Drivetrain Transmission, LSD, Clutch, Driveline, Axles...

Non-LSD

Old Sep 14, 2010 | 10:49 PM
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Non-LSD

Hey all this is my first post so go easy on me... I have a '07 stock SS/SC non-g85 that is my daily driver. I would like to eventually hit high 13's in the quarter mile and drag racing is the only racing ill be doing with the car.

My question is can the open diff take the same abuse as the LSD? am I at a huge disadvantage trying to run 13's without the lsd?
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Old Sep 14, 2010 | 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MyOtherSS
Hey all this is my first post so go easy on me... I have a '07 stock SS/SC non-g85 that is my daily driver. I would like to eventually hit high 13's in the quarter mile and drag racing is the only racing ill be doing with the car.

My question is can the open diff take the same abuse as the LSD? am I at a huge disadvantage trying to run 13's without the lsd?
With FWD, having a limited slip differential is much less critical than it is in a RWD application. Typically, when you launch a FWD car in a straight line, it will spin both tires pretty evenly.

Where the LSD really comes into play is in turns. If you throttle your car hard around a turn (such as on a road course) it will spin the inside wheel instead of powering both wheels. With the LSD, both wheels recieve power regardless of the weight transfer, so you can put the power down much more effectively.

To answer your question, no, you are not at a huge disadvantage. Sure, an LSD helps, but its not completely necessary.
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Old Sep 15, 2010 | 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 08SSTCRD
With FWD, having a limited slip differential is much less critical than it is in a RWD application. Typically, when you launch a FWD car in a straight line, it will spin both tires pretty evenly.

Where the LSD really comes into play is in turns. If you throttle your car hard around a turn (such as on a road course) it will spin the inside wheel instead of powering both wheels.

With the LSD, both wheels recieve power regardless of the weight transfer , so you can put the power down much more effectively.

To answer your question, no, you are not at a huge disadvantage. Sure, an LSD helps, but its not completely necessary.
Geared LSD
I believe Cobalt has Quaife
" The 2008-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Turbocharged features an optional Quaife ATB Limited Slip Differential and revised suspension geometry to reduce torque steer. "


Quaife differential, sold under the name Automatic Torque Biasing Differential (ATB), covered by European Patent No. 130806A2.

Geared LSDs use worm gears rather than clutches of the clutch type and the cones of the cone type, and work by "multiplying" the torque from the slowest moving wheel to the fastest , rather than actively controlling slip.

In the case of slip, the wheel in contact can receive up to X times the torque applied to the wheel which is slipping, where X is the torque multiplication value for the differential . In this sense, torque sensitive differentials are not strictly limited slip - once an output shaft becomes free (e.g., one driven wheel lifts off the ground; or a summer tire comes over ice while another is on dry tarmac when the car goes uphill), no torque is transmitted to the second shaft and the torque-sensitive differential behaves like an open differential

Last edited by ronn; Sep 15, 2010 at 02:26 AM.
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Old Sep 15, 2010 | 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ronn
Geared LSD
I believe Cobalt has Quaife
" The 2008-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Turbocharged features an optional Quaife ATB Limited Slip Differential and revised suspension geometry to reduce torque steer. "


Quaife differential, sold under the name Automatic Torque Biasing Differential (ATB), covered by European Patent No. 130806A2.

Geared LSDs use worm gears rather than clutches of the clutch type and the cones of the cone type, and work by "multiplying" the torque from the slowest moving wheel to the fastest , rather than actively controlling slip.

In the case of slip, the wheel in contact can receive up to X times the torque applied to the wheel which is slipping, where X is the torque multiplication value for the differential . In this sense, torque sensitive differentials are not strictly limited slip - once an output shaft becomes free (e.g., one driven wheel lifts off the ground; or a summer tire comes over ice while another is on dry tarmac when the car goes uphill), no torque is transmitted to the second shaft and the torque-sensitive differential behaves like an open differential
This is correct.

But when you are going around a turn on a road course, the outside wheel has the most traction, and therefore it can supply torque to the inside wheel which is trying to break loose.

If one wheel is in the air or on ice, then no, it will not help as you said.
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Old Sep 15, 2010 | 08:43 PM
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thanks everyone that's what i was hoping to hear.
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Old Sep 16, 2010 | 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 08SSTCRD
This is correct.

But when you are going around a turn on a road course, the outside wheel has the most traction, and therefore it can supply torque to the inside wheel which is trying to break loose.

If one wheel is in the air or on ice, then no, it will not help as you said.
..and therefore it can supply torque to the inside wheel which is trying to break loose.

Wrong. Did you read what I posted in RED?
In the case of slip, the wheel in contact can receive up to X times the torque applied to the wheel which is slipping, where X is the torque multiplication value for the differential

THE WHEEL IN CONTACT CAN RECEIVE UP TO X TIMES THE TORQUE OF THE WHEEL WHICH IS SLIPPING!!!!!!!



You want to DIVERT the power to the wheel doing the work, not the wheel slipping! It's called... LIMITED SLIP for that reason. You can't do anything about the wheel that's SLIPPING, but you can switch some of the power going from the slipping wheel to the wheel doing the most of the work.

Last edited by ronn; Sep 16, 2010 at 12:48 AM.
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Old Sep 16, 2010 | 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ronn
..and therefore it can supply torque to the inside wheel which is trying to break loose.

Wrong. Did you read what I posted in RED?
In the case of slip, the wheel in contact can receive up to X times the torque applied to the wheel which is slipping, where X is the torque multiplication value for the differential

THE WHEEL IN CONTACT CAN RECEIVE UP TO X TIMES THE TORQUE OF THE WHEEL WHICH IS SLIPPING!!!!!!!



You want to DIVERT the power to the wheel doing the work, not the wheel slipping! It's called... LIMITED SLIP for that reason. You can't do anything about the wheel that's SLIPPING, but you can switch some of the power going from the slipping wheel to the wheel doing the most of the work.

I was tired. My bad, you are correct.

Yes, it will transfer torque to the outside wheel, away from the inside wheel which is breaking traction.
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Old Oct 6, 2010 | 02:23 PM
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From my understanding i thought 07s and up came with LSD
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Old Oct 6, 2010 | 02:47 PM
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A common misconception is that an open diff only transmits torque to one wheel. It always applies the same amount of torque to both wheels. So straight-line acceleration is probably equal between a G85 and non-G85.
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