Breather Filter or Rubber Hose..??
01-12-2009, 03:46 AM
#76
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i've never gotten a cel from it, but i'm looking into catch cans as i type this to see what i can come up with.
once again you still can not read, he provided me with a correct term to search cause apparently i wasn't search for the right thing. he also bother to break it down and explain it, if you did explain it as he did i odviously didn't catch on.
once again you still can not read, he provided me with a correct term to search cause apparently i wasn't search for the right thing. he also bother to break it down and explain it, if you did explain it as he did i odviously didn't catch on.
Last edited by knoxbox; 01-12-2009 at 03:46 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
01-12-2009, 03:55 AM
#78
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The answer is that the PCV system IS the go green environmentalist answer to a certain extent.
Blowby or road draft, just straight venting the crankcase to atmosphere is what was done in the past, it allows the engine to breathe in and out as it can by design, with no vacuum pulling on crankcase.
Exhaust evacuation system are old school, and really most efficient on unmuffled race engines that see 3500+rpm on a regular basis, they use exhaust pulses to suck vapors out of engine, you cant do this on a Cobalt because youd be introducing oil vapor into the catalytic converter. These systems are roughly as effective as a PCV system at removing oil vapor and harmful vapors when used through the valve cover, "pan" evac kits also suck on the oil pan, making the system function even better, but still nowhere near as effective a a true pump based crankcase/vac/evac system.
A pump, electric on some simpler systems but almost always engine driven, creates a true constant vacuum of roughly 5-15"hg in the crankcase, timing cover, valve covers, etc. This means there is more pressure outisde the engines oil seals than inside so oil leaks are greatly reduced, it is very effective at getting all the oil vapors out of the engine(like anthing else when two things collide energy used transferred, in this case, energy from the crank/rods/pistons is transferred to the oil when they collide, reducing power output.) it also makes it easier for engine to spin over becuase it doesnt have to pump air with the bottoms of the pistons too...so more horspeower there too. These arent used on street because pumps durable enough for constant street use are crazy expensive, they can be noisy(think "SAI" running all the time) it would be very difficult to get to meet emissions because of how much air the system draws throught the engine, it requires an oil separator tank(which needs to be drained, or in the case of a road car would require extra controls and software to allow it to auto drain back into crankcase when engine was off.) Ive personally seen as much as 20hp be freed up by a belt driven vaccum system on a fully built 427small block.
Try a search for crankcase evacuation systems, crankcase vacuum systems, positive crankcase ventilation systems.
Blowby or road draft, just straight venting the crankcase to atmosphere is what was done in the past, it allows the engine to breathe in and out as it can by design, with no vacuum pulling on crankcase.
Exhaust evacuation system are old school, and really most efficient on unmuffled race engines that see 3500+rpm on a regular basis, they use exhaust pulses to suck vapors out of engine, you cant do this on a Cobalt because youd be introducing oil vapor into the catalytic converter. These systems are roughly as effective as a PCV system at removing oil vapor and harmful vapors when used through the valve cover, "pan" evac kits also suck on the oil pan, making the system function even better, but still nowhere near as effective a a true pump based crankcase/vac/evac system.
A pump, electric on some simpler systems but almost always engine driven, creates a true constant vacuum of roughly 5-15"hg in the crankcase, timing cover, valve covers, etc. This means there is more pressure outisde the engines oil seals than inside so oil leaks are greatly reduced, it is very effective at getting all the oil vapors out of the engine(like anthing else when two things collide energy used transferred, in this case, energy from the crank/rods/pistons is transferred to the oil when they collide, reducing power output.) it also makes it easier for engine to spin over becuase it doesnt have to pump air with the bottoms of the pistons too...so more horspeower there too. These arent used on street because pumps durable enough for constant street use are crazy expensive, they can be noisy(think "SAI" running all the time) it would be very difficult to get to meet emissions because of how much air the system draws throught the engine, it requires an oil separator tank(which needs to be drained, or in the case of a road car would require extra controls and software to allow it to auto drain back into crankcase when engine was off.) Ive personally seen as much as 20hp be freed up by a belt driven vaccum system on a fully built 427small block.
Try a search for crankcase evacuation systems, crankcase vacuum systems, positive crankcase ventilation systems.
and the fact that he actually explained it rather than just saying this is how it is and its been proven.
01-12-2009, 04:23 AM
#79
not being an *******, your the one that said i didn't bother to read what everyone was saying yet your not. just pointing out the odvious. as you seemed to point out to me.
and the fact that he actually explained it rather than just saying this is how it is and its been proven.
and the fact that he actually explained it rather than just saying this is how it is and its been proven.
01-12-2009, 04:32 AM
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point is i understand what is going on now, i was reading in another thread about this and witt said that basically doing the setup i have is creating a air leak...
now im a bit confused cause i thougth the intake was what created vacuum and pulled out the oily air etc... but what witt said was that the air is actually sucked in through the crankcase... and that is were the unmetered air comes from so now im even more confused...
so now im wondering if at idle its vacuum and at other times is pulling air into the crankcase, ah man...
so if i'm right then the venting to the atmosphere isn't the bad part its sucking unmetered air into the crankcase that is bad... with this being said there is no real way to have a good setup catch can would be the most appropriate but your still sucking in warm air in to the intake in the other thread a guy said about 9 degree's difference, between having it capped off and recirced.
i'd rather not have the air recirced but you have to to have metered air going into the crankcase. so i guess catch can is were i am headed. 9 degrees shouldn't be that much of a difference like maven said...
if i'm wrong please try and explain it to me in lamens terms LOL...
