Breaking Point, need advise
06-07-2013, 11:43 PM
#76
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A phone call to GM customer care usually fixes that. Dealers will try anything to get out of warranty work since they really dont see anything out of it, but for me personally if a dealer where to actually take care of me for warranty work I would consider going there for some of the more specialized services (not taking it to a dealer for an oil change).
06-08-2013, 06:10 AM
#77
Senior Member
yea i wouldnt imagine him lawyering up however if he mentions the BBB i bet their ass cheeks start to pucker up. the dealerships always want a good rating by the BBB.....and something like this will give them a bad grade for sure. i think he has given the GM customer service long enough, its been what? about a week now? no excuse for this.
06-08-2013, 11:22 AM
#78
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yea i wouldnt imagine him lawyering up however if he mentions the BBB i bet their ass cheeks start to pucker up. the dealerships always want a good rating by the BBB.....and something like this will give them a bad grade for sure. i think he has given the GM customer service long enough, its been what? about a week now? no excuse for this.
06-08-2013, 12:13 PM
#79
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I'm sorry its been a headace though.
06-08-2013, 12:19 PM
#80
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06-08-2013, 01:17 PM
#82
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06-08-2013, 03:14 PM
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06-10-2013, 05:21 PM
#85
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Sarah is still here but Crystal is no longer in this department.. My name is Jackie and I am the main contact for the Cobalt forum. I am working diligently to get any issues resolved. If you feel that you have been overlooked please send me a direct message and I will get to work assisting you today. I apologize for any delays in communication.
Jackie
Chevrolet Customer Care
Jackie
Chevrolet Customer Care
06-11-2013, 08:03 PM
#86
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Originally Posted by Chevrolet Cust Svc
I have been doing research and on the phone with your dealer several times to help you get a resolution. i apologize for the delay in communication. I have been able to confirm that GM has determined that the premature steering column wear is due to the aftermarket suspension that you have installed on the vehicle.
The Vehicle Warranty does NOT cover any damage or failure resulting from modification, alteration or suspected tampering, to the vehicle's original equipment as manufactured or assembled by General Motors.
Any changes to the GM Powertrain, Fuel, or Emission Systems that involve modifications, conversions, or the addition of non-GM approved products can void the GM Powertrain Limited. GM is not responsible for costs associated with the repair of these vehicles due to failure of the aftermarket installed components or failures of related vehicle systems induced by these non-GM approved products.
I apologize that I was not able to get a better resolution for you. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. For future reference your file number is 71-1192122858.
The Vehicle Warranty does NOT cover any damage or failure resulting from modification, alteration or suspected tampering, to the vehicle's original equipment as manufactured or assembled by General Motors.
Any changes to the GM Powertrain, Fuel, or Emission Systems that involve modifications, conversions, or the addition of non-GM approved products can void the GM Powertrain Limited. GM is not responsible for costs associated with the repair of these vehicles due to failure of the aftermarket installed components or failures of related vehicle systems induced by these non-GM approved products.
I apologize that I was not able to get a better resolution for you. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. For future reference your file number is 71-1192122858.
06-11-2013, 09:17 PM
#87
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Would like to see some "determinations" to that with proven facts and/or research. Just because GM's awful customer service doesn't want to cash out more money for their cheap faulty equipment doesn't mean not replacing it could be justified with an irrelevant component. As far as I'm concerned, United States federal law, (15 U.S.C. § 2301) is still well in effect. At this point I'm going to demand for this issue to be resolved. If it isn't then BBB, GM Officials, Lemon Law and any other agency that exist will be contacted and complaint will be filed. I don't care what you do to resolve this issue but it needs to be gone. I will go out of my way to escalate this issue as high as possible for awful service and non sense I've been getting before I cash out $100 for the RockAuto replacement column. Oh yes, you can also mention that it's should be pretty embarrassing that someone else needed to make a replacement column to fix GM's crap parts.
