Hahn 2,4 stage II turbo kit (without off-topic nonsens)
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From: Sherbrooke, Qc, Canada
Hahn 2,4 stage II turbo kit (without off-topic nonsens)
I regrouped all the meaningfull information about the kit in this thread because the other one was getting off topic and out of hands.
Please keep this thread clean of off-topic crap... in here, stage 1 doesn't exist. And no we don't think we should've purchased a SS/SC.
Please keep this thread clean of off-topic crap... in here, stage 1 doesn't exist. And no we don't think we should've purchased a SS/SC.
Originally Posted by EcoBoost
Under DA hood:
Under DA hood 2:
FMIC view:
Piping run, intercooler to throttle body:
trubo view from top:
undercar view:
downpipe:
We're not quite able to provide a final list at this time, as development is not yet complete. However, I can provide a preliminary one to give you a working idea of the kit contents...and this is probably 95% or better correct at this time.
* Super 20G Turbocharger assembly w/adjustable internal wastegate (easily reconfigured for higher boost levels)
* Turbo Manifold, TIG-welded
* Exhaust outlet/02 sensor housing, TIG-welded, cerametallic coated
* Downpipe with or without high-flow catalytic converter, mandrel-bent, TIG-welded
* Front mount intercooler, 24x6x4.5 (648 cubic-inch core volume), TIG-welded sheetmetal
* Air intake system: K&N filter, mandrel-bent piping, TIG-welded, powder coated
* Air charge piping: mandrel-bent, TIG-welded, powder coated
* Blow-off valve
* Fuel system modifications including larger injectors and PCM reprogramming
* Quality silicone hose couplings
* Quality non-cutting hose clamps
* Braided stainless steel and hi-temp silicone turbo oil feed and return systems
* Complete hardware kit
* All needed gaskets
* Detailed instructions
* Overall HP capability of system components: 475+ HP (when used with internally enhanced engine and attendant fuel system mods)
* Expert technical support via telephone or email every weekday from the leading Ecotec turbocharging company (more Ecotec turbosystems delivered than all others combined)
* One-year, unlimited mileage warranty on all components except manifold, which carries a five-year, unlimited mileage warranty against cracking
* Design, calibration, and manufacturing performed and/or overseen by Bill Hahn Jr, who personally boasts 30 years of turbocharging experience
I see our Stage II 2.4 system coming in at $3500-$4000. (not final)
So far, the only modification to the driveline (other than the turbosystem) is a heavy-duty clutch.
The results on our site were achieved with a Super20G running at 7-8 PSI. The car also had no catalytic converter and a big exhaust, so it's correct to say she was a big breather! Naturally, we'll also test with cat con in place.
Just a clarification...all the Solstice numbers we have achieved so far have all been on stock internals. And yes, what's being discussed here so far is a Stage II system. Rev limiter set at 6500 RPM for enhanced durability.
We're close, very close! End of October most likely.
We are also working hard on getting a set of other Cobalt products out there, and will be releasing details about these items in other threads. I'd like to keep this thread just about the 2.4.
Yes, it is our intention to also offer a version for the automatic transmission. At this point, it's not a 100% certainty, as two things must happen first:
1. We must do a prototype car that establishes viability.
2. There must be sufficient demand to justify entering production with an automatic version.
We'll begin to seek an automatic car later this year.
The transmission seems really happy so far. The 2.4's F23 Getrag transaxle is internally the same as our Ecotec Sunfire project car that my son races. That car, which has a nigh-identical driveline to a Cobalt, has been low 11's @ 125 MPH in the 1/4. We put over 90 11 and 12 second passes on a stock F23 transaxle using 15x9 and 15x10 inch slicks. Upon disassembly, all that transmission showed was some excessive wear to a differential side gear thrust washer. Chances are good that washer suffered during burnouts with the slicks...it's hard to keep both slicks rotating at exactly the same speed with an open differential.
One aspect of the Getrag transmissions used in Cobalt that is very unique (and very encouraging!) is that unlike most other transaxles in this segment, they use three gear shafts as opposed to only two. This spreads the loading among 50% more bearing and shaft area, as well as allows the individual gearsets to be as much as 50% more robust in size.
Another great attribute is the size of the differential ring gear...it's like 8.5" big!
Overall, it's a quality transaxle from a quality supplier, and appears to be well up to the task of higher power.
We are looking at the possibility of an airbox for the air filter to allow routing cooler outside air for higher powered iterations.
We've done a number of systems with similar underhood air filters, and with effective intercooling, all has been well at these power levels. Available underhood space is at a premium on these cars, so component placement becomes a dance of deciding which areas can be compromised, and which cannot. Free-flowing piping runs that are minimally intrusive to surrounding components are the biggest priority, and thus the overriding challenge.
