Black Box
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From: Norwalk
Black Box
Hi, I'm new to this site and the Cobalt SC. My girlfriend just bought a 06 SS/SC and she was saying something about her car having some type of black box that can record how high you've had the revs and all that crap (so the dealer told her). I told her that it would be impossible to record that much data and store it without having a computer the size of the car itself. Please confirm my rightness. Thanks ladies & germs
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From: Norwalk
Originally Posted by sshaner
all i can say is i hope she is wrong lol
Me too...First time I drove it I lauched at 5500 and roasted them off threw 2nd gear rev limiter. I'm used to the awd grip of a DSM
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From: Cleveland, Ohio
black boxes are used in cars to recordpretty much all your actions, and if you wreck bad enogh to where no one survives, or you cause some real damage they go to they black box to check how fast you were going, and stuff like that, planes and trains have them too, i think they are about the size of two fists put together, but there are harddrives the size of quarters that hold 80 gigs of info. so the size does not matter in this case
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From: Chandler, AZ
I don't know if it records any permanent data, but it will record velocity, and whether you were on the gas or the brakes in the moments before a crash. Not sure what else has been added to those things, though.
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From: Charlotte, NC
the PCM/VCM records the last 3 ignition cycles (cycles avg 30-60 mins of driving) so just not 3 on/ off with the key, this is how they found an old check engine light from 48 hours ago this morning. i drove the car 150 miles and more than 25 key cycles. they saw where i dyno'd the car monday morning.
Originally Posted by No Mo STi
Hi, I'm new to this site and the Cobalt SC. My girlfriend just bought a 06 SS/SC and she was saying something about her car having some type of black box that can record how high you've had the revs and all that crap (so the dealer told her). I told her that it would be impossible to record that much data and store it without having a computer the size of the car itself. Please confirm my rightness. Thanks ladies & germs
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From: Hubert NC
Originally Posted by HunterKiller89
you realize an ipod can hold some 60 gigs, and a 20 page text document is about 20k or 1/3,000,000 of those 60G? it wouldnt be a HD issue to store your entire driving routine for over 100,000 miles
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From: Arizona
Originally Posted by StinkBOMB
Do they see you screwing around with the PCM via HP tuners?
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From: Hubert NC
Originally Posted by srt-killer
Yes they can, i don't see why not. When i took my car in they said there computer picked up my new pcm. And intense claims that its not detectable.
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From: No where man
Originally Posted by No Mo STi
but has anyone heard of there being any type of black box on the Cobalt?
Your Cobalt IS equipped with an "Event Data Recorder" which is actually imbedded hardware within your Airbag Control Module (or in GMs case Sensing Diagnostic Module- SDM)
It is designed to capture details relating to driver input, engine function, and chassis dynamics for approximately 5 seconds prior to an airbag deployment. So in general unless there is an airbag deployment- there is no data. ALL GM cars since the mid 90's have used an EDR to varying degrees of recorded content. Newer cars like the Cobalt record more details than older harware. Details such as throttle, RPM, vehicle speed, and brake apply are very useful when reconstructing a serious accident where the airbags deployed.The EDR doesnt record audio, like a cockpit voice recorder does. There's a section in your owners manual describing the use of EDRs.(see quote from the 2005 Cobalt Owners Manual Below)
GM is NOT the only OEM using EDRs in fact it's generally accepted that all "modern" Airbag Control Modules have some sort of EDR to varying degrees of capaility. In fact NHTSA is generating legislation requesting ALL vehicle manufacturers include EDRs in their vehicles.
In general a dealership cannot access this information as it requires hardware/software/training that they dont possess, however most law enforcment agencies and accident reconstruction engineering firms do.
It's imprtant to point out that there is varying laws from state to state and in Canada that limits the unauthorized access to the event data recorder. In general the titled owner of the vehicle is the "owner" of the event file, and unless express written permission is provided- it wont be admissable in a court of law if obtained with out this permission. However if the data is considered evidence in a criminal investigation, it can be legally downloaded with a "seach warrant" or other legal writ of seizure.
