ati website and the externally balanced BMW post.
Just because a motor is still running after 60k miles... doesn't mean that damage isn't being done.
NO ONE has said that you are going to destroy a motor after x number of miles. Just that damage is being done. That is the simple point being made. Ecotec is a stout motor. It might take 5 years or 200,000 miles of daily driving/occasional redlining for it to destroy the motor... it might not ever destroy the motor. It might just weaken key components like the crank, but not to the point of failure at the power levels you are producing.
As was said by Maven and myself... its a requirement for the endurance racers. The Race Teams found that out the hard way. Most Cobalt owners will never spend that kind of time around redline. But that'd be something to keep in mind for anyone that might do NASA or SCCA style racing.
NO ONE has said that you are going to destroy a motor after x number of miles. Just that damage is being done. That is the simple point being made. Ecotec is a stout motor. It might take 5 years or 200,000 miles of daily driving/occasional redlining for it to destroy the motor... it might not ever destroy the motor. It might just weaken key components like the crank, but not to the point of failure at the power levels you are producing.
As was said by Maven and myself... its a requirement for the endurance racers. The Race Teams found that out the hard way. Most Cobalt owners will never spend that kind of time around redline. But that'd be something to keep in mind for anyone that might do NASA or SCCA style racing.
Joined: 09-29-06
Posts: 20,662
Likes: 216
From: Land of Freedom
the average joe isnt going to keep the car more than 5-6 years tops. and is going to be your weekend warrior to the track, some spiritied pulls on the highway and probably some burnouts.
the only problem that these pulleys have given was leaky seals due to a fault that was corrected by the company.
the only problem that these pulleys have given was leaky seals due to a fault that was corrected by the company.
Just because a motor is still running after 60k miles... doesn't mean that damage isn't being done.
NO ONE has said that you are going to destroy a motor after x number of miles. Just that damage is being done. That is the simple point being made. Ecotec is a stout motor. It might take 5 years or 200,000 miles of daily driving/occasional redlining for it to destroy the motor... it might not ever destroy the motor. It might just weaken key components like the crank, but not to the point of failure at the power levels you are producing.
As was said by Maven and myself... its a requirement for the endurance racers. The Race Teams found that out the hard way. Most Cobalt owners will never spend that kind of time around redline. But that'd be something to keep in mind for anyone that might do NASA or SCCA style racing.
NO ONE has said that you are going to destroy a motor after x number of miles. Just that damage is being done. That is the simple point being made. Ecotec is a stout motor. It might take 5 years or 200,000 miles of daily driving/occasional redlining for it to destroy the motor... it might not ever destroy the motor. It might just weaken key components like the crank, but not to the point of failure at the power levels you are producing.
As was said by Maven and myself... its a requirement for the endurance racers. The Race Teams found that out the hard way. Most Cobalt owners will never spend that kind of time around redline. But that'd be something to keep in mind for anyone that might do NASA or SCCA style racing.
now if you could get someone on here who has personally fucked up their motor from the lwcp, let me know. but anyway, problem solved. driving down the road in winter will do more damage to your car than these pullies will.
this arguement got nowhere.
unless anyone is using their cobalt as a race car only, there is no need to worry about these pullies. theres honda guys using similar pullies and they rev up to 10,000 rpm and track the car, no problems.
now if you could get someone on here who has personally fucked up their motor from the lwcp, let me know. but anyway, problem solved. driving down the road in winter will do more damage to your car than these pullies will.
this arguement got nowhere.
now if you could get someone on here who has personally fucked up their motor from the lwcp, let me know. but anyway, problem solved. driving down the road in winter will do more damage to your car than these pullies will.
this arguement got nowhere.
