double cluthing
07-22-2006, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverStreak
Someone's been watching way too many movies involving Paul Walker...
07-22-2006, 12:49 PM
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old, non-synchronized transmissioned required that you'd shove the clutch in, kick the shifter to neutral, let the clutch out and then kick in the clutch again to be able to go to the next higher or lower gear. And you had to do this really fast so you could switch gears otherwise there would an apocalyptic bang/grind/crash from the transmission! You haven't needed to double clutch anything since the early sixties. If you were actually racing someone and were double clutching, you'd lose.
and and don't forget granny shifting... whatever the **** that is.
Scott
and and don't forget granny shifting... whatever the **** that is.
Scott
07-22-2006, 12:51 PM
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you can still double clutch on downshifts, to match the engine revs. Or you can work on heel-toe downshifts, but unless you on a track or autocross it isnt really necessary.
07-22-2006, 01:11 PM
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Hey, I actually had to learn how to double clutch. Of course, I had to learn cuz I was driving a deuce & a half around. Those things suck. Double clutch and no power steering.
07-22-2006, 01:25 PM
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Double clutching is not necessary in modern cars...sometimes I drive our companies Freightliner with a 6-speed and the thing won't shift well at all clutch or not if you can't rev match. You have to use the clutch in 2nd only to start off then once you get going in gear, the shifter will want to pull out of gear around 2.2k rpm after a little throttle blip, pull it into neutral drop revs slightly and it will slide into gear ever so smoothly. Downshifting is harder, have to rev the motor to get the gears to engage smoothly, be thankful you don't have to deal with that, it takes a lot of practice to get good.
07-22-2006, 01:35 PM
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unless you wanna drive big trucks(semi's) i wouldnt worry about double clutchin... Only way it would "help" is downshifting: clutch in, pop into nuetral, clutch out, rev match(rev engine into higher RPM's), clutch in, lower gear. The only thing that helps with is it reduces the sudden jerk/pull when you downshift... other wise forget it...
07-22-2006, 01:38 PM
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Really?
I have heard all the "back in the day" versions. But I believe all double clutching means now it to lift of the gas when you clutch. Its just easier on the trasmission. Modern cars have synchronizers now so rev matching is not needed.
07-22-2006, 02:05 PM
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Double clutching while heel-toe shifting is still a very important racing technique.
While your hauling towards a corner it is necessary to downshift into the proper gear before you enter the turn. Double clutch heel-toeing lets you do this very smoothly so you won't upset the balance of the vehicle just before you enter a turn. It is also a method of being able to apply the brakes and smoothly downshift simultaneously.
The process:
1. Start braking with right toe on the right side of the brake pedal.
2. Clutch in.
3. Shifter into next into neutral.
4. Clutch out.
5. Bottom part of right foot is moved over and carefully blips the throttle about 800 rpm higher, while not letting the toes off the brake and still applying even brake pressure.
6.Clutch in
7.Just after you blip the throttle and the revs are still up you shift into the next lowest gear
8.Clutch out
Someone correct me if I missed anything. It's much easier to show it to people, than to explain it. A buddy of mine though I was a moron when I told him how to do it, and what it was for. He said "You'll never need to do that, even in a race. That's so stupid." Then I took him around some corners at a less than safe pace and showed him why it was useful. He understood right away what it was used for once I showed it to him in action.
Double clutching is useless in a 1/4 mile or any other race in a straight line. Powershifting however, is very usefull.
While your hauling towards a corner it is necessary to downshift into the proper gear before you enter the turn. Double clutch heel-toeing lets you do this very smoothly so you won't upset the balance of the vehicle just before you enter a turn. It is also a method of being able to apply the brakes and smoothly downshift simultaneously.
The process:
1. Start braking with right toe on the right side of the brake pedal.
2. Clutch in.
3. Shifter into next into neutral.
4. Clutch out.
5. Bottom part of right foot is moved over and carefully blips the throttle about 800 rpm higher, while not letting the toes off the brake and still applying even brake pressure.
6.Clutch in
7.Just after you blip the throttle and the revs are still up you shift into the next lowest gear
8.Clutch out
Someone correct me if I missed anything. It's much easier to show it to people, than to explain it. A buddy of mine though I was a moron when I told him how to do it, and what it was for. He said "You'll never need to do that, even in a race. That's so stupid." Then I took him around some corners at a less than safe pace and showed him why it was useful. He understood right away what it was used for once I showed it to him in action.
Double clutching is useless in a 1/4 mile or any other race in a straight line. Powershifting however, is very usefull.
07-22-2006, 05:34 PM
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Rev matching is kicking the clutch in while give the accelerator a blip to bring the RPM's up to optimal. You really have to know your car to get the hang of this. That way, hammering into a corner, you have the curve right where you need it. Also, it saves on the brakes in corners. My feet are too big and my pedals are too far apart to heel-toe... oh well.
