tt?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 04-19-07
Posts: 911
Likes: 0
From: Houma, LA
tt?
I am kinda a noob when it comes to engines and i have the ss/sc but i am thinking of trading it in for a 2.4 only if i can put a TT in it... my question is will a TT fit in the 2.4
Not a Sebring
Joined: 02-22-07
Posts: 12,863
Likes: 2
From: Northern VA
WTF!?!? Pleeeease tell me you don't mean a twin-turbo......LOL. Its a 4-cyl.......not a 6, 8, 10, or 12cyl!!!! Our engines don't create near enough backpressure to run a TT setup. Remember, turbos spool via your engines backpressure, which is why big engines have big turbos, or twin turbos sometimes, and little engine have little turbos. And the little 4-cyls that do run big turbos have to deal with major turbo lag, but they are drag race cars so they want their power to kick from the middle of their powerband on so they can finish strong. I've only seen one TT 4-cyl to date (asides from Forced Air Technologies TT-Supercharged.......yes you read that right.......STI) and it was F2's Focus sedan, but I think that was more of a concept than an actual product they'd plan on releasing to the public. It was more of a "yeah look what we can do" kinda thing, ya know?
If you want turbo, go with Hahn's SINGLE turbo kit.......thats MORE than enough! lol
If you want turbo, go with Hahn's SINGLE turbo kit.......thats MORE than enough! lol
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 04-19-07
Posts: 911
Likes: 0
From: Houma, LA
WTF!?!? Pleeeease tell me you don't mean a twin-turbo......LOL. Its a 4-cyl.......not a 6, 8, 10, or 12cyl!!!! Our engines don't create near enough backpressure to run a TT setup. Remember, turbos spool via your engines backpressure, which is why big engines have big turbos, or twin turbos sometimes, and little engine have little turbos. And the little 4-cyls that do run big turbos have to deal with major turbo lag, but they are drag race cars so they want their power to kick from the middle of their powerband on so they can finish strong. I've only seen one TT 4-cyl to date (asides from Forced Air Technologies TT-Supercharged.......yes you read that right.......STI) and it was F2's Focus sedan, but I think that was more of a concept than an actual product they'd plan on releasing to the public. It was more of a "yeah look what we can do" kinda thing, ya know?
If you want turbo, go with Hahn's SINGLE turbo kit.......thats MORE than enough! lol
If you want turbo, go with Hahn's SINGLE turbo kit.......thats MORE than enough! lol
Not a Sebring
Joined: 02-22-07
Posts: 12,863
Likes: 2
From: Northern VA
Keep your 2.0, get a smaller pulley, some bigger injectors, a nice tune, and a full exhaust + a CAI and you'll be ***** out fast!
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 04-19-07
Posts: 911
Likes: 0
From: Houma, LA
If you already have the SS/SC, then why would you want the 2.4? Turboing the 2.4 is only gonna make it marginally faster than the 2.0. I mean, I prefer the 2.4 myself, but if you already have the 2.0 then just keep that and do work to that, as you'll lose money trading it in and lose even more money on the Hahn turbo kit that will only make you slightly faster than your 2.0 is right now.
Keep your 2.0, get a smaller pulley, some bigger injectors, a nice tune, and a full exhaust + a CAI and you'll be ***** out fast!
Keep your 2.0, get a smaller pulley, some bigger injectors, a nice tune, and a full exhaust + a CAI and you'll be ***** out fast!
Senior Member
Joined: 05-03-06
Posts: 3,283
Likes: 1
From: Shaw AFB, Sumter, SC.
Yeah man if you go turbo stick with the 2.0. Its internals are built for boost obviously. You can boost a lot more on it rather than a 2.4. You would have to upgrade the internals and cost you even more money.
Senior Member
Joined: 01-05-06
Posts: 10,877
Likes: 2
From: East Brunswick, NJ
WTF!?!? Pleeeease tell me you don't mean a twin-turbo......LOL. Its a 4-cyl.......not a 6, 8, 10, or 12cyl!!!! Our engines don't create near enough backpressure to run a TT setup. Remember, turbos spool via your engines backpressure, which is why big engines have big turbos, or twin turbos sometimes, and little engine have little turbos. And the little 4-cyls that do run big turbos have to deal with major turbo lag, but they are drag race cars so they want their power to kick from the middle of their powerband on so they can finish strong. I've only seen one TT 4-cyl to date (asides from Forced Air Technologies TT-Supercharged.......yes you read that right.......STI) and it was F2's Focus sedan, but I think that was more of a concept than an actual product they'd plan on releasing to the public. It was more of a "yeah look what we can do" kinda thing, ya know?
