How much boost you pushin with a ported supercharger?
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From: Vine Grove Kentucky
How much boost you pushin with a ported supercharger?
I have a ported supercharge, with 2.6 pulley, 60s, magnaflow catbacj, zzp heat exchanger, hp tuner,, k@n intake, spec stage 3 clutch kit, jet maf sensor.
The way i ported the s/c was i grinded the silencer holes out and and molded the holes with the stock inlet for the boost to come out of the supercharger. I was not gonna be duh duh duh and put that junk in the silencer holes and let it fall out, so i wanted to experiment with the s/c.
I can tell you one thing, when i was only running stock boost and no aftermarket stuff expet for the intake and exaust, my iats were around 130-160, now on a hot day, starting with ambient temps, they will only go to 120 at the msot. I reach a max of 17 pounds of boost, but man, my car pulls way better then it could ever, i might be pushing less boost then some one elses 2.6, but my car prob pulls a whole lot hard with the wider opening..
The whine sound nasty, the exaust note even sounds nastier..
how much bost you pushin?
so what are all you running?
The way i ported the s/c was i grinded the silencer holes out and and molded the holes with the stock inlet for the boost to come out of the supercharger. I was not gonna be duh duh duh and put that junk in the silencer holes and let it fall out, so i wanted to experiment with the s/c.
I can tell you one thing, when i was only running stock boost and no aftermarket stuff expet for the intake and exaust, my iats were around 130-160, now on a hot day, starting with ambient temps, they will only go to 120 at the msot. I reach a max of 17 pounds of boost, but man, my car pulls way better then it could ever, i might be pushing less boost then some one elses 2.6, but my car prob pulls a whole lot hard with the wider opening..
The whine sound nasty, the exaust note even sounds nastier..
how much bost you pushin?
I have a ported supercharge, with 2.6 pulley, 60s, magnaflow catbacj, zzp heat exchanger, hp tuner,, k@n intake, spec stage 3 clutch kit, jet maf sensor.
The way i ported the s/c was i grinded the silencer holes out and and molded the holes with the stock inlet for the boost to come out of the supercharger. I was not gonna be duh duh duh and put that junk in the silencer holes and let it fall out, so i wanted to experiment with the s/c.
I can tell you one thing, when i was only running stock boost and no aftermarket stuff expet for the intake and exaust, my iats were around 130-160, now on a hot day, starting with ambient temps, they will only go to 120 at the msot. I reach a max of 17 pounds of boost, but man, my car pulls way better then it could ever, i might be pushing less boost then some one elses 2.6, but my car prob pulls a whole lot hard with the wider opening..
The whine sound nasty, the exaust note even sounds nastier..
how much bost you pushin?
The way i ported the s/c was i grinded the silencer holes out and and molded the holes with the stock inlet for the boost to come out of the supercharger. I was not gonna be duh duh duh and put that junk in the silencer holes and let it fall out, so i wanted to experiment with the s/c.
I can tell you one thing, when i was only running stock boost and no aftermarket stuff expet for the intake and exaust, my iats were around 130-160, now on a hot day, starting with ambient temps, they will only go to 120 at the msot. I reach a max of 17 pounds of boost, but man, my car pulls way better then it could ever, i might be pushing less boost then some one elses 2.6, but my car prob pulls a whole lot hard with the wider opening..
The whine sound nasty, the exaust note even sounds nastier..
how much bost you pushin?
so what are all you running?
Last edited by Chevycobaltss3; Oct 9, 2009 at 11:23 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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From: Vine Grove Kentucky
sweet
dude i want to hit the 20 mark lol, but it wont, i think its because i did the silencer holes lol.. thanks man,very sweet. Do you have number posted at all any where..
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From: Upstate NY
UMM. Dude you're not supposed to port the silencer holes. And i've had my silencer holes plugged for 65kmi and the quicksteel hasnt loosened up at all. But to anwer your question I ported my blower and with a GM stage 3 pulley its at about 15 lbs.
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From: Corning, NY
My car put down 313whp 304wtq on a dynojet dyno last spring.
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From: Boynton Beach, Fl
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https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l-lsj-performance-tech-47/eaton-superchargers-modification-guide-95307/
There are many different opinions and views regarding how to modify the M-Series, roots type, superchargers made by Eaton. In a recent discussion on another forum, a lot of information was uncovered, along with a solid contact within the Eaton Corporation itself. This thread will outline the findings and what is recommended by the manufacturer itself.