06-12-2013, 06:05 AM
#88
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First of all, nothing in my message was personal against the person. It was a general statement towards GM with it's amazing quality customer service. It's also pretty clear from her last message that nothing will even be attempted to be resolved because of an unrelated mod. Surprised they didn't blame my painted brembos for the cause of this issue.
The day I receive some concrete evidence backing up this idiotic theory, that's nothing but someone's uneducated nonsense assumption, is the day I will go out and purchase the $100 replacement that was made by a 3rd party company in order to resolve GM's faulty engineering issue.
I once again will state that I as well have a 2005 Cobalt LS with Koni yellow struts/shocks and sportline springs which are more aggressive than my current Pedder springs AND this same exact dealership has warrantied the column on it 3 times with those suspension components in place, finally resolving the issue that hasn't returned in at least 60k. Vehicle now has 130k miles and no steering column issues.
Next question is, if suspension components weren't an issue with my '05 vehicle then why are they all of the sudden an issue with my '10 vehicle? Further proves the awful unfair service provided by GM. If we let them get away with stuff like this, service will never improve and people will keep getting screwed. What's next? Transmission failure that won't be warrantied due to an aftermarket shifter knob?
Originally Posted by Chevrolet Cust Svc
I understand that you are not satisfied with this resolution. This is however the answer that GM has to stand by. I did everything that I could to try and get you a better outcome but due to the aftermarket part there is not much that I could do. We do not warranty work for damage caused by aftermarket parts.
Jackie
Chevrolet Customer Care
Jackie
Chevrolet Customer Care
I once again will state that I as well have a 2005 Cobalt LS with Koni yellow struts/shocks and sportline springs which are more aggressive than my current Pedder springs AND this same exact dealership has warrantied the column on it 3 times with those suspension components in place, finally resolving the issue that hasn't returned in at least 60k. Vehicle now has 130k miles and no steering column issues.
Next question is, if suspension components weren't an issue with my '05 vehicle then why are they all of the sudden an issue with my '10 vehicle? Further proves the awful unfair service provided by GM. If we let them get away with stuff like this, service will never improve and people will keep getting screwed. What's next? Transmission failure that won't be warrantied due to an aftermarket shifter knob?
Last edited by Aleksey; 06-12-2013 at 06:30 AM.
06-12-2013, 06:48 AM
#89
Senior Member
First of all, nothing in my message was personal against the person. It was a general statement towards GM with it's amazing quality customer service. It's also pretty clear from her last message that nothing will even be attempted to be resolved because of an unrelated mod. Surprised they didn't blame my painted brembos for the cause of this issue.
The day I receive some concrete evidence backing up this idiotic theory, that's nothing but someone's uneducated nonsense assumption, is the day I will go out and purchase the $100 replacement that was made by a 3rd party company in order to resolve GM's faulty engineering issue.
I once again will state that I as well have a 2005 Cobalt LS with Koni yellow struts/shocks and sportline springs which are more aggressive than my current Pedder springs AND this same exact dealership has warrantied the column on it 3 times with those suspension components in place, finally resolving the issue that hasn't returned in at least 60k. Vehicle now has 130k miles and no steering column issues.
Next question is, if suspension components weren't an issue with my '05 vehicle then why are they all of the sudden an issue with my '10 vehicle? Further proves the awful unfair service provided by GM. If we let them get away with stuff like this, service will never improve and people will keep getting screwed. What's next? Transmission failure that won't be warrantied due to an aftermarket shifter knob?
The day I receive some concrete evidence backing up this idiotic theory, that's nothing but someone's uneducated nonsense assumption, is the day I will go out and purchase the $100 replacement that was made by a 3rd party company in order to resolve GM's faulty engineering issue.
I once again will state that I as well have a 2005 Cobalt LS with Koni yellow struts/shocks and sportline springs which are more aggressive than my current Pedder springs AND this same exact dealership has warrantied the column on it 3 times with those suspension components in place, finally resolving the issue that hasn't returned in at least 60k. Vehicle now has 130k miles and no steering column issues.