If you want turbo, go with Hahn's SINGLE turbo kit.......thats MORE than enough! lol
If you want turbo, go with Hahn's SINGLE turbo kit.......thats MORE than enough! lol
A turbocharger runs off of exhaust gasses or exhaut energy. Backpressure is a negative effect that actually hurts a turbocharger application post-turbo. Inside the manifold is a huge build up of high pressure and the energy heads toward the turbine.
Here is the thing
The only reason to use twin turbochargers is if a single turbocharger is not capable of supporting enough airflow without going pass it's efficiency range, so it needs another turbocharger to achieve more airflow to achieve the whatever power you're trying to make.
Throughout the years, there are lots of effective single unit turbochargers capable of supporting rediculous amounts of air. Even GMs ECOTEC race cars are single turbocharged and those are upwards of 900-1200 HP.
The negative thing is that you have to divide your engine with exhaust pulses, so instead of having a single operational 4 cylinder engine, you're making it a 2 seperate 2 cylinder operational motor and depending on the firing cycle, your exhaust pulses could be totally seperate from each other (this goes into the account on the type of turbo manifold you're having created).
Just because you have a bigger engine doesn't mean you NEED two turbochargers and deviding of the amount of cylinders and exhaust pulses works in the same situation as well.
Another thing people forget is that 2 turbochargers means you have 2x items that need to be placed, so that means:
2 manifolds
2 charge pipings setups
2 exhaust system setups
Finding a way and place to bring the 2 sets of charge pipings together and exhaust systems together (or you could keep them seperate for dual exhaust)
2 sets of oil return and feed lines
The list goes on.
If you already have the SS/SC, then why would you want the 2.4? Turboing the 2.4 is only gonna make it marginally faster than the 2.0. I mean, I prefer the 2.4 myself, but if you already have the 2.0 then just keep that and do work to that, as you'll lose money trading it in and lose even more money on the Hahn turbo kit that will only make you slightly faster than your 2.0 is right now.
Keep your 2.0, get a smaller pulley, some bigger injectors, a nice tune, and a full exhaust + a CAI and you'll be ***** out fast!
Keep your 2.0, get a smaller pulley, some bigger injectors, a nice tune, and a full exhaust + a CAI and you'll be ***** out fast!
From my misconceptions sticky:
Originally Posted by NJHK
4. You shouldn't or can't boost a high compression (static) engine
This isn't true and there is nothing wrong with doing so if you of course know what you are doing from the beginning.
The reason people say this is because naturally, higher compressioned pistons (taller), experience higher combustion chamber temperatures than lower compressioned pistons (shorter). If you were to "boost" a naturally aspirated engine that is (for example sake) 10.5:1 compression, nothing different will occur than if you had 8.5:1 compression pistons.
The pros of boosting a higher compressioned engine is that less air is required from your compressor to yield X HP/TQ than if you had a lower compressioned engine. Why? High compressioned engines compress the air/fuel mixture tighter which also allows for a better air/fuel mixture burn which would yield a stronger ignition on the top of the piston, which creates force to turn the crankshaft and create more power.
With less boost pressure required, it is also more likely that you will be staying in the efficiency range of your compressor, which means a less likely of you creating excess heat and raising your IATs (Intake Air Temperature).
The con: Excessively High Combustion Chamber Temperatures
Yes, that is bad but it's all about countermeasuring it and doing things to a degree. There are many of ways to counteract excess heat:
1. Running a richer fuel mixture
2. "Colder" spark plugs
3. Retarding ignition timing
4. Running Higher Octane
5. Running Meth/Water Injection
6. Better (more efficient) Intercooling
These are the more general ways of doing so.
#4 is usually a big concern because of course, not everyone has access to Octane Fuel higher than 93 Rating but to also run into another misconception that you will NEED higher octane fuel...that's also incorrect because the other 5 options I listed can help to achieve the same goal.
