Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

I've searched all over, anyone find something else suitable?

GM Part # 88862472 is very hard to find and I don't need 6 qts from GMPD. Just 2.

Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

Anyone?? Maven?

Red Line make anything compatible?

I emailed their support line to see what they say.

fakameanrepresent

iTrader: (4)

i thought redline is okay to put in to our car??

08SStc

iTrader: (5)

i have redlines 70w90 NS in my SSTC tranny. been in since 15000 miles, gotabout 30000 now. doesnt have the friction modifiers like the other one thats for LSD with clutches. our LSD arent a clutchtype, so we dont need them

Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

I was asking because I think they put LSJ fluid in mine. It's shifted stiffer than original even after installing the ZZP clutch rod after the clutch.

I read on bobistheoilguy forum that to get the GL-4 75-85 we would have to mix 25% Red Line MTL with 75% MT-90.

Can't find Castrol Syntrans which is what ours is supposed to be according to a Maven post, or Mitsu DiaQueen but don't need 4 liters of DiaQueen.

08SStc - Does the Red Line 75-90W NS work well? No syncro issues or grinding? Smooth shifts?
I see it's a GL-5 oil though, ours is GL-4???

Found the specs for the Castrol Syntrans 75w-85 GL-4, see below.



Red Line MT-90 :

API Service Class GL 4
SAE Viscosity Grade (Motor Oil) 15W40
SAE Viscosity Grade (Gear Oil) 75W90
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.6
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 90
Viscosity Index 185
Pour Point, °C -45
Pour Point, °F -49
Flash Point, °C 240
Flash Point, °F 465
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C, Poise 320

Red Line MTL:

PI Service Class GL 4
SAE Viscosity Grade (Motor Oil) 5W30
SAE Viscosity Grade (Gear Oil) 70W80
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 10.6
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 56.2
Viscosity Index 183
Pour Point, °C -50
Pour Point, °F -58
Flash Point, °C 232
Flash Point, °F 450
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C, Poise 120

Red Line 75W-90 NS GL-5:

PI Service Class GL 5+
Viscosity Grade SAE 75W90
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.6
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 95
Viscosity Index 176
Pour Point, °C -45
Pour Point, °F -49
Flash Point, °C 221
Flash Point, °F 430
Brookfield Viscosity, Poise 400 @ -40°C

Looks like a 50/50 blend of Red Line MT-90 and MTL would be pretty close to the Castrol Syntrans viscosities.

qwikredline

mixing oils like you describe is Fail. It is smarter to stick with the OEM fluid

Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

I agree, if I could find it. All the parts catalogs online no longer even list it. Any luck for you?

ebristol

iTrader: (4)

I just bought 6 qtrs from GMPD.

Better safe then sorry.

qwikredline

agreed both part numbers are readily available go to Crate Engine Depot for the best OEM service...

Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

Not listed on CED's website or on GMPD anymore. I guess I'll have to call them. They were listed on GMPD last week but I don't need 6. My local dealer hasn't been able to get it.

GM Part # 88862472 LNF F35 fluid, not LSJ fluid.

ebristol

iTrader: (4)

LSJ's use Saturn synthetic transmission lubricant PN#21018899

This is a pretty good How To Change the fluid.

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/how-guide-43/how-change-ss-sc-transmission-fluid-112595/

Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

Like I said, it's different fluid than the LNF. We have friction modifiers for the No Lift Shift. (NLS)

ebristol

iTrader: (4)

I know. I just threw that in here because I am sure there are a lot of LSJ thinking..."dam. I should change my transmission fluid."

ls1fbody

LNF fluid is a good upgrade for the LSJ trans.

SC07

there are old threads on this somewhere.
your answer is royal purple maxgear 75w 90

meets and exceeds all specs. great stuff...and the best part is, oreillys/murrays has it

Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

Royal Purple Maxgear 75w-90 is too thick compared to the LNF fluid, and is a GL-5 fluid with limited slip additives the LSD in the F35 doesn't need from what I can find on Maxgear. Thanks for the suggestion anyway.

Typical Properties* 75W90
Viscosity
cSt @ 40°C 132.3
cSt @ 100°C 19.1
SSU @100°F 677
SSU @ 210°F 97

08SSTCRD

Exactly. You don't want to put any fluid in a manual trans that has friction modifier. The friction modifier additive is designed to reduce friction between the clutch plates in limited slip diffs, which is exactly the opposite of what you want in a manual trans with blocker rings and synchros. Basically the limited slip additive creates too little friction, preventing the blocker ring from synchronozing the speed gear.

ninja44

iTrader: (1)

I just called my local GM parts guy and he told me that it has to come direct from manufacturer and it doesn't even list his cost or any pricing for that matter.

Supercharged Guy

iTrader: (1)

Royal Purple Max Gear 75w-90 thats the best stuff out there

ls1fbody

No it's not.

But go ahead, use it in your transmission. The shifts will get harder, and it'll feel "sticky".

Then watch your syncro's wear out because the friction modifiers are wrong.

Believe it or not, those engineer fellows at GM know what the **** they're doing.

JDM74

Your local dealer should be able to pull up the inventories of all the dealers in the area and see if anybody close has it. Did they do that? I live in a little town and my dealer did this and found 2 quarts about 20 miles away.

Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

2 qts 90 miles away and when they got it, it was LSJ fluid inventoried wrong. That's what's in it now after the clutch change, it shifts a lot stiffer than stock and the syncros don't mesh right. Hard to get into gear without rev matching.

I can see where the LNF fluid is an upgrade for you LSJ guys.

GL-4 Red Line MT-90 will be here by the weekend to try. If it sux, I'll try and locate more LNF fluid in a week or two. Thanks for all the input and opinions.

SC07

What proof do you have of this? max gear's information sheet specifically said it is compatible with manual transmissions and syncro's, and it passes all gl-4 and 5 requirements, and also passes GM's specs for warranty.

Of course GM engineers know what they're talking about, but it would pass their requirements and they wouldn't warranty it if it was detrimental to the trans.

08SSTCRD

Royal Purple MaxGear, and most other gear oils, are designed to be run in Hypoid gear sets, which often have clutch packs for their LSD's. Therefore RP adds in the friction modifier for those clutch packs, which reduces clutch friction and prevents lockup/chatter when going around turns.

Straight from the Royal Purple website:

"All viscosities of Max-Gear are formulated with hypoid friction modifiers necessary for use in clutch or cone type differentials. No additional additives are necessary."

Unfortunately, that friction modifier has a negative effect in manual transmissions, where you want a certain amount of available friction to allow the blocker rings to do their job. If the fluid has friction modifier in it, such as with the RP, it can cause slow synchronization of the speed gear, resluting in gears being locked out and/or gear clash. Your trans is still new, so you probably won't notice this, but as you put more miles on it the symptoms of using the wrong fluid will become apparent.

SC07

i have 70k on my trans and have only ever used max gear.
our blocker rings are plastic anyways. but hey, if i notice and synchro issues, ill be glad to report

for reference:

"Most GL5 differential and GL4 Manual Transmission oils contain sulfur-phosphorous EP packages. GL4 does NOT refer to any specific viscosity, but it refers to a level of AW/EP protection for the gearing and bearings in a transmission. GL4-rated oils contain about 40% to 60% of the EP additives that GL5 oils contain.

Both differential and manual transmission fluids use chemical compounds that subdue or inhibit the corrosive effects of sulfur and phosphorous such as calcium, magnesium, boron, potassium or other basic compounds. Emulsifiers, corrosion and rust inhibitors also are included to do their respective jobs.

GL5 differential lubes use friction modifiers to reduce mechanical and fluid friction and add some anti-shudder friction modifier for limited slip, both very different chemical compounds.

Manual Transmission fluids use a different friction modifier for synchro engagement, a modifier that does NOT contain the same Friction Modifier chemicals as differential lubes.

Most manual transmission "specific" fluids (GL4) contain about 40% to 60% of the EP additive of differential lubes (GL5) with inactive or buffered sulphurs. GL4 has come to infer a gear lube with the above percentages of EP additive. The exception of course is ATF fluid used in some of the newer transmissions.

Therefore, both lubes contain the same EP additives, just in different strengths or additive ratios.

Ever since the synchromesh-type fluids appeared on the scene (such as the GM Synchromesh fluid), drivers have had better shifting due to better synchro engagement, attributed to the specialized friction modifier used in these lubes. This specialized friction modifier is better for metallic and composite synchros in terms of shifting and life.

Manual Transmission fluids use a different friction modifier specifically designed for synchro engagement, a modifier that does NOT contain the same chemical compounds as do differential lubes.

A synchromesh fluid usually refers to a specialized fluid that contains special friction modification additives for transmissions that use mechanical synchronizer assemblies; those synchronizer assemblies may be made of carbon fiber composites, sintered metal.

You also have to consider the viscosity of the fluid that the transmission was designed for. The spectrum now ranges from ATF to 75W90 viscosities and therefore a synchromesh GL4 Manual Transmission Lubricant (MTL) can be any viscosity from 7.0 cSt (ATF equivalent viscosity) to a 75W90 type viscosity of approx. 14.5 cSt, and contains special friction modification additives for synchronizer assembly engagement.
brass/bronze, or steel-steel materials.

Current MTL GL4 viscosites are:

1. ATF Series - Type; 6.5 to 8.5 cSt (Equivalent ATF viscosity; Note: ATF additive package is weak compared to most GL 4's)
2. Synchromesh Series -Type; 9.3 - 9.5 cSt (such as Amsoils MTF, Texaco's MTL, Pennzoil's Synchromesh, GM and Chrysler's Synchromesh)
3. 75W85 Series-Type; 9.8 to 11.5 cSt ( Redline's MTL, RP's Synchromax LT, Nissan's MTL, Honda MTL, Castrol Syntorq LT)
4. 75W90 Series-Type; 12.8 to 14.5 cSt (Amsoil's MTG, Redline's MT-90).

MTL specific lubes we're developed for manual tranny's and transaxles, and not for differentials or industrial gear boxes. A differential lube may not kill your tranny, but it is not the optimum lube for it. A diffy 75W90 (GL5) usually has a higher viscosity than does an mtl in the same advertized weight."