Next question is, if suspension components weren't an issue with my '05 vehicle then why are they all of the sudden an issue with my '10 vehicle? Further proves the awful unfair service provided by GM. If we let them get away with stuff like this, service will never improve and people will keep getting screwed. What's next? Transmission failure that won't be warrantied due to an aftermarket shifter knob?
probably.....
06-12-2013, 07:13 AM
#90
I have watched this thread develop and frankly just shake my head.
Power steering components, particularly the motor are made by a supplier that also supplies Toyota with a similar part. Rock auto sells parts from different suppliers and vendors, it is most likely they orginate from the same vendor; if they do not, they may come from China. China makes lots of parts for cars; I am told locally that about 60% of the Camaro is built here with parts from China. Quality control is the biggest issue with Chinese parts.
In terms of GM's response to you the following is clear: Pedders have less rate than stock, are made from inferior spring material compared to OEM springs, and when they collapse and lose height they further lose rate and will bind the coils completely ( when they touch in testing upon compression, that is referred to "solid load") when they bind dynamically in the car, the spring rate increases to infinity, and damage to the car ( steering conponents etc) may result.
Its not the first time that GM has refused warranty due to use of aftermarket springs. And it is certainly their right to do so. It is correct technically to look to spring collapse as a root cause of some issues, and it is correct legally as the terms of the warranty are clear.
From time to time, companies lose track of customer complaints. In this case, GM apologized for the time it took, on this public forum no less, and reviewed your complaint. You asked the question, and they finally gave you an answer.
That you dont like the answer is a given.But you did ask the question. Threats,rudeness, etc will get you nowhere, and as the basis for GM refusing warranty is this case is (in my opinion and theirs) is well founded, this much is clear.
You wont get anywhere anytime soon with GM and you will get nothing for nothing.Warranty is declined.
Please sell the car, buy something else, and fill the appropriate forums for your new car with your point of view. Good luck.
Power steering components, particularly the motor are made by a supplier that also supplies Toyota with a similar part. Rock auto sells parts from different suppliers and vendors, it is most likely they orginate from the same vendor; if they do not, they may come from China. China makes lots of parts for cars; I am told locally that about 60% of the Camaro is built here with parts from China. Quality control is the biggest issue with Chinese parts.
In terms of GM's response to you the following is clear: Pedders have less rate than stock, are made from inferior spring material compared to OEM springs, and when they collapse and lose height they further lose rate and will bind the coils completely ( when they touch in testing upon compression, that is referred to "solid load") when they bind dynamically in the car, the spring rate increases to infinity, and damage to the car ( steering conponents etc) may result.
Its not the first time that GM has refused warranty due to use of aftermarket springs. And it is certainly their right to do so. It is correct technically to look to spring collapse as a root cause of some issues, and it is correct legally as the terms of the warranty are clear.
From time to time, companies lose track of customer complaints. In this case, GM apologized for the time it took, on this public forum no less, and reviewed your complaint. You asked the question, and they finally gave you an answer.
That you dont like the answer is a given.But you did ask the question. Threats,rudeness, etc will get you nowhere, and as the basis for GM refusing warranty is this case is (in my opinion and theirs) is well founded, this much is clear.
You wont get anywhere anytime soon with GM and you will get nothing for nothing.Warranty is declined.
Please sell the car, buy something else, and fill the appropriate forums for your new car with your point of view. Good luck.
06-12-2013, 07:20 AM
#91
Senior Member
I have watched this thread develop and frankly just shake my head.
Power steering components, particularly the motor are made by a supplier that also supplies Toyota with a similar part. Rock auto sells parts from different suppliers and vendors, it is most likely they orginate from the same vendor; if they do not, they may come from China. China makes lots of parts for cars; I am told locally that about 60% of the Camaro is built here with parts from China. Quality control is the biggest issue with Chinese parts.