For more info on EDRs you can refer to:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/edr-site/
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site...e=PressRelease
HTH
Regards
WopOnTour
Originally Posted by Direct Quote from 2005 Cobalt Owners Manual
Vehicle Data Collection and Event Data Recorders
Your vehicle, like other modern motor vehicles, has a number of sophisticated computer systems that monitor and control several aspects of the vehicle's performance. Your vehicle uses on-board vehicle computers to monitor emission control components to optimize fuel economy, to monitor conditions for airbag deployment and, if the vehicle has the Anti-lock Brake System (ABS), to provide anti-lock braking and to help the driver control the vehicle in difficult driving situations. Some information may be stored during regular operations to facilitate repair of detected malfunctions; other information is stored only in a crash event by computer systems, such as those commonly called Event Data Recorders (EDR).
In a crash event, computer systems, such as the airbag Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM) in your vehicle may record information about the condition of the vehicle and how it was operated, such as data related to engine speed, brake application, throttle position, vehicle speed, safety belt usage, airbag readiness, airbag performance, and the severity of a collision. This information has been used to improve vehicle crash performance and may be used to improve crash performance of future vehicles and driving safety. Unlike the data recorders on many airplanes, these on-board systems do not record sounds, such as conversation of vehicle occupants.
To read this information, special equipment is needed and access to the vehicle or the device that stores the data is required. GM will not access information about a crash event or share it with others other than:
• with the consent of the vehicle owner or, if the vehicle is leased, with the consent of the lessee,
• in response to an official request of police or similar government office,
• as part of GM's defense of litigation through the discovery process, or
• as required by law.
In addition, once GM collects or receives data, GM may:
• use the data for GM research needs,
• make it available for research where appropriate confidentiality is to be maintained and need is shown, or
• share summary data which is not tied to a specific vehicle with non-GM organizations for research purposes.
Others, such as law enforcement, may have access to the special equipment that can read the information if they have access to the vehicle or the device that stores the data.
If your vehicle has OnStarŽ, please check the OnStarŽ subscription service agreement or owner manual for information on its operations and data collection.
Your vehicle, like other modern motor vehicles, has a number of sophisticated computer systems that monitor and control several aspects of the vehicle's performance. Your vehicle uses on-board vehicle computers to monitor emission control components to optimize fuel economy, to monitor conditions for airbag deployment and, if the vehicle has the Anti-lock Brake System (ABS), to provide anti-lock braking and to help the driver control the vehicle in difficult driving situations. Some information may be stored during regular operations to facilitate repair of detected malfunctions; other information is stored only in a crash event by computer systems, such as those commonly called Event Data Recorders (EDR).
In a crash event, computer systems, such as the airbag Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM) in your vehicle may record information about the condition of the vehicle and how it was operated, such as data related to engine speed, brake application, throttle position, vehicle speed, safety belt usage, airbag readiness, airbag performance, and the severity of a collision. This information has been used to improve vehicle crash performance and may be used to improve crash performance of future vehicles and driving safety. Unlike the data recorders on many airplanes, these on-board systems do not record sounds, such as conversation of vehicle occupants.
To read this information, special equipment is needed and access to the vehicle or the device that stores the data is required. GM will not access information about a crash event or share it with others other than:
• with the consent of the vehicle owner or, if the vehicle is leased, with the consent of the lessee,
• in response to an official request of police or similar government office,
• as part of GM's defense of litigation through the discovery process, or
• as required by law.
In addition, once GM collects or receives data, GM may:
• use the data for GM research needs,
• make it available for research where appropriate confidentiality is to be maintained and need is shown, or
• share summary data which is not tied to a specific vehicle with non-GM organizations for research purposes.
Others, such as law enforcement, may have access to the special equipment that can read the information if they have access to the vehicle or the device that stores the data.
