So, is there any good reason not to put a F23 from a Saturn Vue on a cobalt LS? Because the 4.41 final drive ratio would be pretty awesome I bet. It seems to me like getting the whole Vue transmission would be much cheaper than just getting some of the internals from it. Any input would be killer!

 

those trannys are GARBAGE...enough said

 

If you allready have an F23 it might be a good upgrade.

 

Thats what I was thinking. I'm just trying to make sure there wont be any issues. But I cant think of any reason why there would be.

 

I think it would be too much money spent with little reward for a base model, are you auto or stick?

 

5 speed. Im planning on doing this with a plethora of other parts. all Im asking is if there are any known compatibility issues.

 

What are the benefits of changing to the vue trans?

 

^this

 

to the people saying the vue tranny is garbage, what are you basing it on? the vue tranny is an f23, the same as in a cavalier/sunfire 2000+, and in the base and mid level cobalts/pursuit/g5. the difference is the final drive ratio.

i wonder if they have issues because of the heavy vehicle. i know the f23 in general isnt garbage, many people running high horsepower through them, i know one guy had 200 passes with 450whp in a sunfire with an f23.

 

Yeah. the advantage is going from 3.84 final drive to 4.41 final drive. To me, that appears to be a nice boost for acceleration. The 5th gear might be different though, I think I would kill my Hightway MPG.

 

some quick calculating would show cruise rpm going from roughly 2200 at 62mph to 3000 at the same speed. this is the calculator im using, have a look. it should already have the correct ratios for the f23 in it if ive copied the link correctly

Fatboy Raceworks ť Graphical Transmission Gear Ratio Calculator

its a huge increase in rpm, that will definitly be noticed in fuel economy. however, if you were to open up and combind the 2 transmissions, putting the m86 (cobalt/ion/cavalier/sunfire) 5th gear into the mg3 (vue) transmission, it would bring the 62mph cruising rpm down to around 2500rpm. now im assuming this is possible, its been far too long since ive been into an f23 to remember if 5th gear is machined as part of one of the shafts or presses off. even so, it does involve completely disassembling 2 complete transmissions.

 

granted he is talking about the manual tranny, most auto trannies in the vue suck ass.

wife drives a 04 awd v6 auto, and the torque converter acts up quite often, and ive seen several vue on craigslist selling for cheap cause the tranny went out on them.

 

the saturn vue with the v6 is actually a honda motor and transmission. honda automatics arent too bad, however they are expensive to repair. i build a lot of honda automatics, im quite familiar with their issues. there are some fixes internally in the transmission, once done they can be quite reliable. as for the saturn vue with this powertrain, there is a reflash for torque converter clutch problems, however if its been acting up for too long it will cause damage to the transmission and torque converter, and after the reflash may still need to be overhauled.

 

Just do the HHR F23. Final drive is 4.17. Won't kill fuel economy and will give you that acceleration you're looking for.

 

If I remember correctly the vue case is different and that's why you would need to swap the inernals. I looked into this years ago, never got around to doing it tho.

 

You're right. I was researching it as well. The Cobalt/HHR F23 trans are interchangeable though. Then you wouldn't have to screw around with swapping internals.


Really? You're talking gibberish. What are you basing your statements on? This trans is well-known for taking a beating and is used on several platforms world-wide. Quit blowing smoke, fool.

 

Only in the redline's Daniel son.The regular vue's with a V6 are the GM motors.

 

actually, no they are not. 2002-2003 the saturn vue had the saturn/opel l81 3.0l v6. 2004-2007 the v6 engine was labled an L66, however it was a honda ja35a3, and it was hooked to a honda byba or bgra 5 speed automatic transmission. all the redline model added was a body kit, different wheels and better suspension, the engine was not changed.

trust me on this one, i work on a lot of these things at my shop.

 

Ya my friend had one that I worked on all the time but her's was newer so maybe that's the difference then.My bad.

 

The reason you have problems is because its a Honda powertrain, and Honda has by far the worst automatic transmissions in the entire industry.

They all fail, its just a matter of time. I've seen them fail as early as 75K, most fail around 100K.

Somehow this information is not widely known though. If GM, Ford, or Chrysler has such an unreliable design it would be in the front page of every publication

 

actually, thats not true. honda quality has taken a dive since they started building vehicles in north america. i hate pointing it out, but its the truth. 2001 honda automatics are known to be bad, but really what i see in my shop is aside from converter failures (which is generally fixed with lube flow upgrades in the valvebody), they just wear out. i have seen some catastrophic failures in hondas, however they are few and far between. however, the acura mdx transmission (same as the saturn vue) is more commonly known for that. however, honda is not the worst of them. id say currently they are one of the worst, however i can pick out other transmissions that are worse. the dodge fwd 3 and 4 speeds, (a413, a470, a670, and the a604) were the worst transmissions of the 90s. they all failed eventually. the gm 4t65e is another terrible one, ive been seeing them lately at 105k km (roughly 68k miles). the gm 700r4 and 4l60e was another bad one, had some very common failures, and thats one of the most common transmissions i build. for has a couple terrible transmissions as well, the ax4n and cd4e are a pair that they have never seemed to make any better.

i gotta say the most expensive one though im commonly seeing now is nissan rwds, the re5r05a in most rwd applications. the problem isnt the transmission, its the radiator core that fails, filling the tranny with coolant. now because the computer, like many new gm transmissions, is mounted on the valve body, the valve body has to be replaced at a huge cost. commonly, the end cost of this repair is between $5500-6500. and these are a huge problem, there is a class action law suit filed against nissan for it but it hasnt gone anywhere yet. nissan has a secret warrenty extension program on these, however its only till 80k miles, many are failing just after that.

all automatic transmissions eventually need rebuilding, and most i see are between 120-180k km. some are sooner, some are later, it depends on a lot of factors. honda is no better or worse than any other manufacturer, the reason honda comes under fire for their transmission issues now is because for so many years they were the most reliable cars. now they are just like everything else.

 

ok, so back to my original topic

My choices are either:
A- put the Vue's final drive in my transmission. Retaining my 5th gear, and having a 4.41 final drive.
B- Get the HHR's F23 and run a 4.17 final drive. no rebuilding necessary.
C- Suck it up and admit defeat...... (This is the final option). haha

 

goeing from the stock 3.84 to the hhr 4.17 is quite a jump. for a bolt in, im sure you will be plenty happy with it. i think the 4.41 would almost be too much for a street car.

 

^i did the math years ago, the Hhr trans is doable, the vue final drive is just to much. I think it was something like 3800 in fith at 70 mph..... Been a long time I could be off, but it was high on the high way....

 

Yeah it is. Add some power to the 4.17 and you end up with some really short gears. The 4.17 is great as N/A but if you're going to add power(TC/SC) you may want to keep your stock gears unless you're planning on hitting the track a lot. I have decent tires(hankook Ventus v12) and an LSD and I get 2nd gear wheelspin a lot and I am in the midst of building another 50whp. I am getting some sticky tires in the spring so I can actually hook up. I think the 3.84 will redline(7200rpm) 1,2,3rd gears at 40,77,115mph the 4.17 gets you 33,63,96mph...so 4.41 would just plain suck for the street IMHO.