In terms of GM's response to you the following is clear: Pedders have less rate than stock, are made from inferior spring material compared to OEM springs, and when they collapse and lose height they further lose rate and will bind the coils completely ( when they touch in testing upon compression, that is referred to "solid load") when they bind dynamically in the car, the spring rate increases to infinity, and damage to the car ( steering conponents etc) may result.
Its not the first time that GM has refused warranty due to use of aftermarket springs. And it is certainly their right to do so. It is correct technically to look to spring collapse as a root cause of some issues, and it is correct legally as the terms of the warranty are clear.
From time to time, companies lose track of customer complaints. In this case, GM apologized for the time it took, on this public forum no less, and reviewed your complaint. You asked the question, and they finally gave you an answer.
That you dont like the answer is a given.But you did ask the question. Threats,rudeness, etc will get you nowhere, and as the basis for GM refusing warranty is this case is (in my opinion and theirs) is well founded, this much is clear.
You wont get anywhere anytime soon with GM and you will get nothing for nothing.Warranty is declined.
Please sell the car, buy something else, and fill the appropriate forums for your new car with your point of view. Good luck.
Power steering components, particularly the motor are made by a supplier that also supplies Toyota with a similar part. Rock auto sells parts from different suppliers and vendors, it is most likely they orginate from the same vendor; if they do not, they may come from China. China makes lots of parts for cars; I am told locally that about 60% of the Camaro is built here with parts from China. Quality control is the biggest issue with Chinese parts.
In terms of GM's response to you the following is clear: Pedders have less rate than stock, are made from inferior spring material compared to OEM springs, and when they collapse and lose height they further lose rate and will bind the coils completely ( when they touch in testing upon compression, that is referred to "solid load") when they bind dynamically in the car, the spring rate increases to infinity, and damage to the car ( steering conponents etc) may result.
Its not the first time that GM has refused warranty due to use of aftermarket springs. And it is certainly their right to do so. It is correct technically to look to spring collapse as a root cause of some issues, and it is correct legally as the terms of the warranty are clear.
From time to time, companies lose track of customer complaints. In this case, GM apologized for the time it took, on this public forum no less, and reviewed your complaint. You asked the question, and they finally gave you an answer.
That you dont like the answer is a given.But you did ask the question. Threats,rudeness, etc will get you nowhere, and as the basis for GM refusing warranty is this case is (in my opinion and theirs) is well founded, this much is clear.
You wont get anywhere anytime soon with GM and you will get nothing for nothing.Warranty is declined.
Please sell the car, buy something else, and fill the appropriate forums for your new car with your point of view. Good luck.
06-12-2013, 08:40 AM
#92
Powell is right. Messing 1 component in an assembly can cause issues to turn up in other areas of the car. Throwing big wheels and low profile tires on a car can mess up all kinds of stuff from bushings to subframes for example.
That said we would all probably be upset with the end result. Also don't expect to get different results from any other company.
That said we would all probably be upset with the end result. Also don't expect to get different results from any other company.
06-12-2013, 09:20 AM
#93
Senior Member
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I have watched this thread develop and frankly just shake my head.
Power steering components, particularly the motor are made by a supplier that also supplies Toyota with a similar part. Rock auto sells parts from different suppliers and vendors, it is most likely they orginate from the same vendor; if they do not, they may come from China. China makes lots of parts for cars; I am told locally that about 60% of the Camaro is built here with parts from China. Quality control is the biggest issue with Chinese parts.
In terms of GM's response to you the following is clear: Pedders have less rate than stock, are made from inferior spring material compared to OEM springs, and when they collapse and lose height they further lose rate and will bind the coils completely ( when they touch in testing upon compression, that is referred to "solid load") when they bind dynamically in the car, the spring rate increases to infinity, and damage to the car ( steering conponents etc) may result.
Its not the first time that GM has refused warranty due to use of aftermarket springs. And it is certainly their right to do so. It is correct technically to look to spring collapse as a root cause of some issues, and it is correct legally as the terms of the warranty are clear.
From time to time, companies lose track of customer complaints. In this case, GM apologized for the time it took, on this public forum no less, and reviewed your complaint. You asked the question, and they finally gave you an answer.
