Who has actually done a 2.2 Darton sleeve install on a 2.0L
10-06-2009, 04:48 PM
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Who has actually done a 2.2 Darton sleeve install on a 2.0L
And had success?
I only know of one and it failed miserably... (whether it was installed wrong or what we'll never know)
When i called darton they said that there was a .005 difference in coolant passages depth. (dont know if it was more to it than that or if they gave me the quick explanation)
then i find on the ecotec forum like three different guys running darton 2.2 sleeve kit in a 2.0 lsj... with no issues uncovered as of yet.
im waiting for darton to reply with the answers to these exact questions so i figured id start a thread for all us guys who have pushed the limits of the stock sleeves. so if i dont get any answers i will provide them soon.
the 4-5 wk wait is killing me, but i do understand its better to wait then to guess. so thats where were at.
plus there's not much good **** to talk about lately in the old 2.0 section...
I only know of one and it failed miserably... (whether it was installed wrong or what we'll never know)
When i called darton they said that there was a .005 difference in coolant passages depth. (dont know if it was more to it than that or if they gave me the quick explanation)
then i find on the ecotec forum like three different guys running darton 2.2 sleeve kit in a 2.0 lsj... with no issues uncovered as of yet.
im waiting for darton to reply with the answers to these exact questions so i figured id start a thread for all us guys who have pushed the limits of the stock sleeves. so if i dont get any answers i will provide them soon.
the 4-5 wk wait is killing me, but i do understand its better to wait then to guess. so thats where were at.
plus there's not much good **** to talk about lately in the old 2.0 section...
10-06-2009, 04:50 PM
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Theres not.. its alot of bickering and stupid questions...
Area has tried to post up some cool stuff but, no one bothers with it... they dont care to look into what hes writing... they just want the "how-to for the cheapest"..
Area has tried to post up some cool stuff but, no one bothers with it... they dont care to look into what hes writing... they just want the "how-to for the cheapest"..
10-06-2009, 05:19 PM
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i find the ecotec forum has lots of info if you dont mind sifting through the old quadratec and 2.2 guys.
so i heard back from darton already... here's a direct quote from my email...
Chris,
People have put the 2.2L sleeves in the 2.0L block but we don't recommend it. The register depth is longer in the 2.0L block so the sleeves are short if they fit in the 2.2L blocks. In order for them to work you would need to deck a lot off the block. To guarantee the block is sleeved correct I would wait for the right sleeves. This will give you a lifetime warranty on the sleeves and 1 year on the installation. When you put a 2.2L sleeve in the 2.0L block the sleeves are not covered because they were not made for that block.
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Thanx,
John
Darton International, Inc.
John Catapang
National Sales Manager
sales@DARTON-international.com
2380 Camino Vida Roble Bldg. K
Carlsbad, CA. 92011
Toll free : 800-713-2786
Local : 760-603-9895
fax: 760-603-9629
www.dartonsleeves.com
Always have my latest info
Want a signature like this?
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Carson [mailto:lovemy12seccobalt@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 1:38 PM
To: John Catapang
Subject: RE: Ecotec 2.0 LSJ Darton Sleeves
John,
Will the 2.2 sleeves work with different machining process then the manual states? I know when i called i was told there was a difference of fifty thousands. Can this be machined in? Or do i have to wait for the 2.0 sleeves? Im ready to get this going asap, but im looking for your advice to make sure its done properly. Over on the ecotec forum there's a couple guys running the 2.2 darton sleeves in a 2.0 already with no issues they say.
10-06-2009, 05:34 PM
#4
As previously stated we have the first sets of sleeves coming to us so they will always be instock. The 2.2 ecotec sleeves were wrong for the application, so with the help of a customers block we are getting the correct ones made. Our wait time is under 4-5 weeks.
10-06-2009, 05:46 PM
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then i run into the whole shipping thing... i live 100mi from carlsbad i was gonna bring em my block for install, now im confused cause i didnt wanna have to pay shipping twice?
but what ever gets em to me the quickest. it just doesn't make sense, they told me if i put down payment i was guaranteed a set... WTF this sucks who's gonna get em first man???
how could you possibly have them sooner? they make em? i need you to straighten this out for me, please.
if the case is that they made a small amount of production for your co. then i understand why youll have them first and i will buy from you, just let me know cause im confused now...