Powershifting in something that really hurts. That's holding the accelerator to the floorpan, and railing the shifter through the gears without clutch... it's a sure-fire way to break a transaxle/transmission.
Driving a manual transmission diesel, most of the time, you only need the clutch to take off with... In fact, it's better to not use the clutch on the upshift because you lose alot of momentum.
Scott
Powershifting in something that really hurts. That's holding the accelerator to the floorpan, and railing the shifter through the gears without clutch... it's a sure-fire way to break a transaxle/transmission.
Driving a manual transmission diesel, most of the time, you only need the clutch to take off with... In fact, it's better to not use the clutch on the upshift because you lose alot of momentum.
Scott
07-22-2006, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Biffno3
I have heard all the "back in the day" versions. But I believe all double clutching means now it to lift of the gas when you clutch. Its just easier on the trasmission. Modern cars have synchronizers now so rev matching is not needed.
07-22-2006, 05:55 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by BullDog71ss
Double clutching while heel-toe shifting is still a very important racing technique.
While your hauling towards a corner it is necessary to downshift into the proper gear before you enter the turn. Double clutch heel-toeing lets you do this very smoothly so you won't upset the balance of the vehicle just before you enter a turn. It is also a method of being able to apply the brakes and smoothly downshift simultaneously.
The process:
1. Start braking with right toe on the right side of the brake pedal.
2. Clutch in.
3. Shifter into next into neutral.
4. Clutch out.
5. Bottom part of right foot is moved over and carefully blips the throttle about 800 rpm higher, while not letting the toes off the brake and still applying even brake pressure.
6.Clutch in
7.Just after you blip the throttle and the revs are still up you shift into the next lowest gear
8.Clutch out
Someone correct me if I missed anything. It's much easier to show it to people, than to explain it. A buddy of mine though I was a moron when I told him how to do it, and what it was for. He said "You'll never need to do that, even in a race. That's so stupid." Then I took him around some corners at a less than safe pace and showed him why it was useful. He understood right away what it was used for once I showed it to him in action.
Double clutching is useless in a 1/4 mile or any other race in a straight line. Powershifting however, is very usefull.
While your hauling towards a corner it is necessary to downshift into the proper gear before you enter the turn. Double clutch heel-toeing lets you do this very smoothly so you won't upset the balance of the vehicle just before you enter a turn. It is also a method of being able to apply the brakes and smoothly downshift simultaneously.
The process:
1. Start braking with right toe on the right side of the brake pedal.
2. Clutch in.
3. Shifter into next into neutral.
4. Clutch out.
5. Bottom part of right foot is moved over and carefully blips the throttle about 800 rpm higher, while not letting the toes off the brake and still applying even brake pressure.
6.Clutch in
7.Just after you blip the throttle and the revs are still up you shift into the next lowest gear
8.Clutch out
Someone correct me if I missed anything. It's much easier to show it to people, than to explain it. A buddy of mine though I was a moron when I told him how to do it, and what it was for. He said "You'll never need to do that, even in a race. That's so stupid." Then I took him around some corners at a less than safe pace and showed him why it was useful. He understood right away what it was used for once I showed it to him in action.
Double clutching is useless in a 1/4 mile or any other race in a straight line. Powershifting however, is very usefull.
No one needs to powershift and if you are good enough you can shift very fast while using the clutch.
07-22-2006, 05:59 PM
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Double-clutching is usually reserved for those driving trucks or high performance racing cars, but anyone with a manual transmission can perform this simple feat.
For most manual transmission drivers, the act of shifting gears is a straightforward one. First the clutch is depressed, then the shifter is thrown into the next gear, and finally the clutch is released putting the car back into gear. All of this is usually done without thinking, at least after some practice.
But double clutching adds a third step into the mix. The shifter, rather than going straight to the next gear, makes a stop in neutral and then the clutch is released. This is to allow the engine to slow down (or with a tap on the gas, speed up when downshifting) so the transition into the next gear is much more smooth. The driver then depresses the clutch again and completes the shift into the target gear, and finally the clutch is released again, putting the car back into gear. It only takes a split second for the engine speed to match the speed of the gears, so the entire action is done very quickly as a fluid sequence of events.
Most modern cars, however, are equipped with devices called synchronizers that help to synchronize the speed of the gearbox with that of the engine. This effectively eliminates the need for double clutching. Some large trucks on the other hand have so many gears that synchronizers are inefficient, while race cars can squeeze out more power without them, making double clutching a fact of life.
