swapping 4t45e tranny with 4t65 tranny
07-10-2006, 03:54 PM
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swapping 4t45e tranny with 4t65 tranny
What do yall think about it? With hahns pushing the 2.4 up to 342hp or somewhere around there and maybe even more what do yall think about swapping the 4t45e tranny with the 4t65 tranny thats in the ECOTEC build book. Cuz I know our automatics probably would only take up to 28whp and I'm planning on getting my 2.4 up to 340-360whp like hahns getting right now. Yes I know it will cost a nice penny or two lol but I have hook ups with GM(friend works in parts dept. and get me discounts
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07-10-2006, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by UnstableSS
Hahn is doing 342 hp on stock internals and feel they will hold up. I think the SS/SC is almost obsolete.
for how long will the internals hold up at 342hp not to metion your axles and tranny. I still belive the ss s/c can be made faster for less coin
07-10-2006, 04:10 PM
#5
Originally Posted by budman128
for how long will the internals hold up at 342hp not to metion your axles and tranny. I still belive the ss s/c can be made faster for less coin
07-10-2006, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by UnstableSS
Hahn is doing 342 hp on stock internals and feel they will hold up. I think the SS/SC is almost obsolete.
07-10-2006, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by budman128
for how long will the internals hold up at 342hp not to metion your axles and tranny. I still belive the ss s/c can be made faster for less coin
07-10-2006, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by budman128
I still belive the ss s/c can be made faster for less coin
HOWEVER, if you factor in the cost of the car with the performance mods you really aren't spending any less than a 2.2 or 2.4 guy trying to make their car perform.
07-10-2006, 05:17 PM
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however for the money it costs to get up to a stage 2 ss s/c power you might have well just bought one from the dealership IMO. Also if we are snappin axles you guys will as well not to mention the factory autos will explode. That said Modding anything is fun so start with the best platform you can afford and start spending
07-10-2006, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by budman128
however for the money it costs to get up to a stage 2 ss s/c power you might have well just bought one from the dealership IMO. Also if we are snappin axles you guys will as well not to mention the factory autos will explode. That said Modding anything is fun so start with the best platform you can afford and start spending
Thats why I put up the idea of swapping it out with the 4t65 transmission and building it to hold up to 600hp.
What I'd like to know is if it would be a direct swap, or if things would have to be custom fabricated to make it fit. Anyone know?
07-10-2006, 06:01 PM
#13
Originally Posted by budman128
however for the money it costs to get up to a stage 2 ss s/c power you might have well just bought one from the dealership IMO. Also if we are snappin axles you guys will as well not to mention the factory autos will explode. That said Modding anything is fun so start with the best platform you can afford and start spending
you my friend, have answered you're own question... sure, it may be better to start with a ss/sc, but not everyone can afford one from the start... so we'll mod our 2.2's...
07-10-2006, 06:04 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by D4u2s0t
you my friend, have answered you're own question... sure, it may be better to start with a ss/sc, but not everyone can afford one from the start... so we'll mod our 2.2's...
07-10-2006, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Pyros777
What I'd like to know is if it would be a direct swap, or if things would have to be custom fabricated to make it fit. Anyone know?
07-10-2006, 06:14 PM
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i agree with what D4 said. However, i don't understand it when someone buys a lesser car and has PLANS to go above and beyond. Of course, maybe they want to run a turbo or bigger SC instead of the M62.
07-10-2006, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 05BlackCobaltSS
i agree with what D4 said. However, i don't understand it when someone buys a lesser car and has PLANS to go above and beyond. Of course, maybe they want to run a turbo or bigger SC instead of the M62.
Hows the 2.4 a lesser car besides that it doesn't have a supercharger on it?
07-10-2006, 06:27 PM
#18
I'm old school
Please remain on topic. The question is whether a trans swap is feasible or possible. Not if the SS/SC is a better car.
Putting a 4t65 trans into the Cobalt is a HUGE ordeal. The build does in fact show the use of completely new solid mounts for the powertrain. These mounts move the engine forward in the engine bay. Relocating a number of small items in the engine becomes necessary.
At 350 horse power, you will do much better with a built 4t45e. This is what I have already done in anticipation of that kind of power. I retain my stock feel, I can tune it using HPTuners (yes, I can tune the trans) and I only spent half as much as you are thinking about doing.
Putting a 4t65 trans into the Cobalt is a HUGE ordeal. The build does in fact show the use of completely new solid mounts for the powertrain. These mounts move the engine forward in the engine bay. Relocating a number of small items in the engine becomes necessary.
At 350 horse power, you will do much better with a built 4t45e. This is what I have already done in anticipation of that kind of power. I retain my stock feel, I can tune it using HPTuners (yes, I can tune the trans) and I only spent half as much as you are thinking about doing.
07-10-2006, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 05YELLOWSS
Someone get a hold of the cobalt phase 5 team, and get their exact recipe for their 500hp...it's in the build book...all of it...so order the parts and go...