We don't have watercooling on this particular system, but it could be readily retrofitted...the turbocharger does have accomodations for it, and we have fittings and related parts to make it rather straightforward.
You are right on about the advantages of the automatic! As technology availability continues to improve, it's ever-more viable.
Soon. Probably later this summer.
You can purchase directly from us, or from one of our dealers.
Pricing will be determined soon...we have to finish development before we can accurately cost it out.
Yes, the charge pipe from turbo to intercooler runs under the engine. The blow-off valve is located on it.
We've done a fair bit of experimentation, and the MAF functions best in the location shown
We don't have solid 1/4 mile results yet on Cobalt, but as comparison...
Our Cavalier/Sunfire systems, when operated at similar power levels as this Stage II 2.4 kit, have resulted in mid-to-high 12's.
Our Solstice 2.4 car has gone 12.77 on street radials using a stock 2.4.
Our Sunfire 2.2, at Stage V power (but same turbosystem configuration as what we have here), with slicks and piston/rod upgrades has run low 11's @ 125 MPH.
1. We'll do it either way...we can reflash your existing unit, or you can buy a new one. Most folks do the former.
2. Typically, our Staged Upgrades are rather affordable, since the basis of the higher power levels is already built into the turbosystem. So, you can start at any point, then work your way up the ladder, just adding more parts, as opposed to replacing parts you've already purchased.
Under DA hood 2:
FMIC view:
Piping run, intercooler to throttle body:
trubo view from top:
undercar view:
downpipe:
Originally Posted by Wo|F
could we have a final detailed list of everything that comes with the kit? please?
* Super 20G Turbocharger assembly w/adjustable internal wastegate (easily reconfigured for higher boost levels)
* Turbo Manifold, TIG-welded
* Exhaust outlet/02 sensor housing, TIG-welded, cerametallic coated
* Downpipe with or without high-flow catalytic converter, mandrel-bent, TIG-welded
* Front mount intercooler, 24x6x4.5 (648 cubic-inch core volume), TIG-welded sheetmetal
* Air intake system: K&N filter, mandrel-bent piping, TIG-welded, powder coated
* Air charge piping: mandrel-bent, TIG-welded, powder coated
* Blow-off valve
* Fuel system modifications including larger injectors and PCM reprogramming
* Quality silicone hose couplings
* Quality non-cutting hose clamps
* Braided stainless steel and hi-temp silicone turbo oil feed and return systems
* Complete hardware kit
* All needed gaskets
* Detailed instructions
* Overall HP capability of system components: 475+ HP (when used with internally enhanced engine and attendant fuel system mods)
* Expert technical support via telephone or email every weekday from the leading Ecotec turbocharging company (more Ecotec turbosystems delivered than all others combined)
* One-year, unlimited mileage warranty on all components except manifold, which carries a five-year, unlimited mileage warranty against cracking
* Design, calibration, and manufacturing performed and/or overseen by Bill Hahn Jr, who personally boasts 30 years of turbocharging experience
I see our Stage II 2.4 system coming in at $3500-$4000. (not final)
Originally Posted by YoAdrian
Did you upgrade any internals, clutch, anything?
Originally Posted by Brandon97Z
i believe from the site it was 240hp and 240tq. What size turbo did they use and how much psi?
Originally Posted by g5mike
Would this be stage 2 turbo? because on the soltice forums im seing them running two different ones...one at 270 and another at 320 of course with the internals done up
Originally Posted by celicacobalt
how long till release to the public?
We are also working hard on getting a set of other Cobalt products out there, and will be releasing details about these items in other threads. I'd like to keep this thread just about the 2.4.
Originally Posted by zx2assassin
is it correct that there is going to be a turbo for the 2.4 auto but released at a later date then the one your currently testing?
1. We must do a prototype car that establishes viability.
2. There must be sufficient demand to justify entering production with an automatic version.
We'll begin to seek an automatic car later this year.
Originally Posted by Kage
now for the one i think every one wants to know.... hows the tranny holding up??
one other thing, you said for the 240 whp and 241tq you didn't have a cat and was running a big exhaust (guessing the 3 in. pipe). what do you think we would get if we keep the cat and maybe use a little smaller pipe (say 2.5)?
one other thing, you said for the 240 whp and 241tq you didn't have a cat and was running a big exhaust (guessing the 3 in. pipe). what do you think we would get if we keep the cat and maybe use a little smaller pipe (say 2.5)?