That you dont like the answer is a given.But you did ask the question. Threats,rudeness, etc will get you nowhere, and as the basis for GM refusing warranty is this case is (in my opinion and theirs) is well founded, this much is clear.
You wont get anywhere anytime soon with GM and you will get nothing for nothing.Warranty is declined.
Please sell the car, buy something else, and fill the appropriate forums for your new car with your point of view. Good luck.
Power steering components, particularly the motor are made by a supplier that also supplies Toyota with a similar part. Rock auto sells parts from different suppliers and vendors, it is most likely they orginate from the same vendor; if they do not, they may come from China. China makes lots of parts for cars; I am told locally that about 60% of the Camaro is built here with parts from China. Quality control is the biggest issue with Chinese parts.
In terms of GM's response to you the following is clear: Pedders have less rate than stock, are made from inferior spring material compared to OEM springs, and when they collapse and lose height they further lose rate and will bind the coils completely ( when they touch in testing upon compression, that is referred to "solid load") when they bind dynamically in the car, the spring rate increases to infinity, and damage to the car ( steering conponents etc) may result.
Its not the first time that GM has refused warranty due to use of aftermarket springs. And it is certainly their right to do so. It is correct technically to look to spring collapse as a root cause of some issues, and it is correct legally as the terms of the warranty are clear.
From time to time, companies lose track of customer complaints. In this case, GM apologized for the time it took, on this public forum no less, and reviewed your complaint. You asked the question, and they finally gave you an answer.
That you dont like the answer is a given.But you did ask the question. Threats,rudeness, etc will get you nowhere, and as the basis for GM refusing warranty is this case is (in my opinion and theirs) is well founded, this much is clear.
You wont get anywhere anytime soon with GM and you will get nothing for nothing.Warranty is declined.
Please sell the car, buy something else, and fill the appropriate forums for your new car with your point of view. Good luck.
06-12-2013, 11:59 AM
#94
Its unfortunate that they will not warranty the column for you... especially since it is a known issue. I work with dealers across the USA every single day for 8 hours handling similar issues. It truely is up to the dealer if they want to be generous or not and look over certain things like this to help you warranty the part in question. Unfortunately.... if the service department is actually doing their job like GM would want them to... they thoroughly inspect the vehicle to make sure nothing outside of their own parts caused the failure... and in this case... due to modifying the springs... they can point their finger there.... harsher ride = more strain on steering components and premature wear/failure.
Now... i will say.... the 3 columns they replaced in the past on your other balt with aftermarket suspension.... you should feel pretty lucky in all honesty... because they could have denied all of those claims as well.
Could this dealer look to the side on this claim and warranty the repair and submit this claim to GM... WITHOUT telling them you had aftermarket springs? Sure. Will they??? Doesnt sound like it.
This is the MAIN reason that i would never mod a car until its completely out of factory warranty.... and i tell people this all the time. If you choose to anyways.... its the risk you take that the dealer wont cover related repairs if something breaks.
I know its not what you want to hear... but im playing devil's advocate here... and have experience with claims like this on a daily basis. I hope it works out for you so you can enjoy your cobalt again... whether you replace the part yourself... or the dealer covers it...
Now... i will say.... the 3 columns they replaced in the past on your other balt with aftermarket suspension.... you should feel pretty lucky in all honesty... because they could have denied all of those claims as well.
Could this dealer look to the side on this claim and warranty the repair and submit this claim to GM... WITHOUT telling them you had aftermarket springs? Sure. Will they??? Doesnt sound like it.
This is the MAIN reason that i would never mod a car until its completely out of factory warranty.... and i tell people this all the time. If you choose to anyways.... its the risk you take that the dealer wont cover related repairs if something breaks.
I know its not what you want to hear... but im playing devil's advocate here... and have experience with claims like this on a daily basis. I hope it works out for you so you can enjoy your cobalt again... whether you replace the part yourself... or the dealer covers it...