Both the M62 and M90 (most common on this site) are at their peak efficiency levels from the factory. Although running a smaller pulley is the easiest way to generate more power with these applications, it is also the easiest way to push the blower out of its efficiency range and produce gobs of heat. Heat, as you know, is the enemy of all F/I applications. Roots type superchargers, although extremely reliable, are the least efficient due to their drag on the engine by belt as well as their tendency to generate good amounts of heat in regards to the IAT (Intake Air Temperature). Eaton addressed some of these issues when they created their new line of TVS blowers; however, this thread is only concerned with the M-series blowers.
From Eaton.com:
"Eaton manufactures highly engineered, roots-type positive displacement superchargers. The Eaton supercharger increases torque across the entire operating range without compromising drivability or emissions. This allows vehicle manufacturers the option of using smaller, more economical 4- and 6-cylinder engines, without perceived loss in power train performance. Additionally, the supercharger incorporates a bypass system to reduce air handling losses when boost is not required, resulting in better fuel economy. Typical applications are on engines with displacements of 1.8L to 5.3L.
All aftermarket and service (rebuilds) are handled in the United States by Magnuson Products, (www.magnusonproducts.com) and in the Oceania-Asia-Pacific region by Harrop Engineering. (www.harrop.com)
The Eaton Supercharger - One Simple, Powerful Solution.
Eatons Air Management Systems Division designs, manufactures and markets modified Roots-type positive displacement pumps, also known as superchargers, for the original equipment and aftermarket industries."
When it comes to modification of these superchargers, the common areas of modification are:
Porting of the inlet portion of the housing
Porting of the internal housing
Porting of the outlet plate of the housing
Plugging of the "holes" on the outlet plate
Running a smaller pulley
Heat reduction, supporting modifications
The basic idea here is to increase CFM without raising IAT's. As most people on this site drive vehicles with the LSJ engine, M62 application, I will focus on that. These basic principles can be carried over to any other application using an M-Series blower. It should be noted, that the M-series superchargers are effectively air pumps. They do not internally compress the air themselves, but push it into the lower intake manifold. It is in the lower intake manifold that positive pressure emerges. Most folks think Eaton's roots-type units are actually squeezing the air like a screw unit. This is not the truth. No air passes between the rotors, the air is guided by the rotors along the sides of the housing; hence, no internal compression of air.
Porting the M-Series Supercharger:
It is not a good idea to remove too much material from any portion of the blower. Extreme porting of the blower will disrupt the air and will reduce efficiency greatly. A light porting of the inlet housing will help increase intake CFM of the pump. Typically, if a TB (throttle-body) upgrade is available, it helps to match the TB port size to the inlet port for a smooth intake of air with minimal disruption. Smoothing this opening up and enlarging it slightly will help introduce more air into the rotor housing which can then be "pushed" into the lower intake manifold. The inside of the housing can also be lightly ported to increase internal surface area. It is important to note, that internal porting of the rotor housing should be very minimal. Basically, remove any and all casting flashes and ensure complete symmetry while removing as little material as possible. Removing too much material will interfere with air flow and the functionality of the rotors. The output plate at the base of the M62 housing is what can be modified the most. This plate has one large triangular and two small oval passages in it. Right now, we'll focus on the large triangle. This is the passage that air is pushed through by the rotors to create a positive pressure in the lower intake manifold. This passage can be opened up slightly and smoothed out for best flow. Opening it up too much will also disrupt airflow. This is the most porting that should be performed on an Eaton M-Series blower to maintain efficiency.
Air Leakage Ports:
The two oval slots on the output plate are air leakage ports. Their only purpose is to decrease operational noise from the blower. Arnie, from Eaton Corp., explains their function like this, "When you stomp on the gas, the boost shoots up and the air flow goes supersonic. The air then slams back into the output plate and through the leakage slots, which reduces the hammering of the air into the housing causing less noise. The OEM can not have such loud NVH, thats why we put them in the housing. The 2 small ports are not there to feed air, only to reduce noise." Basically, for the best flow and most efficiency, these ports can be blocked off, making the outlet port (triangle slot) the only port on the outlet plate of the housing. Closing these ports will not increase IAT's; however, it will make the supercharger much louder when in boost. As an example, aftermarket supercharger companies, such as Harrop, Roush and Magnuson do not use these slots in their blowers. It should be re-stated, that you should consult professionals regarding closing these ports; and do not, for any reason, plug them with JB Weld. Improper closure could eventually lead to pieces coming apart and loose debris destroying the rotors and housing. Opening up these ports will only have a negative effect on efficiency. Do not port them.