This isn't true and there is nothing wrong with doing so if you of course know what you are doing from the beginning.
The reason people say this is because naturally, higher compressioned pistons (taller), experience higher combustion chamber temperatures than lower compressioned pistons (shorter). If you were to "boost" a naturally aspirated engine that is (for example sake) 10.5:1 compression, nothing different will occur than if you had 8.5:1 compression pistons.
The pros of boosting a higher compressioned engine is that less air is required from your compressor to yield X HP/TQ than if you had a lower compressioned engine. Why? High compressioned engines compress the air/fuel mixture tighter which also allows for a better air/fuel mixture burn which would yield a stronger ignition on the top of the piston, which creates force to turn the crankshaft and create more power.
With less boost pressure required, it is also more likely that you will be staying in the efficiency range of your compressor, which means a less likely of you creating excess heat and raising your IATs (Intake Air Temperature).
The con: Excessively High Combustion Chamber Temperatures
Yes, that is bad but it's all about countermeasuring it and doing things to a degree. There are many of ways to counteract excess heat:
1. Running a richer fuel mixture
2. "Colder" spark plugs
3. Retarding ignition timing
4. Running Higher Octane
5. Running Meth/Water Injection
6. Better (more efficient) Intercooling
These are the more general ways of doing so.
#4 is usually a big concern because of course, not everyone has access to Octane Fuel higher than 93 Rating but to also run into another misconception that you will NEED higher octane fuel...that's also incorrect because the other 5 options I listed can help to achieve the same goal.
Last edited by NJHK; Sep 1, 2007 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Not a Sebring
Joined: 02-22-07
Posts: 12,863
Likes: 2
From: Northern VA
I'm sorry but that is incorrect.
A turbocharger runs off of exhaust gasses or exhaut energy. Backpressure is a negative effect that actually hurts a turbocharger application post-turbo. Inside the manifold is a huge build up of high pressure and the energy heads toward the turbine.
Here is the thing
The only reason to use twin turbochargers is if a single turbocharger is not capable of supporting enough airflow without going pass it's efficiency range, so it needs another turbocharger to achieve more airflow to achieve the whatever power you're trying to make.
Throughout the years, there are lots of effective single unit turbochargers capable of supporting rediculous amounts of air. Even GMs ECOTEC race cars are single turbocharged and those are upwards of 900-1200 HP.
The negative thing is that you have to divide your engine with exhaust pulses, so instead of having a single operational 4 cylinder engine, you're making it a 2 seperate 2 cylinder operational motor and depending on the firing cycle, your exhaust pulses could be totally seperate from each other (this goes into the account on the type of turbo manifold you're having created).
Just because you have a bigger engine doesn't mean you NEED two turbochargers and deviding of the amount of cylinders and exhaust pulses works in the same situation as well.
Another thing people forget is that 2 turbochargers means you have 2x items that need to be placed, so that means:
2 manifolds
2 charge pipings setups
2 exhaust system setups
Finding a way and place to bring the 2 sets of charge pipings together and exhaust systems together (or you could keep them seperate for dual exhaust)
2 sets of oil return and feed lines
The list goes on.
Ummm how so?
I'm sorry but that's not true and there is no such thing as a motor being "built for boost". If you are saying that cause it's a higher static compression'd motor...
From my misconceptions sticky:
A turbocharger runs off of exhaust gasses or exhaut energy. Backpressure is a negative effect that actually hurts a turbocharger application post-turbo. Inside the manifold is a huge build up of high pressure and the energy heads toward the turbine.
Here is the thing
The only reason to use twin turbochargers is if a single turbocharger is not capable of supporting enough airflow without going pass it's efficiency range, so it needs another turbocharger to achieve more airflow to achieve the whatever power you're trying to make.
Throughout the years, there are lots of effective single unit turbochargers capable of supporting rediculous amounts of air. Even GMs ECOTEC race cars are single turbocharged and those are upwards of 900-1200 HP.
The negative thing is that you have to divide your engine with exhaust pulses, so instead of having a single operational 4 cylinder engine, you're making it a 2 seperate 2 cylinder operational motor and depending on the firing cycle, your exhaust pulses could be totally seperate from each other (this goes into the account on the type of turbo manifold you're having created).