One aspect of the Getrag transmissions used in Cobalt that is very unique (and very encouraging!) is that unlike most other transaxles in this segment, they use three gear shafts as opposed to only two. This spreads the loading among 50% more bearing and shaft area, as well as allows the individual gearsets to be as much as 50% more robust in size.
Another great attribute is the size of the differential ring gear...it's like 8.5" big!
Overall, it's a quality transaxle from a quality supplier, and appears to be well up to the task of higher power.
Originally Posted by Halfcent
2 questions:
1. With the intercooler to throttle body duct located in the right front fender well, is there any room left there for the inlet air filter to be run to the same location so it can recieve cooler air then the present location of under the hood?
2. I see the oil supply and return lines for the turbo in your under side picture. Does this set up use the additional water cooling as well? If not, can it?
Separately, about the auto/manual trans issue...
My goal with this car was to build a daily driver that produced the most horsepower possible in the most reliable fashion possible. I bought an auto specifically for two reasons. The first was as a daily driver, an auto is quite frankly easier. Second, most drag cars are in fact automatics. With the current abilities to tune the 4T45E trans, it can be a great drag car as well as a driver.
1. With the intercooler to throttle body duct located in the right front fender well, is there any room left there for the inlet air filter to be run to the same location so it can recieve cooler air then the present location of under the hood?
2. I see the oil supply and return lines for the turbo in your under side picture. Does this set up use the additional water cooling as well? If not, can it?
Separately, about the auto/manual trans issue...
My goal with this car was to build a daily driver that produced the most horsepower possible in the most reliable fashion possible. I bought an auto specifically for two reasons. The first was as a daily driver, an auto is quite frankly easier. Second, most drag cars are in fact automatics. With the current abilities to tune the 4T45E trans, it can be a great drag car as well as a driver.
We've done a number of systems with similar underhood air filters, and with effective intercooling, all has been well at these power levels. Available underhood space is at a premium on these cars, so component placement becomes a dance of deciding which areas can be compromised, and which cannot. Free-flowing piping runs that are minimally intrusive to surrounding components are the biggest priority, and thus the overriding challenge.
We don't have watercooling on this particular system, but it could be readily retrofitted...the turbocharger does have accomodations for it, and we have fittings and related parts to make it rather straightforward.
You are right on about the advantages of the automatic! As technology availability continues to improve, it's ever-more viable.
Originally Posted by Wo|F
3 questions: when? where? how much?
You can purchase directly from us, or from one of our dealers.
Pricing will be determined soon...we have to finish development before we can accurately cost it out.
Originally Posted by GTP
Bill....Ok, I see the intake pipe, and the post intercooler pipe to the TB.
Where does the charge pipe run from the turbo to the intercooler? Also where is the bypass valve?
Bill I assume it works ok but how come you are running the MAF on the charge pipe right before the TB? Wouldn't/couldn't you run the MAF right above the intake cone filter pre-turbo and the bypass valve post turbo?
Where does the charge pipe run from the turbo to the intercooler? Also where is the bypass valve?
Bill I assume it works ok but how come you are running the MAF on the charge pipe right before the TB? Wouldn't/couldn't you run the MAF right above the intake cone filter pre-turbo and the bypass valve post turbo?
We've done a fair bit of experimentation, and the MAF functions best in the location shown
Originally Posted by savior
what 1/4 mile times would the turbo most likely achieve?
Our Cavalier/Sunfire systems, when operated at similar power levels as this Stage II 2.4 kit, have resulted in mid-to-high 12's.
Our Solstice 2.4 car has gone 12.77 on street radials using a stock 2.4.
Our Sunfire 2.2, at Stage V power (but same turbosystem configuration as what we have here), with slicks and piston/rod upgrades has run low 11's @ 125 MPH.
Originally Posted by mike25
1. as far as the ecm goes.....will it be a 'send off and retune' job or will the kit include a brand new specialy tuned module...(i think i actually mean PCM module but its late and i cant rem. what.....)
2. how will you work upgrading between stage kits.....say we buy stg2 at 3750 and then want stage 3 set at 4500....do we pay the 4500...( hope not thats rediculous...) or is there a new lowered price just for the needed upgraded parts?
2. how will you work upgrading between stage kits.....say we buy stg2 at 3750 and then want stage 3 set at 4500....do we pay the 4500...( hope not thats rediculous...) or is there a new lowered price just for the needed upgraded parts?
2. Typically, our Staged Upgrades are rather affordable, since the basis of the higher power levels is already built into the turbosystem. So, you can start at any point, then work your way up the ladder, just adding more parts, as opposed to replacing parts you've already purchased.