10-06-2009, 06:00 PM
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re pming you lol, i sent it right after we talked in the first one, but you know css.net lately, and all the error messages. hence why i was so
i was like wtf he never replied back???
10-06-2009, 08:35 PM
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Doesn't Bates engineering make sleves for the 2.0? I know they aren't a vendor onhere but they did a lot of work with the phase 5 cobalts and I believe they have a bunch of motor componenets for the LSJ.
10-06-2009, 09:05 PM
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Thank you maxim
just talked to Ray Bates from Bates engineering.
1100.00 includes install and all machine work (he custom build the specs to your performance level)
he has them in stock turn around time is 2 weeks
wow so the price went down the product strength and availability went up... never heard of that before.
so yeah, im taking the block there asap. muhahahah
just talked to Ray Bates from Bates engineering.
1100.00 includes install and all machine work (he custom build the specs to your performance level)
he has them in stock turn around time is 2 weeks
wow so the price went down the product strength and availability went up... never heard of that before.
so yeah, im taking the block there asap. muhahahah
Last edited by hungryhip-ccp; 10-10-2009 at 11:04 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
10-06-2009, 09:09 PM
#13
Thank you maxim
just talked to Ray Bates from Bates engineering.
1100.00 includes install and all machine work (he custom build the specs to your performance level)
he has them in stock turn around time is 2 weeks
he said they have been tested to 1500hp at which time the block failed terribly, he gave me numerous reasons that they are better than darton. wont go into to much i suggest calling him yourself.
wow so the price went down the product strength and availability went up... never heard of that before.
he said he's dying to do a couple, no ones been breaking anything once it comes to him so his business in the ecotec has been winding down. (bad for him, good for us lol)
so yeah, im taking the block there asap.
just talked to Ray Bates from Bates engineering.
1100.00 includes install and all machine work (he custom build the specs to your performance level)
he has them in stock turn around time is 2 weeks
he said they have been tested to 1500hp at which time the block failed terribly, he gave me numerous reasons that they are better than darton. wont go into to much i suggest calling him yourself.
wow so the price went down the product strength and availability went up... never heard of that before.
he said he's dying to do a couple, no ones been breaking anything once it comes to him so his business in the ecotec has been winding down. (bad for him, good for us lol)
so yeah, im taking the block there asap.
Anyone else that was looking for the Darton should seriously consider the Bates setup.
Ray knows his stuff, my 2.2L eco cav is filled with Mr Ray Bates goodies.
When I sleeved my cav block it was with the Darton kit, which has not had any issues, but if I was to do it over again, I would go with Bates.
We carry Darton, but now that I know Bates offers sleeves for the 2.0L I would just pass them onto Bates.
10-06-2009, 09:12 PM
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So, what was his reasoning for why he is better than Darton? I am intrigued.
I wish bates had a catalog to list all there goodies too...
I wish bates had a catalog to list all there goodies too...
Last edited by mkriebs; 10-06-2009 at 09:12 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
10-07-2009, 12:54 AM
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**Grabs twizzlers and watches thread.**
I am interested to see how these Darton sleeves come out. I know Rod went with Bates sleeves and they are working out quite well for him so far.
I am interested to see how these Darton sleeves come out. I know Rod went with Bates sleeves and they are working out quite well for him so far.
10-07-2009, 03:41 AM
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yeah, let me make it clear that I'm not saying anything bad about Darton. They make an excellent product as well and are known for there reliability.
its just that Ray is ready to take on my project asap, and is very close to my house so it just seems like the way to go. i will post all results and total costs so everyone can keep him in mind as an option.
I just know if GMR uses him i feel comfortable using him as well.
I want to thank TTR, and Fast98 for all the help you guys offered. and i will likely continue to purchase many product from you guys in the future.
TTR, Aaron, thanks for getting those piston rings out asap.
I suggest contacting Ray Bates, he can do wonders for the lnf im sure. If he isnt working on that already that is.
its just that Ray is ready to take on my project asap, and is very close to my house so it just seems like the way to go. i will post all results and total costs so everyone can keep him in mind as an option.
I just know if GMR uses him i feel comfortable using him as well.
I want to thank TTR, and Fast98 for all the help you guys offered. and i will likely continue to purchase many product from you guys in the future.