Please take TVS_SS' comment into consideration while modifying your Eaton Supercharger. If you choose to close the leakage ports, do so knowing the risks and consult professionals like Magnuson, Harrop or Eaton before making final decisions.
Arnie, as mentioned earlier, is Eaton's Performance Products Training Instructor and has made himself and his team available for questions regarding their product and modifying it for best performance. Please visit http://www.eatonperformance.com and you will see an area "Ask the Experts." Any questions will be answered as best as possible as time permits (they receive 100's of questions a day).
Running a smaller pulley:
Reducing the size of the pulley increases both response time and maximum RPM of the supercharger. The stock pulley sets the M-62 blower at maximum efficiency and reducing pulley sizes does reduce efficiency. Porting the supercharger and using supporting heat-reduction modifications can help negate these negative effects of increasing boost by using the smaller pulley. While they do help reduce the negative effects of increased IAT's, these supporting modifications can only help so much. The increased IAT's produced by using any smaller than a 2.8" pulley will most likely not be able to be reversed by these supporting modifications. It is not recommended to run pulleys smaller than 2.8; however, all cooling modifications with methanol injection may make it possible to see benefits from a 2.7 pulley. 2.5 and 2.6 pulleys bring the supercharger way past its maximum RPM range and will significantly reduce the life of the supercharger. Keep that in mind.
Heat Reduction, Supporting Modifications:
The increased IAT's created by running smaller supercharger pulleys can be prevented by using several available heat reduction modifications. These modifications are the dual-pass endplate for the lower intake manifold, secondary heat exchanger, and methanol/alcohol injection. At the very least, increased cooling by running the dual-pass endplate and a secondary heat exchanger should be used when running pulleys smaller than stock. These cooling modifications will help reduce higher IAT's that may cause detonation and possible serious outcomes like blown engines. It is important to use an AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio) gauge when modifying the supercharger to make sure you maintain proper AFR and do not go too rich/lean. It is also highly recommended that you get a dyno tune after any modification to the engine to optimize performance and ensure safety. Information on any of these modifications can be found in the performance section here. Search first, if you can't find your answer, make a thread.
Comments and suggestions are welcome regarding this information. There's a lot here, but I'm sure I missed something that is important.
Both the M62 and M90 (most common on this site) are at their peak efficiency levels from the factory. Although running a smaller pulley is the easiest way to generate more power with these applications, it is also the easiest way to push the blower out of its efficiency range and produce gobs of heat. Heat, as you know, is the enemy of all F/I applications. Roots type superchargers, although extremely reliable, are the least efficient due to their drag on the engine by belt as well as their tendency to generate good amounts of heat in regards to the IAT (Intake Air Temperature). Eaton addressed some of these issues when they created their new line of TVS blowers; however, this thread is only concerned with the M-series blowers.
From Eaton.com:
"Eaton manufactures highly engineered, roots-type positive displacement superchargers. The Eaton supercharger increases torque across the entire operating range without compromising drivability or emissions. This allows vehicle manufacturers the option of using smaller, more economical 4- and 6-cylinder engines, without perceived loss in power train performance. Additionally, the supercharger incorporates a bypass system to reduce air handling losses when boost is not required, resulting in better fuel economy. Typical applications are on engines with displacements of 1.8L to 5.3L.
All aftermarket and service (rebuilds) are handled in the United States by Magnuson Products, (www.magnusonproducts.com) and in the Oceania-Asia-Pacific region by Harrop Engineering. (www.harrop.com)
The Eaton Supercharger - One Simple, Powerful Solution.
Eatons Air Management Systems Division designs, manufactures and markets modified Roots-type positive displacement pumps, also known as superchargers, for the original equipment and aftermarket industries."
