Freshly installed ZZP SC Kit, cranks but won't fire
11-13-2010, 08:05 PM
#1
Freshly installed ZZP SC Kit, cranks but won't fire
Evening,
Spent the weekend installing ZZPs Stage 1 Supercharger Kit on my 07 2.4L Cobalt SS and finally finished the bolt-ons this afternoon. Performed the PCM relearn and to my surprise it worked fine. Now it cranks over but won't do anything but a quick sputter before it dies. I've pulled the plugs and checked for spark, ok. Checked fuel pressure on the rail and it had good pressure (one blew off and spit gas over the engine bay).
Tried pulling the battery a couple times in the hopes of it being some sort of pcm issue. No dice.
Right now I've got the plugs out and am letting them dry in case the engine got flooded, although it doesn't look like that is the case.
ZZPs instructions leave much to the imagination, but with common sense it all figures itself out. I've checked all my electrical fittings, all fuses, pretty much everything I've added from the ZZP kit...the final instruction from ZZP looks like this: Notes: If your car starts at any time and stays running, you are done. If your car starts and dies, try step 9. If it dies after 2 seconds after you have done these steps, you either have a bad FP resistor or the security setting in your PCM is wrong and it will need an update.
Now since they flashed the PCM themselves I'm hoping that the security setting is correct. FP resistor I don't know what that is...google didn't show me much.
I'm hoping to get it running tonight, if not I'll be buying a code reader first thing tomorrow morning. Any good ideas in the mean time I'll definitely give them a try.
Spent the weekend installing ZZPs Stage 1 Supercharger Kit on my 07 2.4L Cobalt SS and finally finished the bolt-ons this afternoon. Performed the PCM relearn and to my surprise it worked fine. Now it cranks over but won't do anything but a quick sputter before it dies. I've pulled the plugs and checked for spark, ok. Checked fuel pressure on the rail and it had good pressure (one blew off and spit gas over the engine bay).
Tried pulling the battery a couple times in the hopes of it being some sort of pcm issue. No dice.
Right now I've got the plugs out and am letting them dry in case the engine got flooded, although it doesn't look like that is the case.
ZZPs instructions leave much to the imagination, but with common sense it all figures itself out. I've checked all my electrical fittings, all fuses, pretty much everything I've added from the ZZP kit...the final instruction from ZZP looks like this: Notes: If your car starts at any time and stays running, you are done. If your car starts and dies, try step 9. If it dies after 2 seconds after you have done these steps, you either have a bad FP resistor or the security setting in your PCM is wrong and it will need an update.
Now since they flashed the PCM themselves I'm hoping that the security setting is correct. FP resistor I don't know what that is...google didn't show me much.
I'm hoping to get it running tonight, if not I'll be buying a code reader first thing tomorrow morning. Any good ideas in the mean time I'll definitely give them a try.
11-14-2010, 11:19 AM
#2
So the OBD scan gives me this:
P0315-Crank Position System Variation not learned.
I have this code as stored and as pending in my scanner so it shows as 2 DTCs with the same code. I was under the impression the car would start with this code, no?
No other codes present.
P0315-Crank Position System Variation not learned.
I have this code as stored and as pending in my scanner so it shows as 2 DTCs with the same code. I was under the impression the car would start with this code, no?
No other codes present.
11-14-2010, 01:13 PM
#5
FP Resistor....Fuel Pump Resistor? If I've read correctly the PCM runs @ 12v upon start up then switches over to the resistor AFTER starting...so I doubt that is my problem.
Just talked to my local Trifecta dude, Graham Thorpe from the Montreal region as insurance. He suggested trying the old PCM to see if would at least idle or stutter to rule out 100% my install. No go, but it smelled of gas after trying which is something the ZZP PCM hasn't given me. Also the old PCM gave no codes whatsoever, which is expected I suppose unless it had started running.
I think this tuned PCM might be hosed. I like that the trifecta tune gives me the option of a crank relearn in addition to a what ought to be a solid, dependable tune. Haven't heard a bad word about trifecta.
Just talked to my local Trifecta dude, Graham Thorpe from the Montreal region as insurance. He suggested trying the old PCM to see if would at least idle or stutter to rule out 100% my install. No go, but it smelled of gas after trying which is something the ZZP PCM hasn't given me. Also the old PCM gave no codes whatsoever, which is expected I suppose unless it had started running.
