Brake Upgrade for SS/TC
04-23-2010, 08:55 PM
#1
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Brake Upgrade for SS/TC
So, I do the occasional autocross, and i was wanting some better brakes. naturally I don't need to replace the Brembo's in the front, but the rear could use some work, and maybe new rotors and pads all around.
Anyone have any suggestions on what I could get for my SS/TC?
Anyone have any suggestions on what I could get for my SS/TC?
04-24-2010, 09:49 PM
#3
Haz l33t wheelz.
04-25-2010, 12:20 AM
#6
From what I've seen on my own car and have read countless times, there are 2 reasons why we have rear brake issues. 1 is that the slide pins on the calipers are not lubed from the factory so the caliper cannot slide side to side causing the inner pads to wear out quicker. The reason our rotors score is because the pads are made of an overly aggressive compound for our rotors. In answer to your question, some drilled and slotted rotors from R1 concepts along with some Hawk HPS pads should do nicely to improve your braking and fix the rear brake issues.
04-25-2010, 09:36 AM
#7
There isn't enough weight or downforce on the rear to justify upgrading them. It's a waste to upgrade the rears. I think it's worth taking apart the rears to lube the pins. I havent had too many problems with the stock rear pads, but then I think that beating them on the track helped. If you try to use too much pad in the rear, you'll lock them up.
You'll probably find that the back of the car likes to "dance" under really hard braking. If this is what you're trying to solve, nothing short of a real wing will solve that. It won't swap ends, but it's a little unnerving if you're not used to it.
Something like hawk hp+ or hps is probably as aggressive as I would try. Maybe axxis ultimates if they make them for our car.
You'll probably find that the back of the car likes to "dance" under really hard braking. If this is what you're trying to solve, nothing short of a real wing will solve that. It won't swap ends, but it's a little unnerving if you're not used to it.
Something like hawk hp+ or hps is probably as aggressive as I would try. Maybe axxis ultimates if they make them for our car.
04-25-2010, 11:10 AM
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After my inner rear pads got down to medal you could hear how slow they would release when you take off from a light. I got mine warrentied and so did most people. Still got about 30 autocrosses and three track days and 13K street miles.
04-25-2010, 11:26 AM
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From what I've seen on my own car and have read countless times, there are 2 reasons why we have rear brake issues. 1 is that the slide pins on the calipers are not lubed from the factory so the caliper cannot slide side to side causing the inner pads to wear out quicker. The reason our rotors score is because the pads are made of an overly aggressive compound for our rotors. In answer to your question, some drilled and slotted rotors from R1 concepts along with some Hawk HPS pads should do nicely to improve your braking and fix the rear brake issues.
Here's the exception: If you're a newer driver(don't have lots of trackdays or race experience) drilled are probably ok for trackdays while you're learning. Although you might think you're going fast, unless you are hauling but in the advanced or race group you're really not. Drilled rotors will normally be ok at the lower temps and speeds that newer drivers see. For spirited street use drilled are also fine. Determine your skill level and needs.
Since it sounds like you're a newer driver and only need your brakes to work for AutoX some new pads like the HPS and fresh fluid like motul RBF will probably be just what you need.
Dog
04-25-2010, 10:24 PM
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I kind of agree with the above, especially on the maintenance issue with lubing the slide pins. I was thinking just new pads should provide the braking you need for autoX. I disagree about the rotor choice. Never buy drilled rotors for a high performance application. Holes cause cracks. Slotted is acceptable, but smooth is best. Drilled rotors are bling for the street crowd that doesn't really go fast.
Here's the exception: If you're a newer driver(don't have lots of trackdays or race experience) drilled are probably ok for trackdays while you're learning. Although you might think you're going fast, unless you are hauling but in the advanced or race group you're really not. Drilled rotors will normally be ok at the lower temps and speeds that newer drivers see. For spirited street use drilled are also fine. Determine your skill level and needs.
Since it sounds like you're a newer driver and only need your brakes to work for AutoX some new pads like the HPS and fresh fluid like motul RBF will probably be just what you need.