If your vehicle has OnStarŽ, please check the OnStarŽ subscription service agreement or owner manual for information on its operations and data collection.
Last edited by WopOnTour; Aug 21, 2006 at 01:05 PM.
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From: No where man
Originally Posted by StinkBOMB
Do they see you screwing around with the PCM via HP tuners?
Originally Posted by srt-killer
Yes they can, i don't see why not. When i took my car in they said there computer picked up my new pcm. And intense claims that its not detectable.
The dealership has NOTHING that would be able to detect changes to your PCM calibration via HP Tuners.
Even if they suspected something they would have to send it into GM Engineering in order to analyse for non-factory edits or changes to the software.
All of your calibration file ID#s and checksums remain totally unchanged. The only thing MIGHT have been is the wrong VIN burned into your PCM, which can accidentally occur when using the "Write Entire" feature in HPT using a file from another car. But they wouldnt be able to determine if this was done by you, Intense, or a screw up at another dealership (not all that uncommon to "swap" parts from another car during diagnosis)
AFAIK when you send your PCM to Intense, you get YOUR PCM back so the VIN, Passlock/Passkey, and learned CASE values would remain unchanged.
Wop
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From: No where man
Originally Posted by vizkiz
The car's computer can record potentially serious warranty-voiding damage, such as overrevving the engine. Not sure what else.
Wop
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From: No where man
Originally Posted by kanabrewski
the PCM/VCM records the last 3 ignition cycles (cycles avg 30-60 mins of driving) so just not 3 on/ off with the key, this is how they found an old check engine light from 48 hours ago this morning. i drove the car 150 miles and more than 25 key cycles. they saw where i dyno'd the car monday morning.
HTH
Wop
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Joined: 07-18-06
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From: Florida
Like someone said earlier. If there is a bad accident, they can view the last few things that went on in your car. These include speed, rpms, etc. This is what someone told me a while ago that was going to be placed in newer cars. Don't know how legit it is though. Supposedly it only records a short period of time though.
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Joined: 10-28-05
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From: Upstate NY
As people in this thread have already said, there are 2 data recorders. One is in the airbag stuff, which records something like 5 seconds of data before an airbag deployment. The other is snapshots in the pcm when a code is triggered. These snapshots tell the dealership vital information to see what RPM the engine is at and I would imagine a bunch of other stuff to help them diagnose the problem. I've heard of a warranty not covering engine damage because the snapshot that happened after a code was thrown (after the engine swallowed a valve) revealed user abuse when they looked at it.
Which brings me to another point. If you get one of these tunes which raises the redline while still under warranty, then proceed to blow your motor up at 7000 RPM, the dealership will 1. be able to see your tune since the snapshot says rpm, and 2. tell you to screw off and warranty won't be paying for it. Of course, they wouldn't have any data if it didn't set a trouble code, but it probably would....
Which brings me to another point. If you get one of these tunes which raises the redline while still under warranty, then proceed to blow your motor up at 7000 RPM, the dealership will 1. be able to see your tune since the snapshot says rpm, and 2. tell you to screw off and warranty won't be paying for it. Of course, they wouldn't have any data if it didn't set a trouble code, but it probably would....
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From: Ottawa
They cant just use the black box to solve a crime. If you go to court they need other reasonable doupt of how the accident happened. Yes, the black box can tell dealerships on how high you have reved in each individual gear. Police will use the black box to help them figure out what happened. The black box will automatically store information such as seatbealt, steering, braking and speed prior to the accident. I forget how much information it logs and in how much time.
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From: No where man
Originally Posted by Forseti
WopOnTour, where did you get an electronic version of the owners manual...? Can you post it somewhere?
AFAIK there is no publically available web-site with the owners manual info, although there is an HTML version available "inside" the GM dealership firewalls as part of their Service Information system. It's not in PDF format or anything so not something easy to post.
Sorry, cant be of much help
WOT