agreed I wasnt trying to dis-prove the underrating - I was just pointing out that 390 is far from 490

I like underrating . . . if certain cars were not underrated - it would be even more exspensive to buy them and own them

 

yea it would be fun.... it would also be fun if a ss/sc had a clutch that could handle a burnout contest

 

in defence of the srt guy...every srt4 is made differently...i have driven some that had mad power and some that dont...the big difference is the year they were made in. in the srt world if you drive a 04 you own all 05...and 03 but thats because they dont have the LSD option in the tranny yet. but then again 2 04s are not alike as well. the thing i like about the srt4s there not much you can do upgrade wise that makes it look not stock...i mean if you know what the stock motor looks like then yes you can tell the difference. for example the AGP wastegate...(probally one of the best upgrades for the stock turbo)..you can turn up boost with this device and it holds boost longer till redline..most srt4 boost stock 12-15 psi but the boost bleeds to 10 to redline..boost controllers, map clamps, the srt4 is a alaround awesome car...im just waiting on the later srt4...i have a worker at a dealer and he said the next srt4 will be on a AWD platform...hello traction...PS im a cobalt and srt4 driver..lol

 

yeah - the big difference between the 03's and 04's are LSD - bigger injectors (stage 1 injectors) - and an increase spark band and fuel band

its how they got the extra 10-15 horses and the extra 11 foot pounds of torque - and the extra .4 tenths in the 1/4

Thats why I always ask what year model people race when they talk about beating SRT's . . .

and as far as the futrture AWD platform (im pretty sure anyways) that that idea had been shot down . . . It would be really nice and i hope they go that route- even though i dont like the caliber SRT much . . .

Years down the road (after ive run this one to death and its paid off) - I think im gonna try to build an srt-4 AWD 600HP project car

but your right - as funny as it sounds - everyone is made alittle different . . . .
- Ive done ALOT of research in the way the SRT's are produced - and I know there is some human programming/tuning that is invovled toward the end . . . I know for a fact that some stock 04's dyno higher than other stock 04's (im sure there is a degree of this in the cobalt world) - I can tell you almost anything you wanna know in the way the car was produced and the concept car I enjoy researching stuff like that

another things to watch out for
There was rumored to be a handful for the ACR models (something like 150 I think) that the factory threw in the stage 1 computer which means its pushing about 240 horses and 260 foot pounds

 

in my car club we have a orange ACR srt and it keeps up with the stock stg1 ecu...the only reason i got the stg1 was the get rid of my cel...for my exaust..i ran open downpipe and 02 sensor didnt like that...everything else is controlled on a laptop hehehe

 

oh yeah

Man its crazy - SOME ACRs can consistantly run 13.7- 13.8 - and usally they are running about 2 flat out of the trap

I was actually gonna get an ACR - but my 04 stock SRT was a better deal - and i couldnt pass it up

and lets not forget that it SHINES at an actual track (not drag) . . .those things can hook up and scoot

the 5 way adjustable susp. helps that alot - they are awesome cars!

 

i want to know y the 04s are better than the 05s???

and if i ended up getting a 05 i can just change the things that make the 04 faster right???

and if i got one without the acr package i can buy a package correct???

 

The 04's and 05's are the same - some think that the some of the 04's might be pushing ALITTLE more power - but more than likely any 05 you find will be just as fast as the 04's

and as far as the ACR package . . .you could in theory buy it . . .But if you get a stock srt-4 - I dont think youll feel the need for it

Stockers handle pretty good - and unless your track racing . . you wont really need the ACR package -
The biggest difference is the wider rims and tires - but even then . . .you can get aftermarkets that will do the same thing

 

for some reason...the computer in the 04 doesnt care about mods...but in a 05 its very picky about mods...i had a turbo XS dual stage boost controller and on low boost it would be set at 12 psi but when you would shift into 2nd you would flip a switch and high boost would kick in...high boost was 18psi on stock turbo. worked excelent on a 04 but when put on an 05 it would throw boost codes out the wazoo. once you do turbo upgrades you will see that if you dont do the stg1 mod (which is just the ecu if you have a 04 or 05 but if you have a 03 you get the larger injectors aswell) you will get CELs more and more..i have always called it the true sign of power the CEL haha. if yall are really looking to buy a srt4 go to srtforums and look in the buy section...you can always find stg3 srts for great prices...i should have done that rather than hunt down a leftover on a lot...but i wanted a 04 lol

 

Hey guys.