Dog
Here's the exception: If you're a newer driver(don't have lots of trackdays or race experience) drilled are probably ok for trackdays while you're learning. Although you might think you're going fast, unless you are hauling but in the advanced or race group you're really not. Drilled rotors will normally be ok at the lower temps and speeds that newer drivers see. For spirited street use drilled are also fine. Determine your skill level and needs.
Since it sounds like you're a newer driver and only need your brakes to work for AutoX some new pads like the HPS and fresh fluid like motul RBF will probably be just what you need.
Dog
So i think imma go with Slotted rotors and some hawk pads.
But thats good to know about the caliper pins. Seems like i just gotta keep em lubed up. My Brakes work good for autocross I just want some longevity from them (as in last more than 1 year...)
04-25-2010, 10:27 PM
#11
I wouldn't have mentioned drilled if I had noticed that this was in the autocross thread 
. I guess that's what happens when you just hit "new threads" all the time. I only meant drilled and slotted for street use. I honestly don't plan on racing my car pretty much ever except drag racing and if I find an open track day or get to do a few classes.
. I guess that's what happens when you just hit "new threads" all the time. I only meant drilled and slotted for street use. I honestly don't plan on racing my car pretty much ever except drag racing and if I find an open track day or get to do a few classes.
04-25-2010, 10:39 PM
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Heh, Right on. Well I do autocross and drag racing on occasion, just for fun. I really wanna try track racing. These Turbo 'Balts aren't really cut out for autox. Track racing is more their forte.
04-25-2010, 11:57 PM
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Porsche does produce some models with drilled rotors that are made differently than your average (including Corvette) rotors. They are cast with the holes in the rotor, not drilled afterward. The Porsche rotors are not much more likely to crack than a smooth or slotted rotor. Of course they cost way more than a standard rotor.
Dog
04-26-2010, 11:22 AM
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Yah that would make more sense, to have them forged with the holes rather than compromise the integrity of the metal by drilling it.
On a side note, Imagine how pissed you would be if you bought a corvette ZR1 with the Carbon Ceramic Drilled and slotted rotors and they cracked after a year... Those things aren't cheap!!! My uncle owns one and says it would cost $14,000 to do a full brake job on his ZR1.... Dayum. However, makes you wonder if the Carbon ceramic material would crack like the normal ones...
On a side note, Imagine how pissed you would be if you bought a corvette ZR1 with the Carbon Ceramic Drilled and slotted rotors and they cracked after a year... Those things aren't cheap!!! My uncle owns one and says it would cost $14,000 to do a full brake job on his ZR1.... Dayum. However, makes you wonder if the Carbon ceramic material would crack like the normal ones...
04-27-2010, 07:28 AM
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Yah that would make more sense, to have them forged with the holes rather than compromise the integrity of the metal by drilling it.
On a side note, Imagine how pissed you would be if you bought a corvette ZR1 with the Carbon Ceramic Drilled and slotted rotors and they cracked after a year... Those things aren't cheap!!! My uncle owns one and says it would cost $14,000 to do a full brake job on his ZR1.... Dayum. However, makes you wonder if the Carbon ceramic material would crack like the normal ones...
On a side note, Imagine how pissed you would be if you bought a corvette ZR1 with the Carbon Ceramic Drilled and slotted rotors and they cracked after a year... Those things aren't cheap!!! My uncle owns one and says it would cost $14,000 to do a full brake job on his ZR1.... Dayum. However, makes you wonder if the Carbon ceramic material would crack like the normal ones...
The purpose/theory behind crossed drilled rotors is that under breaking the heat from the pads generate a gas between the rotor and the pad itself greatly reducing breaking efficiency, otherwise known as brake fade. So by drilling the rotor it allows the gasses to vent through the rotor allowing full pad to rotor contact, but this was true of older technology pads and today we have pads that hardly produce any type of gas under high temps. So drilled or slotted rotors are not necessary anymore.
04-27-2010, 08:34 AM
#19
Let's dispel a few myths. No one, Porsche included, produces rotors with holes that are cast. Yes, they once did that, but not anymore. They crack more than slotted rotors of the same variety. The reason they still do it is for bite on the pads. You only get a little bit of cooling from the holes at full usage. A few brake companies have rotors that have little curved slots. Those give similar bite to the pad, without the same possibility of cracking. One thing about slots though, if the rotor and pad material aren't suited well, the slots just end up filling in with metal slag, and you end up with normal rotors.
