metroplex

I have a 09 SS/TC with stock suspension, but I installed the 3-bar MAPs and have tuned it for about 20 psi. My trap speed is roughly 108 mph in the 1/4 mile, but my ET's are terrible. I'm normally used to drag racing cars with V8/RWD powertrains and can feel my way in getting a consistent launch technique. But the lack of traction and massive wheelhop from the Cobalt is terrible. The wheelhop is so bad that my rear view mirror will change positions wildly after each pass.

I read about OTTP's rotated trans mounts being THE solution due to the stock axles being unaligned from the get-go. I also found threads about using footballs for the rear springs, traction rods/straps, etc... A few people mentioned Ingalls parts were useless, and that the only parts that eliminated wheelhop were the OTTP rotated mounts.

Are there any how-to threads for installing the rotated mounts, bushing inserts, etc? What's the low-down on exactly what I need? Do I want the Stage 1, 2, or 3 OTTP rotated kits, and what's the pros/cons with each?

My goal is to reduce wheelhop as much as possible to improve takeoff traction, but I'm not limiting the car to pure drag racing. I also plan to participate in SCCA/autocrossing and road courses. So the car will be raced in the 1/4 mile and on road courses, and should be 100% streetable which means going over speed bumps, bumpy roads, etc... and not introduce insane amounts of vibration into the cabin.

Thanks in advance

63 Nova SS

iTrader: (3)

My 2 cents- go with Powell for rotated trans mounts and also install his rear control arm bushings. Absolutely do not stay in the throttle under wheel hop it kills your trans and can hurt axels. Don't use launch control, slip clutch off the line at about 3,000 rpm. Tires make a huge difference and can aggravate wheel hop. Are you wanting to do this cheap or do you have money to spend? The cabs and mounts will help you in everything you mentioned.

Snail_SS

iTrader: (3)

That^ if you go with ottp the only difference between stages or at least from 2 to 3 is he adds the upper transmissions mount. I have all 3 mounts from ottp so I guess you can say I have ottp stg 3 mounts (i didnt buy them together) they are really good and plant the power. I'm also running both L & T CABS from ottp it's a good set up (but the tcabs didn't last long I need to replace them as they are torn after 1yr or so and I don't even track the car but I do take turns at higher speeds). I daily my car fyi

metroplex

I'm trying to limit the budget, but if the part is worthwhile, I don't mind spending more. I'm looking for the most bang for the buck.
So which rotated mounts are needed? All 3 (front, rear, upper)? Which control arm bushings are needed? Just the rear on both sides?

What's the diff between the Powell and OTTP mounts?

Snail SS: Why did the CAB tear?

I just looked up the leading and trailing control arm bushings, and I'm not a fan of using Delrin or spherical bushings on a street car. I'm not out to break speed records or road course records, just trying to reduce/eliminate wheelhop when launching at the strip or when going WOT on the street and being able to autocross or race on a road course.

Snail_SS

iTrader: (3)

I'm not to sure why it did since my whole suspension is new, the stg 2 should be more than enough to reduce/eliminate the wheel hop or in powell I think he only made a stg 1.

You just need the tcabs I would go with powell for those . Ottp is the only one I think that offers the lcabs and they are a delrin/ stainless combo

metroplex

The TCABS seem to be a spherical design, I'd imagine the ride would be extremely rough and they wouldn't last long on Michigan roads due to the craters we call potholes?

Which rotated mounts do I absolutely need? I saw some complaints about Stage 2 OTTP causing excessive vibration at idle, much more so than Stage 1. What's the wheelhop reduction factor for each of the Stages?

Why didn't GM align the axles from the factory?

Snail_SS

iTrader: (3)

It doesn't vibrate at idle. Only when starting to move and it's not alot alot. When it gets sorta bad is when the a/c is on, if your roads are bad just do the tcabs, it won't make ride bad

Sl0wbaltSS

A zzp front trans mount will solve most of it, plus you get a little bit of a racecar vibration inside.

07MetallicSC

iTrader: (16)

this right here

metroplex

I contacted Powell and he just asked me to contact Gloria without providing any recommendations or advice on what parts to go with, which makes me suspicious.

Why didn't GM align the axles correctly from the get-go? I see they have a wheel hop kit for the pre-LNF Cobalts which consists of some axles and the front and rear mounts. But I have no idea if the GM kit has the rotated mounts. It makes no sense for them to shave a penny if it solves a major issue.

So which rotated mounts and whose mounts do I want to use? I read at least 2 people that still had wheel hop with Powell's mounts, and this was on a naturally aspirated Cobalt and that stumped Powell.

I also read about OTTP's bushings on the mounts failing after a year, and just telling people to buy replacement bushings (which are for sale on their web site).