I think this tuned PCM might be hosed. I like that the trifecta tune gives me the option of a crank relearn in addition to a what ought to be a solid, dependable tune. Haven't heard a bad word about trifecta.
11-14-2010, 01:35 PM
#6
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do you got a vacuum leak? my car did the same when i installed my turbo kit. the o-rings that went around the fuel injectors were too small and the car would barely start up and die. for it to even think about stayin on i had to floor the thing and even then it still had a hard time stayin alive
11-14-2010, 02:46 PM
#8
Just got an email back from the Trifecta tuner, they can do this tune. We all knew that of course but he wanted to be 100% sure. It can be here by Tuesday at the earliest or likely Wednesday.
A big decision, more money out for an outcome that isn't certain. I could do a trifecta tune and it still may not start...
I'm going to check tonight: MAP sensor, make sure it is the 2 Bar version. O-rings on the injectors...
A big decision, more money out for an outcome that isn't certain. I could do a trifecta tune and it still may not start...
I'm going to check tonight: MAP sensor, make sure it is the 2 Bar version. O-rings on the injectors...
11-14-2010, 04:59 PM
#9
Pictures:
MAP, hope this is a 2 Bar...
MAF, in the right direction
Evap to TB
Evap itself
Open Port on the SC bypass
Fuses & Relays, all fuses A-ok
New injectors and old injectors, 0-rings look the right size...cleaned and lithium greased them again to be sure.
MAP connections, nice and tight
Brake assist
Valve cover breather
MAP, hope this is a 2 Bar...
MAF, in the right direction
Evap to TB
Evap itself
Open Port on the SC bypass
Fuses & Relays, all fuses A-ok
New injectors and old injectors, 0-rings look the right size...cleaned and lithium greased them again to be sure.
MAP connections, nice and tight
Brake assist
Valve cover breather
11-14-2010, 07:36 PM
#15
After scouring the web I have a picture of the 2 BAR sensor:
Part #s lines up but the 4 digit stamped # does not. I wonder if the stamped # is some kind of dating code or something...likely 2005 manufacture on the 32nd day of the year?
If it is just a date code my MAP sensor is likely correct.
Damn.
Part #s lines up but the 4 digit stamped # does not. I wonder if the stamped # is some kind of dating code or something...likely 2005 manufacture on the 32nd day of the year?
If it is just a date code my MAP sensor is likely correct.
Damn.
11-14-2010, 09:55 PM
#17
That is preposterous Corn! What could they know that the interwebs collective cobaltss braintrust doesn't? Hmmm? 
2 emails, but I didn't start this until Friday night @ 8:30PM...no replies yet.
NOW, IT STARTS. Swapped out the new 39#s injectors for the stockers, fired up first try and was able to rev it a bit but she won't idle and spudders to a untimely demise. A few more tries and it is clear she is not tuned for stock injectors, though she fires every single time.
Phew. I need a big fat spliff, and I don't even smoke the stuff.
I need to try new injectors STAT.
2 emails, but I didn't start this until Friday night @ 8:30PM...no replies yet.
NOW, IT STARTS. Swapped out the new 39#s injectors for the stockers, fired up first try and was able to rev it a bit but she won't idle and spudders to a untimely demise. A few more tries and it is clear she is not tuned for stock injectors, though she fires every single time.
Phew. I need a big fat spliff, and I don't even smoke the stuff.
I need to try new injectors STAT.
11-14-2010, 10:34 PM
#18
According to ZZPs website, 33#s are 42% larger than stock and require an injector constant modifier of 1.42 via HPTuners. So the 39#s included in the Stage 1 kit would have a modifier of 1.70, meaning if I put the stockers back in the tune would be farked. And it is, but it started so I'm almost thrilled.
Bosch Ford racing 39#s that I priced out at $250 for 8 online that I believe are what model ZZP uses (Ford logo printed right on the side of them, lol), I'm sure if I hit a Ford stealership I could seriously get my a$$$ raped and bleed dry with msrp pricing.
ZZP gets an earful tomorrow morning, Stevey needs to come through here as I've been very, very patient with ZZP. He's even admitted as much.
Bosch Ford racing 39#s that I priced out at $250 for 8 online that I believe are what model ZZP uses (Ford logo printed right on the side of them, lol), I'm sure if I hit a Ford stealership I could seriously get my a$$$ raped and bleed dry with msrp pricing.