Not trying to bunch any panties...but the LS1's were not underrated...I had three LS1's and an LT1 and none of them dyno'd over their rated horsepower...the talk about the LS1's being underrated was a myth started by people who never appreciated how fast they were to begin with. You have the mustang guy who "claims" to have 350 horse at the wheels who gets his ass handed to him by an LS1 and he immediately starts telling his friends that he still has 350 horse, it is just that the LS1 is underrated...BS...he OVERRATED his car...that was the problem.

Trust me LS1's are not underrated. Chevy does not have a habit of underrating their cars...back in the day witht eh camaros and such...the options were so great that the cars HP varied immensely from car to car..not to mention the method they used to dyno the cars were not as accurate as todays measures...so yes the old camaros were rated at "390", but back then on the dynos that WAS accurate...but using todays standards they found out they weren't even close

I really must express how nice it is to talk to an SRT4 owner that isnt a trash talking punk. I think we should join forces in taking out the imports dammit, not fight amongst ourselves.

Both the SRT4 and the SS are made a little different and for different purposes...the SS is a track car like the ACR SRT4...the standard SRT4 is a street car first, hence the four doors.

Not too sure about the redline being faster comment...is this proven?? Not sure how a car with the same engine...same gearing...only heavier (due to suicide doors) is considered "faster", but what the hay do I know? I'm new to the compact arena...I've always owned camaros and vettes.

 

I have to disagree with you on some of your points . I have witnessed several, upon several bone stock LS1’s (especially the 02’s with the LS6 intake) dyno at Conley’s Performance down the road from my house when they have their monthly dyno days, and I’d say 90% of them all dynoed above 300rwhp, the lowest I recall was around 280ish rwhp. Now factoring a conservative 15% drive-train loss 300rwhp still equates to around 340+ flywheel horsepower. There was a 1LE 02 Camaro Z28 that I actually have on VHS that dynoed 318rwhp and it still had paper plates. Keep in mind as well that Mustang Dynometers typically show lower numbers but are considered more accurate than Dynojets. The elevation, humidity, temperature was all factored into the correction factor so I’d say it was about as accurate as you could get. Of course I am speaking in terms of the F-bodies advertised horsepower/torque ratings, not the Corvettes.

However, I will say that when it comes to performance they almost all perform the same. I’ve seen 4L60-E equipped Z28’s run near identical times despite almost a 20rwhp difference at HRP. Granted there are always other factors to consider when calculating an ET, but basically the point is I’ve never seen a bone stock LS1 that put down 300+rwhp blow the doors off of one that dynoed less…they were all very very close in 1/4, 1/8th and 60ft’s ET wise.

Just look at the Grand National GNX. That car was rated at 275 flywheel hp yet it was tested to run an average of a 13.4 bone stock with a sub 5 second 0-60 time.

 

FNFAST, You really don't think LS1's are under-rated, do you know what under-rated means.

When GM adverises a HP rating it is BHP not wheel HP there is no this car or that car it's BHP.

All of the ricers and Mustang studs are to stupid sometimes to even notice how the LSJ is rated.

GM says 205HP @ 5600rpm, do you see anything wrong with this rating being a F/I four cylinder engine? It does actually make around 205HP @ 5600rpm but it continues to make more until redline.

As for LS1's yes they are under-rated in F-Bodies. When GM says 305HP and it has 315WHP that is under-rating at it's best.

 

Do I know what underrated means??

Well here is a list of ALL the people from Z28.com who have dyno'd 300RWHP...notice all the "stock" cars you see that hit 300RWHP?? And before you start talking about how a full exhaust is close enough to stock...know this...once I got the full exhaust put on my 00 SS...I gained a little over 20 horse at the wheels.