Just because you have a bigger engine doesn't mean you NEED two turbochargers and deviding of the amount of cylinders and exhaust pulses works in the same situation as well.
Another thing people forget is that 2 turbochargers means you have 2x items that need to be placed, so that means:
2 manifolds
2 charge pipings setups
2 exhaust system setups
Finding a way and place to bring the 2 sets of charge pipings together and exhaust systems together (or you could keep them seperate for dual exhaust)
2 sets of oil return and feed lines
The list goes on.
Ummm how so?
I'm sorry but that's not true and there is no such thing as a motor being "built for boost". If you are saying that cause it's a higher static compression'd motor...
From my misconceptions sticky:
And turbo the 2.4 with Hahn Racecrafts turbo, which is what I reccomended to him and was essentially talking about, only makes the 2.4 marginally faster than a stock 2.0. I didn't say anything about building the motor and upping the boost. I was just talking about if he were to buy the turbo kit by itself. Did I mention porting the head, pistons, rods, a new valvetrain, cams, etc etc? No, I just said turboing it. Sure, if he builds the hell out of the motor and cranking up the boost, then yeah, the 2.4 will be faster. But he can do the same to a 2.0 for less money really, as he already owns the 2.0 and has endless possibilites on his plate at the moment.
Senior Member
Joined: 01-05-06
Posts: 10,877
Likes: 2
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Oh w/e, so we're all wrong......Mr. Particular, lol. You got the point I was trying to portray about how a 4-cyl isn't properly setup to run a TT configuration.
And turbo the 2.4 with Hahn Racecrafts turbo, which is what I reccomended to him and was essentially talking about, only makes the 2.4 marginally faster than a stock 2.0. I didn't say anything about building the motor and upping the boost. I was just talking about if he were to buy the turbo kit by itself. Did I mention porting the head, pistons, rods, a new valvetrain, cams, etc etc? No, I just said turboing it. Sure, if he builds the hell out of the motor and cranking up the boost, then yeah, the 2.4 will be faster. But he can do the same to a 2.0 for less money really, as he already owns the 2.0 and has endless possibilites on his plate at the moment.
And turbo the 2.4 with Hahn Racecrafts turbo, which is what I reccomended to him and was essentially talking about, only makes the 2.4 marginally faster than a stock 2.0. I didn't say anything about building the motor and upping the boost. I was just talking about if he were to buy the turbo kit by itself. Did I mention porting the head, pistons, rods, a new valvetrain, cams, etc etc? No, I just said turboing it. Sure, if he builds the hell out of the motor and cranking up the boost, then yeah, the 2.4 will be faster. But he can do the same to a 2.0 for less money really, as he already owns the 2.0 and has endless possibilites on his plate at the moment.
I understand what you meant now about the marginal amounts of power comment.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 04-19-07
Posts: 911
Likes: 0
From: Houma, LA
Senior Member
Joined: 10-26-06
Posts: 704
Likes: 1
From: Louisville Kentucky
quick question why cant you make a 4-banger tt. all you need is 2 custom manifolds 2in1 and 2 real small bobcat turbos. they are the size of your fist and can make 15psi. those would be awesome because how fast they spool and the bobcat is a 3 cylinder diesel
Senior Member
Joined: 05-08-07
Posts: 2,039
Likes: 0
From: Lakeland, Florida
I'm sorry but that is incorrect.
A turbocharger runs off of exhaust gasses or exhaut energy. Backpressure is a negative effect that actually hurts a turbocharger application post-turbo. Inside the manifold is a huge build up of high pressure and the energy heads toward the turbine.
Here is the thing
The only reason to use twin turbochargers is if a single turbocharger is not capable of supporting enough airflow without going pass it's efficiency range, so it needs another turbocharger to achieve more airflow to achieve the whatever power you're trying to make.
Throughout the years, there are lots of effective single unit turbochargers capable of supporting rediculous amounts of air. Even GMs ECOTEC race cars are single turbocharged and those are upwards of 900-1200 HP.
The negative thing is that you have to divide your engine with exhaust pulses, so instead of having a single operational 4 cylinder engine, you're making it a 2 seperate 2 cylinder operational motor and depending on the firing cycle, your exhaust pulses could be totally seperate from each other (this goes into the account on the type of turbo manifold you're having created).