ZZP gets an earful tomorrow morning, Stevey needs to come through here as I've been very, very patient with ZZP. He's even admitted as much.
11-15-2010, 12:11 PM
#19
So I was putting together a video of the old injectors and how it stutters and was swapping out the old ones for the new ones on video to show how it won't fire with the 39#s...turned the key and she fired up!!! WTF??? I'll take it, getting a cylinder #4 misfire error as the only code beyond the crank relearn so that is good news if I can figure it out.
Went for a drive, not sure if all 4 cylinders are firing so I wasn't going to flog it but it makes a pretty electric sound on boost.
Enjoy the process...
Went for a drive, not sure if all 4 cylinders are firing so I wasn't going to flog it but it makes a pretty electric sound on boost.
Enjoy the process...
11-15-2010, 04:21 PM
#20
Swapped out #1 and 4 plugs and coil, code went away
Did a nice long drive around the countryside, purrs like a kitten and hauls like a scalded cat.
Bit of a shift point issue between 3rd and 4th were it bounces off the rev limiter and refuses to upshift until I let off the throttle, but ZZP is on it.
Did a nice long drive around the countryside, purrs like a kitten and hauls like a scalded cat.
Bit of a shift point issue between 3rd and 4th were it bounces off the rev limiter and refuses to upshift until I let off the throttle, but ZZP is on it.
11-15-2010, 08:18 PM
#21
YouTube - ZZP SC stage1 for Cobalt 2.4l
Here is a quick vid, feel free to do an armchair diagnostic. TCM? BOV? REV limiter? I have to let up off the throttle to get the next shift when it redlines. Zooomer of ZZP is gonna see this too, maybe its just my driving :P
Here is a quick vid, feel free to do an armchair diagnostic. TCM? BOV? REV limiter? I have to let up off the throttle to get the next shift when it redlines. Zooomer of ZZP is gonna see this too, maybe its just my driving :P
11-16-2010, 11:18 PM
#23
Spent the day running errands, 98% off boost. Great tune ZZP, idles low and runs quiet...until the lead foot kicks in. What a sound, the M-62 is unique to say the least. My TCM tune is fucked, but all is forgiven and it will get fixed. Fuel economy in the city was about 10-15% worse than N/A, plus the kicker of running premium gas at premium prices. This kit is going to make a great Daily Driver, I've been passionate about driving for 20 years now and the simplicity of the setup is evident.
On booost...well, aside from the shifting/rev limiter conflict it is a kick in the ass. Seems to come in 2 waves, 2-3gear sets the tone and then 3-4 pushes me back into my seat as the tach sweeps past 5k. LOVE IT. **** eating grin mandatory
The ZZP kit has made driving a Cobalt fun, something any N/A 2.4l owner can do with a bit of patience (ok, a lot of patience when it won't fire up like mine. Gremlins.) and basic hand tools. Expect to make a few trips to the hardware store as the kit leaves you short on a couple bolts, some hose clamps, which ABS wire to tap into for the IC pump (the smallest pink one, solid color), and be careful where you mount the pump as it just might conflict with fog lamps if you've got them. My front fascia has an ugly gap on the left hand side due to that. Ah well.
I'll update as my love affair with this setup grows
On booost...well, aside from the shifting/rev limiter conflict it is a kick in the ass. Seems to come in 2 waves, 2-3gear sets the tone and then 3-4 pushes me back into my seat as the tach sweeps past 5k. LOVE IT. **** eating grin mandatory
The ZZP kit has made driving a Cobalt fun, something any N/A 2.4l owner can do with a bit of patience (ok, a lot of patience when it won't fire up like mine. Gremlins.) and basic hand tools. Expect to make a few trips to the hardware store as the kit leaves you short on a couple bolts, some hose clamps, which ABS wire to tap into for the IC pump (the smallest pink one, solid color), and be careful where you mount the pump as it just might conflict with fog lamps if you've got them. My front fascia has an ugly gap on the left hand side due to that. Ah well.
I'll update as my love affair with this setup grows
11-18-2010, 08:14 PM
#25
The performance shop that is going to clear my Crank Relearn DTC has a dyno...I'm curious of course but I may forgo the rollers for now as my ass dyno doesn't lie. I'm older, so it isn't a burning priority to know exact #s...I mainly did this so passing someone wasn't a prayer followed by a roll of the dice.
Mission accomplished!
Mission accomplished!