01-12-2009, 06:05 AM
#82
every 10* air is 1% denser. so assuming your running maybe 270bhp (typical stage 2 car i guess), you'll see about a 2.5hp loss. However, letting it vent to atmosphere will remove any vacuum from the crankcase leaving you with more pumping losses. The pumping losses probably (i dont have exact numbers) make up for the 2.5hp gain and cause a 2.5hp loss...lol
01-12-2009, 10:46 AM
#83
A crankcase ventiltion system is used to consume crankcase vapors in the combustion process instead of vent them to atmosphere. Fresh air from the intake system is supplied to the crankcase, mixed with blow by and then passed through a calibrated orifice into the intake manifold.
The reason you cant remove the breather hose from the intake tubes is that that hoses main purpose isnt to let the engine breathe OUT, thats where it sucks IN fresh air from. It sucks it in through there, (it came past the MAF so it knows how much was sucked in) suxks it through the cam cover down theough the oil drains and through front cover through the cranckase(picking up oil, blowby and other vapors along the way) and it continues sucking it back through the PCV orifice in the cylinder where it goes intop the intake manifold and gets mixed with the fresh incoming air and burned.
In other words, if you let the breather hose suck fresh unmetered air youve just created a vacuum leak, exactly the same as if you disconnected the brake booster hose.
So if you let it suck in air through a breather on the cam cover its sucking in air that the computer doesnt know about, meaning its getting more air into the combustion process than the computer knows about...because all the air that goes in through that breather hose justs gets suckied into the intake manifold to get burned........thats why it sets codes, youll eventually set a P0171(in rare cases other codes) fuel trim system lean.
If youre super concerned about the cleanliness of the inside of your intake tubing you can add an oil seperator to the breather hose, but leave it attached to the intake at some point between the MAF and TB
This isnt accurate HK. Even with the breather vented to atmosphere and not in the metered air source you still have the same PCV system function, the same crankcase vacuum, but youll have an itnake vacuum leak.
Last edited by Maven; 01-12-2009 at 10:46 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
01-12-2009, 02:39 PM
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thanks
maven okay now it makes alot more since, i figured it did both after reading both your's and witts post...
now my question is about catch can or oil seperators catch cans are friggin huge, i searched for small ones smallest i could find was like 4" long by 2.5 wide, but i know i've see some in pictures maybe 2" long by 1.5" wide. surely a na car doesn't need a huge as catch can like that, on ebay i saw what is called a seperator as you said, and it was tiny maybe 1" by 1" and i wasn't sure if that was big enough, also how often should i clean a catch can, and is it just as simple as cutting the hose between crankcase and intake and attaching it to the catchcan?
thanks again guys... good info.
oh also, odviously you would want the hose between the crankcase and the catch can to be closer, as you would want the oil to hit the catch can before air started flowing the other direction cause it would suck that oil back into the crank case at some point, so the longer the hose the worse the setup would be correct?
maven okay now it makes alot more since, i figured it did both after reading both your's and witts post...
now my question is about catch can or oil seperators catch cans are friggin huge, i searched for small ones smallest i could find was like 4" long by 2.5 wide, but i know i've see some in pictures maybe 2" long by 1.5" wide. surely a na car doesn't need a huge as catch can like that, on ebay i saw what is called a seperator as you said, and it was tiny maybe 1" by 1" and i wasn't sure if that was big enough, also how often should i clean a catch can, and is it just as simple as cutting the hose between crankcase and intake and attaching it to the catchcan?
thanks again guys... good info.
oh also, odviously you would want the hose between the crankcase and the catch can to be closer, as you would want the oil to hit the catch can before air started flowing the other direction cause it would suck that oil back into the crank case at some point, so the longer the hose the worse the setup would be correct?
01-12-2009, 03:03 PM
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ah good idea dayum you always have the right idea in your head LOL...
am i right in saying that a normal catch can is way to large for a n/a setup even a boost setup i think they are overly large.
am i right in saying that a normal catch can is way to large for a n/a setup even a boost setup i think they are overly large.
01-12-2009, 04:05 PM
#89
well Maven, while were on the topic... You said the PCV outlet side connects to the IM so the vapors can be burned...where is this connection? I dont recall any connection to the IM on the LSJ other than for HE coolant, the inlet plenum, and the 4 ports that lead to the head. Also on the L61 IM, i only remember the inlet plenum, 4 runner ports, and a port for the brake booster to connect to. Is it maybe built into the head itsel in our cars? or am i just missing it?
01-12-2009, 07:32 PM
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01-13-2009, 01:44 AM
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hrm i searched for a catch can for a motorcycle there is nothing... i guess i'll end up goign with the smallest one i can find for a car, think it was 4" by 2.5". hope i can mount it pretty close.
01-13-2009, 03:57 AM
#95
BUY THIS http://phase2motorsports.stores.yaho...pmioilcat.html
EDIT: no I dont know how big it is exactly, but not too big, if you search for it someone proly measured it somewhere. Or you could just solve the math problem of: how big would a cylinder have to be if it was twice as tall as it was in diameter in order to hold 250cc oil, shouldnt be too hard
01-13-2009, 05:00 AM
#97
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Will a K&N filter throw a CEL too? I've read that it clogs up the MAF sensor and throws one.. This true? If so, I'm going to replace it with my stock Injen cone.. And then, how do you clean the MAF? I'm getting tired of this CEL.. How do you clear CEL's after you fix the problem?
01-13-2009, 05:17 AM
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I have not scanned it with any type of scanner, but I threw on my cat back and filter at the same time, so I'll start with the easy fix first.. 