ZR1 is a different story. Those are carbon ceramics rotors. They should be able to handle the high temps without cracking. It's actually somewhat amazing that they work at cold temps too. Also, the rear brakes of the ZR1 are what were on the Enzo. The front brakes on the ZR1 are even bigger. If you ever get the chance to ride in one, do it. The acceleration is just plain stupid.
Something new that I saw. An Audi B5 S4 managed to completely separate a stock rotor into two pieces. It's a single cast piece! The hat was completely separate and loose from the ring. I thought that was impressive.
ZR1 is a different story. Those are carbon ceramics rotors. They should be able to handle the high temps without cracking. It's actually somewhat amazing that they work at cold temps too. Also, the rear brakes of the ZR1 are what were on the Enzo. The front brakes on the ZR1 are even bigger. If you ever get the chance to ride in one, do it. The acceleration is just plain stupid.
Something new that I saw. An Audi B5 S4 managed to completely separate a stock rotor into two pieces. It's a single cast piece! The hat was completely separate and loose from the ring. I thought that was impressive.
04-28-2010, 02:41 PM
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I'm thinking about running my Cobalt at Gingerman in a couple weeks. Does anyone know anything about what the stock pads are? I'm trying to decide what to do with pads. It will be the first time to any track with the Cobalt (though I have run a bunch of auto crosses with it) but it will be my fifth track day, fourth on this track, and second on this track this year. So I'm familiar with the track itself and expect to be driving fairly aggressively although the stock tires limit that somewhat as those will not change before then. Are the stock pads something that could be expected to hold up ok or should I look into something else? What else is anyone running for pads on these cars on track and how is the pad/rotor wear?
04-28-2010, 04:28 PM
#22
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The stock pad from the dealer on the SS/TC was enough pad for me on my first two track days. Unfortunately, I ran Hawk HPS's on my third and fourth days and they just weren't enough stopping power compared to stock for track purposes.
Wangspeed has said a lot of good things about the Cobalt Friction XR1 pads, so I've got those on order for my next track day (Laguna Seca!!). But if it's your first time on track with the SS/TC, I'd say check the remaining pad life on your stock pads, and if they have enough meat left, give them a shot at Gingerman.
Wangspeed has said a lot of good things about the Cobalt Friction XR1 pads, so I've got those on order for my next track day (Laguna Seca!!). But if it's your first time on track with the SS/TC, I'd say check the remaining pad life on your stock pads, and if they have enough meat left, give them a shot at Gingerman.
04-28-2010, 04:42 PM
#23
The stock pads are Ferodo. Not sure what compound, but they were good enough for a fast lap at the Ring. I'd say keep them on. HPS are not really track pads, so I could see why those failed.
Tough to say if the stock pads will be enough. Depends on how you're driving. If you get the right pad compound, the rotors should not wear much at all.
Joe, give us a review on the CF pads when you're done! Always interesting to see if other folks opinions match mine.
Tough to say if the stock pads will be enough. Depends on how you're driving. If you get the right pad compound, the rotors should not wear much at all.
Joe, give us a review on the CF pads when you're done! Always interesting to see if other folks opinions match mine.
04-28-2010, 06:56 PM
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I'm thinking about running my Cobalt at Gingerman in a couple weeks. Does anyone know anything about what the stock pads are? I'm trying to decide what to do with pads. It will be the first time to any track with the Cobalt (though I have run a bunch of auto crosses with it) but it will be my fifth track day, fourth on this track, and second on this track this year. So I'm familiar with the track itself and expect to be driving fairly aggressively although the stock tires limit that somewhat as those will not change before then. Are the stock pads something that could be expected to hold up ok or should I look into something else? What else is anyone running for pads on these cars on track and how is the pad/rotor wear?
From what I felt the stock pads are matched pretty well with the tires. I did a 20min session on the car there and brake fade wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. If your going to be pushing the car hard then I say upgrade the pads and get better tires. Definitely could've used better tires when I ran his car.
I can't wait to head back this year with my SS, what event are you going to?