There are times, however, that a normal car driver may want to make use of double clutching. Many manual transmission drivers realize the advantages of downshifting in slippery conditions. Rather than brake and skid, a car with a manual transmission can make use of the engine to slow down - thereby eliminating the possibility of a skid. But even with synchronizers, a driver trying to shift from fifth gear into second could have some trouble. In this case, double clutching by pausing in neutral and giving the engine a little gas to match speeds of the engine and gearbox, can allow such a drastic shift.
Some driving purists maintain that it's still the proper way to shift, and makes for a much smoother ride. It eliminates some of the jumpiness sometimes felt in a manual transmission car, and it decreases the stress on the gearbox. In any case, double clutching a skill worth having in emergency downshift situations, and not very difficult to learn.
For most manual transmission drivers, the act of shifting gears is a straightforward one. First the clutch is depressed, then the shifter is thrown into the next gear, and finally the clutch is released putting the car back into gear. All of this is usually done without thinking, at least after some practice.
But double clutching adds a third step into the mix. The shifter, rather than going straight to the next gear, makes a stop in neutral and then the clutch is released. This is to allow the engine to slow down (or with a tap on the gas, speed up when downshifting) so the transition into the next gear is much more smooth. The driver then depresses the clutch again and completes the shift into the target gear, and finally the clutch is released again, putting the car back into gear. It only takes a split second for the engine speed to match the speed of the gears, so the entire action is done very quickly as a fluid sequence of events.
Most modern cars, however, are equipped with devices called synchronizers that help to synchronize the speed of the gearbox with that of the engine. This effectively eliminates the need for double clutching. Some large trucks on the other hand have so many gears that synchronizers are inefficient, while race cars can squeeze out more power without them, making double clutching a fact of life.
There are times, however, that a normal car driver may want to make use of double clutching. Many manual transmission drivers realize the advantages of downshifting in slippery conditions. Rather than brake and skid, a car with a manual transmission can make use of the engine to slow down - thereby eliminating the possibility of a skid. But even with synchronizers, a driver trying to shift from fifth gear into second could have some trouble. In this case, double clutching by pausing in neutral and giving the engine a little gas to match speeds of the engine and gearbox, can allow such a drastic shift.
Some driving purists maintain that it's still the proper way to shift, and makes for a much smoother ride. It eliminates some of the jumpiness sometimes felt in a manual transmission car, and it decreases the stress on the gearbox. In any case, double clutching a skill worth having in emergency downshift situations, and not very difficult to learn.
07-22-2006, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by snobird
Double-clutching is usually reserved for those driving trucks or high performance racing cars, but anyone with a manual transmission can perform this simple feat.
For most manual transmission drivers, the act of shifting gears is a straightforward one. First the clutch is depressed, then the shifter is thrown into the next gear, and finally the clutch is released putting the car back into gear. All of this is usually done without thinking, at least after some practice.
But double clutching adds a third step into the mix. The shifter, rather than going straight to the next gear, makes a stop in neutral and then the clutch is released. This is to allow the engine to slow down (or with a tap on the gas, speed up when downshifting) so the transition into the next gear is much more smooth. The driver then depresses the clutch again and completes the shift into the target gear, and finally the clutch is released again, putting the car back into gear. It only takes a split second for the engine speed to match the speed of the gears, so the entire action is done very quickly as a fluid sequence of events.
Most modern cars, however, are equipped with devices called synchronizers that help to synchronize the speed of the gearbox with that of the engine. This effectively eliminates the need for double clutching. Some large trucks on the other hand have so many gears that synchronizers are inefficient, while race cars can squeeze out more power without them, making double clutching a fact of life.
There are times, however, that a normal car driver may want to make use of double clutching. Many manual transmission drivers realize the advantages of downshifting in slippery conditions. Rather than brake and skid, a car with a manual transmission can make use of the engine to slow down - thereby eliminating the possibility of a skid. But even with synchronizers, a driver trying to shift from fifth gear into second could have some trouble. In this case, double clutching by pausing in neutral and giving the engine a little gas to match speeds of the engine and gearbox, can allow such a drastic shift.
Some driving purists maintain that it's still the proper way to shift, and makes for a much smoother ride. It eliminates some of the jumpiness sometimes felt in a manual transmission car, and it decreases the stress on the gearbox. In any case, double clutching a skill worth having in emergency downshift situations, and not very difficult to learn.
For most manual transmission drivers, the act of shifting gears is a straightforward one. First the clutch is depressed, then the shifter is thrown into the next gear, and finally the clutch is released putting the car back into gear. All of this is usually done without thinking, at least after some practice.
But double clutching adds a third step into the mix. The shifter, rather than going straight to the next gear, makes a stop in neutral and then the clutch is released. This is to allow the engine to slow down (or with a tap on the gas, speed up when downshifting) so the transition into the next gear is much more smooth. The driver then depresses the clutch again and completes the shift into the target gear, and finally the clutch is released again, putting the car back into gear. It only takes a split second for the engine speed to match the speed of the gears, so the entire action is done very quickly as a fluid sequence of events.