Just because you have a bigger engine doesn't mean you NEED two turbochargers and deviding of the amount of cylinders and exhaust pulses works in the same situation as well.
Another thing people forget is that 2 turbochargers means you have 2x items that need to be placed, so that means:
2 manifolds
2 charge pipings setups
2 exhaust system setups
Finding a way and place to bring the 2 sets of charge pipings together and exhaust systems together (or you could keep them seperate for dual exhaust)
2 sets of oil return and feed lines
The list goes on.
Ummm how so?
I'm sorry but that's not true and there is no such thing as a motor being "built for boost". If you are saying that cause it's a higher static compression'd motor...
From my misconceptions sticky:
A turbocharger runs off of exhaust gasses or exhaut energy. Backpressure is a negative effect that actually hurts a turbocharger application post-turbo. Inside the manifold is a huge build up of high pressure and the energy heads toward the turbine.
Here is the thing
The only reason to use twin turbochargers is if a single turbocharger is not capable of supporting enough airflow without going pass it's efficiency range, so it needs another turbocharger to achieve more airflow to achieve the whatever power you're trying to make.
Throughout the years, there are lots of effective single unit turbochargers capable of supporting rediculous amounts of air. Even GMs ECOTEC race cars are single turbocharged and those are upwards of 900-1200 HP.
The negative thing is that you have to divide your engine with exhaust pulses, so instead of having a single operational 4 cylinder engine, you're making it a 2 seperate 2 cylinder operational motor and depending on the firing cycle, your exhaust pulses could be totally seperate from each other (this goes into the account on the type of turbo manifold you're having created).
Just because you have a bigger engine doesn't mean you NEED two turbochargers and deviding of the amount of cylinders and exhaust pulses works in the same situation as well.
Another thing people forget is that 2 turbochargers means you have 2x items that need to be placed, so that means:
2 manifolds
2 charge pipings setups
2 exhaust system setups
Finding a way and place to bring the 2 sets of charge pipings together and exhaust systems together (or you could keep them seperate for dual exhaust)
2 sets of oil return and feed lines
The list goes on.
Ummm how so?
I'm sorry but that's not true and there is no such thing as a motor being "built for boost". If you are saying that cause it's a higher static compression'd motor...
From my misconceptions sticky:
Senior Member
Joined: 01-05-06
Posts: 10,877
Likes: 2
From: East Brunswick, NJ
There are turbochargers out there that respond extremely well and can support more power than you would logically use or need.
And using 2 turbochargers that are extremely small will equate into a mediocre sized single turbocharger. It's all about air flow and heat being created between the two. It's 2x everything.
I honeslty wouldn't even compare a diesel motor to a fuel injected gasoline engine.
No one is saying that you can't have a TT setup on a 4 cylinder but it's the logic behind it of why do you need 2 turbochargers? I would ask the same question for anyone with a V6, I-6 or V8 too.
That made me giggle.
Last edited by NJHK; Sep 1, 2007 at 11:25 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
LSX RWD S/C conversion
iTrader: (2)
Joined: 03-25-05
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 277
From: Maple Ridge, BC, Canada
Okay so lets really screw you all up.
Why can't you make a sequential twin turbo setup, allowing for street ability and drag racing, simply by changing the tune and boost?
Why can't you make a sequential twin turbo setup, allowing for street ability and drag racing, simply by changing the tune and boost?
Not a Sebring
Joined: 02-22-07
Posts: 12,863
Likes: 2
From: Northern VA
but why go through the headache of making a TT kit for our cars to begin with when theres already nice single turbo kit offerings by Hahn and Alpine, and the M62 supercharger kit from Rebel? Twin-turbo kits arent gonna offer any more power, b/c instead of one larger turbo, your just gonna be using two smaller turbos. Plus, theres a reason why all the TT Supra and 3rd gen RX-7 owners switch out there smaller twin-turbo setups for a larger single turbo setup.
mmm.....3rd gen RX7s.........someday i'll own one. I had an '88 RX-7 convertible previously.........im a rotary fan at heart.
mmm.....3rd gen RX7s.........someday i'll own one. I had an '88 RX-7 convertible previously.........im a rotary fan at heart.