07-10-2006, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CTCOBALTSSS
Exactly. Not to rain on anyones parade but why are people spending all this money on non SCs when they could have just bought an SS/SC? I just don't get it.
07-10-2006, 07:03 PM
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Exactly. Not to rain on anyones parade but why are people spending all this money on non SCs when they could have just bought an SS/SC? I just don't get it.
excatly...
07-10-2006, 09:15 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by Halfcent
Please remain on topic. The question is whether a trans swap is feasible or possible. Not if the SS/SC is a better car.
Putting a 4t65 trans into the Cobalt is a HUGE ordeal. The build does in fact show the use of completely new solid mounts for the powertrain. These mounts move the engine forward in the engine bay. Relocating a number of small items in the engine becomes necessary.
At 350 horse power, you will do much better with a built 4t45e. This is what I have already done in anticipation of that kind of power. I retain my stock feel, I can tune it using HPTuners (yes, I can tune the trans) and I only spent half as much as you are thinking about doing.
Putting a 4t65 trans into the Cobalt is a HUGE ordeal. The build does in fact show the use of completely new solid mounts for the powertrain. These mounts move the engine forward in the engine bay. Relocating a number of small items in the engine becomes necessary.
At 350 horse power, you will do much better with a built 4t45e. This is what I have already done in anticipation of that kind of power. I retain my stock feel, I can tune it using HPTuners (yes, I can tune the trans) and I only spent half as much as you are thinking about doing.
Now that HP Tuners will allow you to tune the shift feel and shift points, TCC lockup and TQ managment, there's no reason not to attempt to get as much out of the 4T45E as you can. What many people dont realize is the 4T40E was constantly improved from about 1997 on allowing it to be used with more and more HP when it came to be known as the 4T45E.Up until this year it was actually used very reliably in the Saturn L-series behind the DOHC V6 L81 pushing 210HP and 270 NM !!
Hydramatic is KNOWN for their conservative TQ ratings on their transaxles.
The Phase 5 4T65E is for a full-out race car only. There's no EASY way to just swap it in without all sorts of fitment issues to be solved, including axle issues (65E doesnt use an intermediate shaft or equal length 1/2 shafts)Sure, if money's no object... go right ahead, but certainly the "built" 65E is overkill for a street car.
Plus the Cobalt's Transmission Control Module will not easily be adapt to the 65E even WITH HPT support. This is because the up/downshift solenoid logic is totally different (4T65E= 11, 01, 00, 10 and the 4T45E is 10, 00,01,11) and the Line pressure control solenoid uses a totally different base frequency.
There ARE plenty of aftermarket companies (Raybestos/Blueplate for one) that ALREADY offer improved clutch pistons, seals and plates (for every clutch) and HD bands and sprags for the 45E. My advice would be to add additional cooling/fluid volume, new fluid and maybe a fresh filter and see what lets go behind a turbo 2.4 (if anything at all) AND find someone that is familiar using HPT on the Autos (usually the V8 tuners) to help set her up for maximum holding power.
THEN IF you run into failures- hook up with a decent local performance transmission shop to identify the root failure and start sourcing or creating improved parts. This is how it's been done forever.I mean the input housing and shaft could certainly be hardend locally for a couple hundered $$ but why not wait to see if that's what fails. If a clutch smokes you look for ways to improve it's application path and use better plate materials (already available thru companies like Raybestos) OR look to add additional fibre plates into the clutch by having some custom apply plate machining done (done it myself not that expensive)
The 7/8" CHAIN might just be a "weak link" (no pun intended)- but THERE ARE ways to adapt other beefier parts (shortened 65E?) into just about any automatic trans, and I'd be surprised if there wasnt a larger single cog chain and sprockets already available for the 45E. Same thing goes for a higher stall and brazed TQ converter.
So for any of you that are SERIOUS about just going for it to boost up the 2.4 A4 , just know you can count on whatever techncial support you require from this guy over here.
WopOnTour
PS>Here's an aftermarket parts book for Raybestos to get you started. Later I'll post up the THM Techncians guide for the 4T45E in PDF. (If only someone could RAISE my damn upload limit )
Here's some other online resources that might come in handy
http://www.transbuilder.com/
http://www.transtec.com/trans_new_products.htm
http://www.transgo.com/transgocatalog0206.pdf
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/cindex.asp
http://www.morsetec.com/Hy-vo.pdf
http://www.atraonline.com/events/sem...minar_info.asp
http://www.atraonline.com/source/Orders/index.cfm
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/highperflist.htm
http://www.altousa.com/catalogs.htm
http://www.transtec.com/npa_trans/Trans-NPA0208.pdf
http://www.acerecon.com/catalog/auto...eries.asp?t=13
http://www.spxfiltran.com/products/Lookup/Default.asp
Last edited by WopOnTour; 07-10-2006 at 11:29 PM.