When I swapped my pads over the weekend I had a brief thought about brake ducts and a quick look under the car kind of told me that it wouldn't be an easy thing to add and would require some cutting.

Would adding brake ducts be completely unnecessary with a car this light and brakes as big as they are with a good pad on the front for the track? My previous track days were run with a Lightning and even with the extra cooling help things still didn't stay real happy. Obviously I'm looking at two vehicles that are like comparing an apple to a block of lead here though.

If it isn't unnecessary, who has done it and do you have any pictures of your set up to provoke some thoughts on where to place the inlets and where to route them?

 

I've been running sans ducts, but with real race pads (Cobalt XR1). Not even lick of fade. However, my dust boots aren't terribly happy. I run titanium shims to help prevent some of the heat transfer to boots and pistons. I probably need to double up the shims for it to be more effective. If they run cooler, the life of the pads and rotors would be extended.

John Powell's got an LNF ducting kit in the works. I've played around with the idea of drilling into the control arm and mounting a shield to duct air towards the rotors. Same method that Mitsu and Porsche use. I tried it without drilling, but you need more stability than that.

 

I've got Carbotech XP10's for the front for track use, don't know how those compare to the XR1's though.

 

I'm not a fan of any of the Carbotechs up to XP12. I haven't tried the 16, endurance, or the new one that isn't listed on their page yet.

 

I've been starting to look into brake ducts to add some extra cooling. I boil my brake fluid every time I go to stratotech in fort saskatchewan. I've tried Motul RBF 600 DOT 4 and Motul DOT 5.1 both boiled at roughly the same time.

My rotors are Slotted and Vented Powerslots. The pads are Carbotech AX6 and I love them, they have no fade whatsoever.

However I drive it hard on the track and stop hard. Stratotech is supposed to be hard on brakes compared to other tracks.

So, the conclusion I've come to is I need more cooling for racing. So I'll be looking at that LNF brake duct kit. That would be cool.

 

Motul 600 should easily outlast AX6, unless you are on a very low speed course with no long straights. Not my preferred fluid though. If your pedal never goes to the floor, you are getting pad fade, not fluid fade.

I run either Endless RF650 or Prospeed RS683. Never had fluid fade in this car, or pad fade, but I also run full on race pads. I've used Cobalt Friction XR1, which were good, but wore out way too fast. I moved on to Raybestos ST43, and they've been great so far.

 

any update on the brake ducts?

 

I have an idea for a setup for my LS but that doesnt help any of you LSJ or LNF guys. i would have to have access to one to tear apart the front end and see how it could be routed.

 

When I was at powells house he showed me them on one of the lsj's he had there. It's available if you contact him as far as i know

 

removing the dust shields for the track helps a lot. I don't know if you've tried that. I did that with the Cobalt and the Mustang and no sign of brake fade and I was using HPS on the Cobalt, which aren't very track oriented. I'm never on the track for more than 20-30 mins at a time tho so if you're going to be on for more, that may not be enough.

 

There are no dust shields on a TC Cobalt.

Also, HPS is no where near enough brake pad if you are going fast on track. They are worse than the stock Ferodos. I think that's terrible advise. For beginners and intermediates, I think the stock pads are probably fine. When you start going really fast, you're going to need real track pads.

 

define fast? 100+ and braking?

 

true, my bad.

I wasn't advising that he gets HPS. I said they weren't track oriented.

 

i go 100+ and braking mac but i dont drive my car anywhere near like john powell david do rick bragstad or wang do lol

 

hhr dont brake so well from 140 to 0 =p

 

Try a set of full race pads and you will most definately notice a difference on the track. I had a friend running a track day on HP plus and I told him I was running Hawk race pads so that night we switched his car to the race pads he went back to the track the next day. He came off the track and said Holy Crap do those things stop. I wont run a track day with out some race pads installed I want to try the Raybestos pads and see how they are when I wear my current ones out.

 

Yeah I ran the Motul 600 last year and the fluid boiled too. It's definitely fluid fade/boiling, the pedal goes right to the floor and I have to pump it a few times to get pedal feel back. (This is almost always after close to 10 mins or 9-10 laps of the track, hard driving. Not tire squealing, reckless hard. Just fast and hard on the brakes)

It could be the track and my driving style. haha. The track is about 1 mile and is actually made for karts (nuff said). However on the main straight i can still go 180 Km/h (110 ish mph?), then I'm hard on the brakes. I want to push myself and the car to it's limits so I can learn to deal with it and learn from my mistakes. But I'm not the only one boiling fluid either.

I had a friend tell me that I might need to, ever so slightly, drag my brakes on the main straight to help with transferring heat from the caliper/pads into the rotor where the heat can be dissipated a bit more effectively. Just incase there is a gap between pad and rotor when I'm off the brakes.

I dunno. I guess the real test will be when the new track at Castrol Raceway opens up. A PROPER road course designed for cars (not karts) @ roughly 2 Miles long. It's supposed to have some decent straights and higher speed corners. He said an 07 Cadillac CTS-V (400 version) would likely get up to 240 km/h (145-150 mph?) on the main straight. That should give my brakes a bit more time to cool off.

And I'm curious. Do you think that Going from the Carbotech AX6 (which, as I said, didn't seem to fade at all on my car) to a more high end racing pad might REDUCE heat build up?? It seems kinda backwards to me, but experience speaks louder than what seems logical.

 

You have a few options to help you out. I'd say go w/ Endless RF650 or Prospeed RS683. Race pads should help a little, because you shouldn't have to be on the pedal as long, which reduces the amount of heat transfer. The other is titanium shims. I use them to help reduce heat transfer to the pistons. I had a company cut some for our pads.

DH548 Titanium Brake Backing Plate for Chevrolet Cobalt SS Brembo [TS-T-DH0548] : Hard Brakes - Titanium Brake Backing Plates, Brake Shims, Brake Heat Shields

Ultimately though, you'll need more air, and more time off the pedal. A kart track will murder your brakes. It should be much better on a big track.

 

can someone plez post pix of said ducts

 

OOH! Those shims are kind of like the ones that came with our stock pads. except they cover the whole pad by the look of it. Interesting... And I think I will look into some more high end track pads, and not just autocross pads.

Thanks for the tips.

 

Since this thread was all that came up when I searched for brake ducts, thought I'd post the pic of Powell's brake ducts kit for future generations

 

where do those mount?

 

On the control arms. I'm putting mine on today and will post pics. Here's a pic from Powell:

 

That is sweet
Its so simple

 

I have these air deflectors from John Powell and they work fine!