When it comes to modification of these superchargers, the common areas of modification are:
Porting of the inlet portion of the housing
Porting of the internal housing
Porting of the outlet plate of the housing
Plugging of the "holes" on the outlet plate
Running a smaller pulley
Heat reduction, supporting modifications
The basic idea here is to increase CFM without raising IAT's. As most people on this site drive vehicles with the LSJ engine, M62 application, I will focus on that. These basic principles can be carried over to any other application using an M-Series blower. It should be noted, that the M-series superchargers are effectively air pumps. They do not internally compress the air themselves, but push it into the lower intake manifold. It is in the lower intake manifold that positive pressure emerges. Most folks think Eaton's roots-type units are actually squeezing the air like a screw unit. This is not the truth. No air passes between the rotors, the air is guided by the rotors along the sides of the housing; hence, no internal compression of air.
Porting the M-Series Supercharger:
It is not a good idea to remove too much material from any portion of the blower. Extreme porting of the blower will disrupt the air and will reduce efficiency greatly. A light porting of the inlet housing will help increase intake CFM of the pump. Typically, if a TB (throttle-body) upgrade is available, it helps to match the TB port size to the inlet port for a smooth intake of air with minimal disruption. Smoothing this opening up and enlarging it slightly will help introduce more air into the rotor housing which can then be "pushed" into the lower intake manifold. The inside of the housing can also be lightly ported to increase internal surface area. It is important to note, that internal porting of the rotor housing should be very minimal. Basically, remove any and all casting flashes and ensure complete symmetry while removing as little material as possible. Removing too much material will interfere with air flow and the functionality of the rotors. The output plate at the base of the M62 housing is what can be modified the most. This plate has one large triangular and two small oval passages in it. Right now, we'll focus on the large triangle. This is the passage that air is pushed through by the rotors to create a positive pressure in the lower intake manifold. This passage can be opened up slightly and smoothed out for best flow. Opening it up too much will also disrupt airflow. This is the most porting that should be performed on an Eaton M-Series blower to maintain efficiency.
Air Leakage Ports:
The two oval slots on the output plate are air leakage ports. Their only purpose is to decrease operational noise from the blower. Arnie, from Eaton Corp., explains their function like this, "When you stomp on the gas, the boost shoots up and the air flow goes supersonic. The air then slams back into the output plate and through the leakage slots, which reduces the hammering of the air into the housing causing less noise. The OEM can not have such loud NVH, thats why we put them in the housing. The 2 small ports are not there to feed air, only to reduce noise." Basically, for the best flow and most efficiency, these ports can be blocked off, making the outlet port (triangle slot) the only port on the outlet plate of the housing. Closing these ports will not increase IAT's; however, it will make the supercharger much louder when in boost. As an example, aftermarket supercharger companies, such as Harrop, Roush and Magnuson do not use these slots in their blowers. It should be re-stated, that you should consult professionals regarding closing these ports; and do not, for any reason, plug them with JB Weld. Improper closure could eventually lead to pieces coming apart and loose debris destroying the rotors and housing. Opening up these ports will only have a negative effect on efficiency. Do not port them.
Please take TVS_SS' comment into consideration while modifying your Eaton Supercharger. If you choose to close the leakage ports, do so knowing the risks and consult professionals like Magnuson, Harrop or Eaton before making final decisions.
Arnie, as mentioned earlier, is Eaton's Performance Products Training Instructor and has made himself and his team available for questions regarding their product and modifying it for best performance. Please visit http://www.eatonperformance.com and you will see an area "Ask the Experts." Any questions will be answered as best as possible as time permits (they receive 100's of questions a day).
Running a smaller pulley:
Reducing the size of the pulley increases both response time and maximum RPM of the supercharger. The stock pulley sets the M-62 blower at maximum efficiency and reducing pulley sizes does reduce efficiency. Porting the supercharger and using supporting heat-reduction modifications can help negate these negative effects of increasing boost by using the smaller pulley. While they do help reduce the negative effects of increased IAT's, these supporting modifications can only help so much. The increased IAT's produced by using any smaller than a 2.8" pulley will most likely not be able to be reversed by these supporting modifications. It is not recommended to run pulleys smaller than 2.8; however, all cooling modifications with methanol injection may make it possible to see benefits from a 2.7 pulley. 2.5 and 2.6 pulleys bring the supercharger way past its maximum RPM range and will significantly reduce the life of the supercharger. Keep that in mind.