300whp

1. Phantompooper------396hp/390tq ('00 SS, intake, exhaust, cam, tune)
2. striped30th----------360hp/357tq ('97 Z28, cc306,few bolt ons)
3. naSSty--------------360hp/350tq ('00 SS, exhaust, TR224 cam)SAE
4. louvit----------------348hp/425tq ('93 z28, 100 shot, headers, pcm for less, edelbrock catless back, slipping clutch)
5. jblindy---------------343hp/359tq ('01 Z28, free mods, catback, cai) std
6. Tom-----------------343hp/351tq ('02 SS M6, full exhaust & CAI) SAE
7. squirrelishere---------340hp/343tq ('98 Z28, CAI, cat back)
8. Louvit---------------338hp/380tq ('93 Z28,75 shot, exhaust)
9. 2000Navyz-----------334hp/333tq ('00 Z28, Lid, Catback)
10. WartHog------------330.8hp/356.9tq ('98 Z28, headers/y, 3.73s, !cats, !muffler, free mods, tune, lid) STD
11. XaphanZ------------330hp/304tq ('96 Z28, cam, heads, cat-back, bolt ons) STD
12. Lyger1983----------325hp/342tq ('00 Formula Firebird, K&N filter, FRA mod, !cats, SLP LM)
13. Macleod------------325hp/337tq ('95 Z28, cam, full exhaust, dyno tune, bolt ons) SAE
14. shaun_t50----------322hp/337tq ('00 Z28, FIPKII,TB bypass,!muffler) STD
15. RymerC-------------314hp/339tq ('93 Z28, all external bolt ons) SAE
16. DeanasDork---------314hp/327tq ('99 T/A intake,free mods)SAE
17. Rebel---------------309hp/343tq ('99 Z28, exhaust, lid)
18. 94green1le---------305hp/337tq ('94 z28/1le - full exhaust)
19. zguy00-------------305hp/335tq ('00 Z28, full exhaust)
20. silvr002001---------302hp/335tq ('97 z28 hotcam,bolt ons,dyno tune) SAE
21. chads96z-----------302hp/330tq ('96 Z28 CAI, Headers) SAE
22. Mustang Muncher---301hp/315tq ('00 Z28, flowmaster and 3.73's) STD


So in answer to your question..yes I know what it means, so before you start asking about if I know what it means or if I know what I am talking about...I have probably owned more F-bodies...than you have stood next to on the dyno...so be careful about flaming.

 

PS...after 9 years of going to dyno days and f-body meetings...I have NEVER...and I repeat NEVER seen a STOCK LS1 dyno 315RWHP. So I am not sure if you were lied to, but unless it's your car...you are clueless to whether or not it is truly stock becuase it is to easy to say..."oh yeah, it's stock...and be full of crap"...

Again...I have owned a 93Z28, 96 Z28, 98 Z28, 00 SS, 97 Trans am, and a 98 Vette. So...how many F-bodies have you owned cody?

 

Well it wasn't my car, but it still had the stock tailpipes, mufflers, cats, y-pipe, headers and stock airfilter. It also had dealer plates and paper tags on the window when it was strapped to the dyno. It was an 02 1LE silver z28...There are a lot of folks on LS1tech that have dynoed over 300rwhp stock... Unless you want to claim every single one of them are lying as well?

 

YA!!! lol

 

Look, I am not trying to say anyone is lying. But in order to make that claim that a model of car was underrated, I think that it should be fairly consistent and since I have yet to be next to one or own one that has stock dyno'd more than 285 horse at the wheels...it is kind of hard to call it under rated.

I am a member over at LS1.com as well and trust me...most of those guys making the claims that they have dyno'd over 300 horse"Stock" are...yes...Full of ****. It is too easy to go on a forum and Claim 300 horse...to show a dyno chart that isn't even yours...just too many variables there. LT1's and LS1's were all I did since they came out in 93. I was in this arguement with someone else on this forum and will tell you the same thing I told him. We can always get LS1speed or New Era Performance to come on the site and clear up the **** smell in the air? All you need do is ask?

I am not callnig you a liar...nope...just saying I don't believe you. Again I can get one of the guys from the above places to clear up this "myth" for you if you would like??