Thread Starter
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Joined: 06-30-06
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From: Sherbrooke, Qc, Canada
Oh, and I have a new question. When I'm ready to purchase this kit (most likely in mid-April) will it be possible to bring you the car directly at your shop to have it installed/tuned? How long does the install take (approx.)?
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From: Chicago
Originally Posted by Wo|F
Oh, and I have a new question. When I'm ready to purchase this kit (most likely in mid-April) will it be possible to bring you the car directly at your shop to have it installed/tuned? How long does the install take (approx.)?
I am a authorized HRC retailer, and only an hour or so away from them. I would be more than willing to help you install the kit for a small fee, granted you bought the kit from me. If you don't then I charge a little more but would still be more than willing to help. I have installed the HRC Ecotec Cavalier kit 2 complete times and 50% of it 4 times....all on my own car.
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Joined: 03-17-06
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From: Moncton Newbrunswick Can.
Originally Posted by hypsy
AFAIK they don't do installs at the shop anymore. they are just too busy.
I am a authorized HRC retailer, and only an hour or so away from them. I would be more than willing to help you install the kit for a small fee, granted you bought the kit from me. If you don't then I charge a little more but would still be more than willing to help. I have installed the HRC Ecotec Cavalier kit 2 complete times and 50% of it 4 times....all on my own car.
I am a authorized HRC retailer, and only an hour or so away from them. I would be more than willing to help you install the kit for a small fee, granted you bought the kit from me. If you don't then I charge a little more but would still be more than willing to help. I have installed the HRC Ecotec Cavalier kit 2 complete times and 50% of it 4 times....all on my own car.
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Joined: 07-19-06
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From: Bluffton, SC
I have been waiting impatiently for Hahn to put something out since I baught this car. Now I find out I have to wait even longer to get an upgrade for my automatic. I was pretty hopped up when I baught this car but now I think I am just going to trade it in when the ION redline sky comes out. Less wait and 20HP than the stage kit.
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From: .
Originally Posted by imnocity4u
I have been waiting impatiently for Hahn to put something out since I baught this car. Now I find out I have to wait even longer to get an upgrade for my automatic. I was pretty hopped up when I baught this car but now I think I am just going to trade it in when the ION redline sky comes out. Less wait and 20HP than the stage kit.
ion redline sky.....? im assuming you are talking about the sky redline?
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From: Brampton, ON, CANADA
Originally Posted by 8cd03gro
ion redline sky.....? im assuming you are talking about the sky redline?
and the sky is the same as the solstice (roadster)
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From: Bluffton, SC
No. The redline Sky is a new version of the ION the cames out in 07. It has a turboed 2.0 thats pushing out 260hp. Like Ninja said though it's around 30k but if you figure how much you would have to sink into a 2.4 just to get it to 240hp.....not really worth it anymore.
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From: Chicago
Originally Posted by imnocity4u
No. The redline Sky is a new version of the ION the cames out in 07. It has a turboed 2.0 thats pushing out 260hp. Like Ninja said though it's around 30k but if you figure how much you would have to sink into a 2.4 just to get it to 240hp.....not really worth it anymore.
On the note about the new T/C motor...Chevy is SERIOUSLY considering replacing the 2.0L S/C motor with the new 2.0L DI T/C motor for the 2008 model year in the Cobalt SS. Good move IMO. It will be in the HHR SS as well.
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From: .
Originally Posted by imnocity4u
No. The redline Sky is a new version of the ION the cames out in 07. It has a turboed 2.0 thats pushing out 260hp. Like Ninja said though it's around 30k but if you figure how much you would have to sink into a 2.4 just to get it to 240hp.....not really worth it anymore.
no...the sky redline is exactly that...a SKY. it's the same thing as the solstice gxp...
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From: Wellston, Ohio
When Bill said that the only modification so far was a heavy duty clutch... how much does something like that cost... im still trying to learn about this kind of stuff.... How much would installation cost on something like this and who could do this... I live in southern ohio... sorry if this is off topic...
Originally Posted by evan24
When Bill said that the only modification so far was a heavy duty clutch... how much does something like that cost... im still trying to learn about this kind of stuff.... How much would installation cost on something like this and who could do this... I live in southern ohio... sorry if this is off topic...
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From: Chicago
A clutch like the one they use is about 400-600 depending on brand.
If you've never done a clutch change either get some help or pay someone to do it. It's not that it's hard to do but its a lot of very specific stuff that has to be done exactly right.
If you've never done a clutch change either get some help or pay someone to do it. It's not that it's hard to do but its a lot of very specific stuff that has to be done exactly right.