TTR, Aaron, thanks for getting those piston rings out asap.
I suggest contacting Ray Bates, he can do wonders for the lnf im sure. If he isnt working on that already that is.
Last edited by hungryhip-ccp; 10-07-2009 at 03:41 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
10-07-2009, 04:56 AM
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10-07-2009, 05:49 AM
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yeah, let me make it clear that I'm not saying anything bad about Darton. They make an excellent product as well and are known for there reliability.
its just that Ray is ready to take on my project asap, and is very close to my house so it just seems like the way to go. i will post all results and total costs so everyone can keep him in mind as an option.
I just know if GMR uses him i feel comfortable using him as well.
I want to thank TTR, and Fast98 for all the help you guys offered. and i will likely continue to purchase many product from you guys in the future.
TTR, Aaron, thanks for getting those piston rings out asap.
I suggest contacting Ray Bates, he can do wonders for the lnf im sure. If he isnt working on that already that is.
its just that Ray is ready to take on my project asap, and is very close to my house so it just seems like the way to go. i will post all results and total costs so everyone can keep him in mind as an option.
I just know if GMR uses him i feel comfortable using him as well.
I want to thank TTR, and Fast98 for all the help you guys offered. and i will likely continue to purchase many product from you guys in the future.
TTR, Aaron, thanks for getting those piston rings out asap.
I suggest contacting Ray Bates, he can do wonders for the lnf im sure. If he isnt working on that already that is.
10-07-2009, 10:31 AM
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The one for no.2 cracked in three places on me. The cylinders aren't weak at all like most will say. It was a flaw in one of the sleeves that wasn't caught the first time the engine was built. That and I left the car in the hands of an irresponsible and unexperienced technician.
It's okay though, he just lost his job two weeks ago.
It's okay though, he just lost his job two weeks ago.
10-07-2009, 11:57 AM
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I cracked #4, everything i read says they handle 600hp crank. i think i was at 450hp crank, 400whp (guessing)
i dynod 370 on 19psi before i was tuned. and i was running 23psi.
i think i had an issue of the meth stacking on top of the valves on number 4 (closest to the nozzle) and it led to detonation.
that may be the disadvantage to running as big of shot of meth as i was running. in a sc application it gets eaten up pretty good, in my application the meth continued to spray and stack up even though that cyl is not on the intake/fueling stroke.
i had severe detonation on in that cyl, (i think)
i used to get a hickup during a pull sometimes like it missed a beat, like it misfired once and kept revving till redline. i always considered it spark blow out, i have a feeling now that it was really detonation the whole time. (i think)
it also only happened when it was really cold outside, which makes me think that the methanol couldn't evaporate all the way making the problem occur.
I was running a 7gph nozzle activated @ 5psi it was also 100% M1, i probably should of had it 50/50 or 60/40 at most so that it wasnt flammable then maybe it would of helped detonation instead of possibly contribute to it.
if you think about it now that i have been seeing all these aftermarket sleeves the stock ones are pretty weak. i think anyone spraying more than 75 shot and any tvs or turbo build should factor this into the cost.
its always cheaper to do it the first time.
i dynod 370 on 19psi before i was tuned. and i was running 23psi.
i think i had an issue of the meth stacking on top of the valves on number 4 (closest to the nozzle) and it led to detonation.
that may be the disadvantage to running as big of shot of meth as i was running. in a sc application it gets eaten up pretty good, in my application the meth continued to spray and stack up even though that cyl is not on the intake/fueling stroke.
i had severe detonation on in that cyl, (i think)
i used to get a hickup during a pull sometimes like it missed a beat, like it misfired once and kept revving till redline. i always considered it spark blow out, i have a feeling now that it was really detonation the whole time. (i think)
it also only happened when it was really cold outside, which makes me think that the methanol couldn't evaporate all the way making the problem occur.
I was running a 7gph nozzle activated @ 5psi it was also 100% M1, i probably should of had it 50/50 or 60/40 at most so that it wasnt flammable then maybe it would of helped detonation instead of possibly contribute to it.
if you think about it now that i have been seeing all these aftermarket sleeves the stock ones are pretty weak. i think anyone spraying more than 75 shot and any tvs or turbo build should factor this into the cost.
its always cheaper to do it the first time.