06-13-2013, 01:33 AM
#95
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If they fixed the first car, they should fix the other. It shouldn't pick and choose based on how they feel that day. Just like in the justice system, there are things called precedents. If a judge makes a ruling on something and a similar case comes up with another judge, the same ruling has to be made based on the precedent. There is no excuse for a steering column wearing out on stock springs in less than 17,000 and then another steering column wearing out on Pedders in less than 10,000.
Not even talking about guys who are slammed on coilovers for 100s of thousands of miles and they don't experience the same issue.
After doing some more research, the link posted earlier to the $100 part, that's a replacement intermediate shaft, I don't 100% believe that it will resolve my problem due to the fact that last time when intermediate shaft was replaced on my other car, it didn't fix the issue. The steering column itself had to be replaced altogether.
Not even talking about guys who are slammed on coilovers for 100s of thousands of miles and they don't experience the same issue.
After doing some more research, the link posted earlier to the $100 part, that's a replacement intermediate shaft, I don't 100% believe that it will resolve my problem due to the fact that last time when intermediate shaft was replaced on my other car, it didn't fix the issue. The steering column itself had to be replaced altogether.
Last edited by Aleksey; 06-13-2013 at 01:52 AM.
06-13-2013, 01:56 AM
#96
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If they fixed the first car, they should fix the other. It shouldn't pick and choose based on how they feel that day. Just like in the justice system, there are things called precedents. If a judge makes a ruling on something and a similar case comes up with another judge, the same ruling has to be made based on the precedent. There is no excuse for a steering column wearing out on stock springs in less than 17,000 and then another steering column wearing out on Pedders in less than 10,000.
Not even talking about guys who are slammed on coilovers for 100s of thousands of miles and they don't experience the same issue.
After doing some more research, the link posted earlier to the $100 part, that's a replacement intermediate shaft, I don't 100% believe that it will resolve my problem due to the fact that last time when intermediate shaft was replaced on my other car, it didn't fix the issue. The steering column itself had to be replaced altogether.
Not even talking about guys who are slammed on coilovers for 100s of thousands of miles and they don't experience the same issue.
After doing some more research, the link posted earlier to the $100 part, that's a replacement intermediate shaft, I don't 100% believe that it will resolve my problem due to the fact that last time when intermediate shaft was replaced on my other car, it didn't fix the issue. The steering column itself had to be replaced altogether.
As soon as you mod your car gm can tell you to **** off, and so they should. If you want a warranty then don't come crying when stuff is broken from aftermarket parts. Seriously.
06-13-2013, 02:21 AM
#97
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It's a federal law.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))
This federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. The essence of the law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle maker's brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided. The law states in relevant part:
“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name...” (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)).
Also watch this:
Clearly shows what a POS design it is and that it's not Pedders fault.
Oh yeah and... http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money...steering_N.htm
http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/..._spent_on.html
Hmm, yeah definitely Pedders fault!! Damn them!!
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))
This federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. The essence of the law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle maker's brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided. The law states in relevant part:
“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name...” (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)).
Also watch this:
Clearly shows what a POS design it is and that it's not Pedders fault.
Oh yeah and... http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money...steering_N.htm
http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/..._spent_on.html
Hmm, yeah definitely Pedders fault!! Damn them!!
Last edited by Aleksey; 06-13-2013 at 02:46 AM.
06-13-2013, 02:52 AM
#98
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I had the column rattle, replaced once and seemed to be fine afterwards. I had issues with the rear brakes that I couldn't figure out. Turns out the guys that bought my car found out that it looks like someone used an impact hammer to get some bolt in after they stripped it.
I ended up leaving the SS for my daily, but I love this community so I'm sticking around.
I ended up leaving the SS for my daily, but I love this community so I'm sticking around.
06-13-2013, 03:03 AM
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I love the fact that GM is well aware of how much of POS their steering column is, even sued the supplier for 30 million dollars but then STILL refuses to replace it and would rather blame it on aftermarket springs