They probably dyno at least 10 of these cars a day...especially LS1Speed out of schaumberg IL, that is all they work with is LS1's and LT1's....just let me know. Better to do that for you than to have another person going around spreading a "myth" that simply isn't true. Or making claims off what a 23 year old says he dyno'd.

So I am not trying to be an ass at all I promise. I have even offered to get you all the proof you want (and will be more than happy to do what I said). My point being...you should be careful flaming someone or calling them out..especially when you are comparing..."I've stood next to!"...to "I have owned, stood next to, dyno'd, worked on, and modded."

 

Thats cool that they let you open it up to see the airfilter and crawl under the car to examine it so closely! For not being you car..they sure were nice to you to let you do all that.

 

Oh don’t worry I am not at all insinuating that you are being a jerk at all. It’ all in good debate! I’m not at trying to shove my opinions down anyone else’s throat either lol. In fact, after reading your posts and mine I think my view of what you point is might be a little different. My opinion is that the F-bodies (Camaro and Firebird—LS1 equipped ones of course) were under-rated in that GM rated them at 305hp at the fly-wheel when first introduced in 1998 while the 1997 Corvette which was rated at 340hp at the fly-wheel. In terms of the LS1 as an engine itself, if that is of course what you are meaning, then I agree with you that it isn’t under-rated because it usually did produce a wheel hp rating that would reflect the Corvettes advertised horsepower/torque. However, I think GM under-rated the F-bodies because even at a dyno of 280rwhp using a conservative 15% drive train loss that still equates to roughly 322hp fly-wheel horsepower. I’ve never owned an LS1 vehicle or an F-body for that matter, but I worked at Conley’s as a helper when I was 17 and I saw LS1’s dyno there on a weekly basis and that’s just what I personally experienced. As far as the 1LE is concerned, they swapped his y-pipe and catback out for an aftermarket one as well as replaced the lid and filter for an SLP unit to record the gains.

I’m not at all trying to change your mind, just throwing my opinion out there. Despite whether or not they are under-rated the fact remains they were some incredible performers right out of the box at the track.

 

ahhh...I see your point. I do agree with you.

Again, it is nice to debate with someone who actually "debates" their point instead of getting pissed off and personally attacking someone.

 

So yesterday im going down the highway and get stopped at a stop light - and I notice theres an ss/sc in the turn lane next to me . . . and he starts revving like none other . . .

I hate how people start revving when they are safe a secure in the turn lane . . .or going the oppisite direction . . . to bad he wasnt at the light with me . . . i would have shown him my taillights LoL - some people are so lame

One night on my way home - I was at a stop light in the turn lane - and heading the oppisite direction was this riced out eclipse - he was stopped at the stop light) - I could him him revving from all the way across the intersection -
so he got his green light and peels out - thinks hes hot **** (We were pretty much the only ones on the road) - I was still stuck at the turn lane stop light - So i blow the red light - pull a u-turn and chase after him - we got stoped at the next light - and when he realized it was me next to him he bought **** himself . . . and through the next 3 lights - i could not get him to race . . . its stupid . . . . i hate stupid people

 

haha...way to vent j8

but I agree with you.

 

Irrating . . .and then when you do actually line up with someone - they never wanna go . . . .

oh well - its not like I need to risk getting tickets

 

you wussies ther is no debate here... you think this is the debate section??? get mad... throw temper tantrums bang on your keyboards there is no debate lol

theres never many "debates" around anymore it makes me all warm inside i wanna cry

 

My cousins SRT 4 is black.
Stock srt 4 hits 15 pounds of boost, Stock SS with 3.0' Also hits 15,
Now i have engine mount for upgraded traction so i beat him from a dig or on the track, but from a roll we are dead even. At high speeds like around 130 it looks like im almost looks like i start to pull.

Again he is completely stock at 15psi with KN filter, I have the 3.0" which also puts me at 15 psi and a Kn filter. At the same boost the SS and SRT 4 are evenly matched. But STOCK to STOCK with the SS coming with only 12.5 the Srt 4 wins ( or should win ) every time. However a Stage 2 SS should beat a SRT 4 every time.