Most modern cars, however, are equipped with devices called synchronizers that help to synchronize the speed of the gearbox with that of the engine. This effectively eliminates the need for double clutching. Some large trucks on the other hand have so many gears that synchronizers are inefficient, while race cars can squeeze out more power without them, making double clutching a fact of life.
There are times, however, that a normal car driver may want to make use of double clutching. Many manual transmission drivers realize the advantages of downshifting in slippery conditions. Rather than brake and skid, a car with a manual transmission can make use of the engine to slow down - thereby eliminating the possibility of a skid. But even with synchronizers, a driver trying to shift from fifth gear into second could have some trouble. In this case, double clutching by pausing in neutral and giving the engine a little gas to match speeds of the engine and gearbox, can allow such a drastic shift.
Some driving purists maintain that it's still the proper way to shift, and makes for a much smoother ride. It eliminates some of the jumpiness sometimes felt in a manual transmission car, and it decreases the stress on the gearbox. In any case, double clutching a skill worth having in emergency downshift situations, and not very difficult to learn.
07-22-2006, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverStreak
I was under the impression that lifting off the gas when shifting was the "normal" way to drive a manual transmission car.
It is. Power Shifting is when you DON'T lift off the gas, and can burn up a clutch pretty quick.
Granny shifting is the exact opposite of power shifting. When you granny shift you push the clutch all the way to the floor, lift off the gas, shift the gears, and then apply pressure to the gas pedal slowly while fully lifting off the clutch.
When powershifting you normally don't press the clutch ALL the way to the floor before you make the shift, and you're usually going WOT when you disengage the clutch, while your foot never fully leaves the clutch to make the next shift quicker. ---->Good way to kill your clutch a lot quicker.
the Double clutching thing in Fast & Furious was nonsensical as it didn't apply to what they were discussing in any way, shape, or form. Both actors bitched mighty hard about the dialogue but the director absolutely refused to let them change it, so it really wasn't their fault at all. The director/writer were complete retards. But then we all know that movie had almost no basis in reality. It was for entertainment purposes only.
07-22-2006, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BullDog71ss
If done right powershifting won't hurt your clutch.
That is highly debatable. get us 2 identical cars, and give me one, and you the other, and over the course of 5 years, you'll replace that clutch at least twice as much as I have to replace mine, and more than likely 3 times as much.
It increases the wear of the clutch, plain and simple.
07-22-2006, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jokieman
It is. Power Shifting is when you DON'T lift off the gas, and can burn up a clutch pretty quick.
Granny shifting is the exact opposite of power shifting. When you granny shift you push the clutch all the way to the floor, lift off the gas, shift the gears, and then apply pressure to the gas pedal slowly while fully lifting off the clutch.
When powershifting you normally don't press the clutch ALL the way to the floor before you make the shift, and you're usually going WOT when you disengage the clutch, while your foot never fully leaves the clutch to make the next shift quicker. ---->Good way to kill your clutch a lot quicker.
the Double clutching thing in Fast & Furious was nonsensical as it didn't apply to what they were discussing in any way, shape, or form. Both actors bitched mighty hard about the dialogue but the director absolutely refused to let them change it, so it really wasn't their fault at all. The director/writer were complete retards. But then we all know that movie had almost no basis in reality. It was for entertainment purposes only.
Granny shifting is the exact opposite of power shifting. When you granny shift you push the clutch all the way to the floor, lift off the gas, shift the gears, and then apply pressure to the gas pedal slowly while fully lifting off the clutch.
When powershifting you normally don't press the clutch ALL the way to the floor before you make the shift, and you're usually going WOT when you disengage the clutch, while your foot never fully leaves the clutch to make the next shift quicker. ---->Good way to kill your clutch a lot quicker.
the Double clutching thing in Fast & Furious was nonsensical as it didn't apply to what they were discussing in any way, shape, or form. Both actors bitched mighty hard about the dialogue but the director absolutely refused to let them change it, so it really wasn't their fault at all. The director/writer were complete retards. But then we all know that movie had almost no basis in reality. It was for entertainment purposes only.
07-22-2006, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Adirondack_Cobalt
... don't forget granny shifting... whatever the **** that is.
Scott
Scott
The only time I've ever had a need to double-clutch was several years ago when the synchros took leave of their duties in my Camaro. It was either double-clutch or grind half the teeth off the dogs in the tranny...
Just pay attention to the rest of that F&F scene to get an idea of how valid anything he says is. He was in danger of blowing the welds on his manifold?!? His floorboards fell out of his car because of the speed? (Only to get magically replaced when he needed to give Dom a lift a few minutes later)
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