Heat Reduction, Supporting Modifications:
The increased IAT's created by running smaller supercharger pulleys can be prevented by using several available heat reduction modifications. These modifications are the dual-pass endplate for the lower intake manifold, secondary heat exchanger, and methanol/alcohol injection. At the very least, increased cooling by running the dual-pass endplate and a secondary heat exchanger should be used when running pulleys smaller than stock. These cooling modifications will help reduce higher IAT's that may cause detonation and possible serious outcomes like blown engines. It is important to use an AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio) gauge when modifying the supercharger to make sure you maintain proper AFR and do not go too rich/lean. It is also highly recommended that you get a dyno tune after any modification to the engine to optimize performance and ensure safety. Information on any of these modifications can be found in the performance section here. Search first, if you can't find your answer, make a thread.
Comments and suggestions are welcome regarding this information. There's a lot here, but I'm sure I missed something that is important.
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Joined: 07-16-08
Posts: 5,610
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From: Boynton Beach, Fl
NOTE!!!
DO NOT WELD THE HOLES SHUT!!
while it is beneficial to have these holes closed, by welding you will distort the rotor bores and change the heat treat on the aluminum.
do not WELD on a finish machined housing anywhere near the rotor bores!!!!!
you will end up with rotor contact issues or large gaps.. these are precision machined bores.. it would be like welding on your cylinder bores.. NOT A GOOD IDEA!
DO NOT WELD THE HOLES SHUT!!
while it is beneficial to have these holes closed, by welding you will distort the rotor bores and change the heat treat on the aluminum.
do not WELD on a finish machined housing anywhere near the rotor bores!!!!!
you will end up with rotor contact issues or large gaps.. these are precision machined bores.. it would be like welding on your cylinder bores.. NOT A GOOD IDEA!
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From: Upstate NY
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From: Columbus, Ohio
thank you anyway
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From: Vine Grove Kentucky
I cut the holes making them into the v shaped port for the supercharger. making the hole a whole lot bigger, and making it push more cfm. When teating the stock supercharger with a drill, it pushed a good amout of air with the holes not cut into the stock hole for the supercharger. When i cuth the holes open and made them into the outlet for the supercharger and cleaned the inside of the sueprcharger and polished it, it pushed way more air at the same amout of speed given by the drill.
I have not had a issue yet..
I did not know if it could be donte. So i did it. lol. and it works great.
james
I have not had a issue yet..
I did not know if it could be donte. So i did it. lol. and it works great.
james
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From: Vine Grove Kentucky
Instead of it looking like a narrow a$$ v It is more wide like a pyramid......
So what is your guy'z number to the wheels, because when i get mine dynoed, i want to see what i need to do to either get mine where your alls is at you to prove to myself that what i did to the supercharger actually worked..
So what is your guy'z number to the wheels, because when i get mine dynoed, i want to see what i need to do to either get mine where your alls is at you to prove to myself that what i did to the supercharger actually worked..
Last edited by Chevycobaltss3; Oct 9, 2009 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I cut the holes making them into the v shaped port for the supercharger. making the hole a whole lot bigger, and making it push more cfm. When teating the stock supercharger with a drill, it pushed a good amout of air with the holes not cut into the stock hole for the supercharger. When i cuth the holes open and made them into the outlet for the supercharger and cleaned the inside of the sueprcharger and polished it, it pushed way more air at the same amout of speed given by the drill.
I have not had a issue yet..
I did not know if it could be donte. So i did it. lol. and it works great.
james
I have not had a issue yet..
I did not know if it could be donte. So i did it. lol. and it works great.
james
interesting.... Eaton said not to port exit only the inlet otherwise it bring the blower out of efficinecy and will make you lose power rather than give. the point of the supercharger is to compress the air and force it into the intake. When you ported out your supercharger the way you did I would imagine you brought the supercharger way out of efficiency, with a bigger exit flange the air isn't compressed as much and doesn't give you as much pressure (PSI or BOOST). I ported my throttle body and supercharger inlet, have a 2.8 pulley and a full 3" exhaust and am boosting 17.9 PSI and I believe I may hav a vac leak somewhere cuz I have a whistle when I begin boost and while I boost. It's wierd nobody I've talked to has ever heard anything like it before, sounds almost like a turbo.