Are the rotated mounts one of those solutions looking for more problems? If the motor is tilted forward, does everything else clear properly (hoses/lines/harnesses/etc). The Cobalt already rattles and vibrates like crazy, it doesn't need more vibration. I have only 6000 miles on mine and it sounds worse than a 2000 Crown Vic that has been used as a daily driver.

63 Nova SS

iTrader: (3)

You already have an lnf so if you go with Powell you keep your rear trans mount but add a spacer under it that is furnished. Then you change the front trans mount. He gives you instructions and if you have questions a lot of us on this page run his stuff, because it's well engineered. Can't comment on Ottp although I think they use a different bushing. ZZP makes a nice looking mount set but they vibrate more and aren't rotated. The control arm bushings require you to pull the arm off and have them pressed out/in. Those 2 mods will work miracles.

metroplex

How mandatory are the control arm bushings for wheelhop reduction?

Thinking over the wheelhop, I had wheelhop only when launching at the drag strip with what looks like VHT prepped surface.

When I practiced using launch control on an unprepped surface, I just got a lot of wheelspin off the line and no wheelhop at all although the car did try to violently move towards the right.

Would the rotated mounts reduce the torque steer effect (moving to the right) in a straight line launch?

calo247

powell parts are awesome!

the only reason people have problems with powell mounts its because they wont follow the instructions to get the mounts balanced properly. if done right there is no additional vibration over stock.

metroplex

How does it affect the A/C lines, shifter cables, coolant hoses, and other fluid lines? If it is tilting the engine forward, I'd imagine there would be clearance issues since they never designed the packaging with the rotated mounts in mind - understanding that the engine moves around, but there's a difference between moving around and permanently shifted.

63 Nova SS

iTrader: (3)

I had no issue with any lines or cables. You are only tilting it a little. Torque steer is what you are talking about with moving 1 way. I can honestly tell you I have 0 torque steer since installing the mounts and rear cabs and I am at about 380whp. I did before, but don't now. I hold onto the steering wheel with a couple of fingers launching the car.

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

Powell is a busy guy and this topic has literally been beaten to death. Ask Gloria for a quote on the stage 1 trans mounts and tcabs for an lnf.

Gm engineered the cars subframe and suspension for an automatic, then grabbed an old Saab transmission and threw it in there. More cobalts are autos than manual, and I'm talking about all cobalts.

Gmoney06

iTrader: (1)

I have the ottp stage 1 mounts and have very little to no vibration .Only when the a/c is on as mentioned previously, even so it's not bad at all, and hardly noticeable after getting used to it .I will be doing the ottp upper trans mount and have the t cabs ready to install as well .I will say I still get some wheel hop with the mounts. But they did help a lot. My cabs are totally shot though, 130k on the stock bushings. My recommendation is pretty much the same as the rest here .Stage 1 mounts and t cabs .

double clutch

iTrader: (1)

Cant speak for the upper mount, but with my front and rear ottp mounts i have zero added vibration at any rpm, with or without ac. As long as you follow the instructions and untorque and retorque the engine mount youll be fine. I have zero wheel hop. I also have the leading and trailing bushings from ottp. Been driving on these for over a year on michigan roads with no issues. The delrin and stainless combo makes the leading virtually bulletproof. They are not completely necessary however. You can get away with just the front and rear mount with some nice sticky tires.

metroplex

How hard is it to swap out the bushings? I don't have access to a press. Will an alignment be needed? I have 6k miles on my SS TC.

63 Nova SS

iTrader: (3)

They need pressed out/in. Machine shop will do it for $20. It will need aligned most likely since you are pulling the control arm/strut/spring, Off

metroplex

I am very curious, so I just compared the front lower control arm designs on the S197 Mustang, my 2014 Taurus SHO, and the Cobalt SS/TC. I know the guys that have the Powell TCABs have nothing negative to say about them, but still I'm wondering why GM chose to use a trailing bushing that doesn't articulate properly? If you look at the leading CAB on the Cobalt, it's oriented in the same way that the trailing CABs are oriented on the Mustang (RWD) and Taurus SHO (FWD configuration, but it's AWD).

As an engineer, it seems the way the Cobalt's TCAB is designed doesn't seem to allow proper articulation and possibly binding. In fact, when the car is static, it seems like the TCAB is already being pulled at an angle at both arms. When the wheel(s) are moving up/down, that TCAB bushing must be seeing a lot of stress. I can see why Powell's spherical bushing helps, but it's like a band aid solution (to me at least) since something else is probably going to be stressed like the sub-frame. Granted, the amount of movement probably isn't a lot, but it makes you wonder when Ford is pumping out more power out of the front wheels and uses a different orientation for that trailing bushing.

Here's the SHO's front control arm and keep in mind the SHO is a front-wheel drive car, where there's a PTU in the transaxle assembly that transmits power to the rear if needed (Hence it is AWD):

http://www.chiltonlibrary.com/conten...123281_650.pdf

The Mustang uses a similar design where the bushings are oriented the same way, it seems to allow proper/unrestricted articulation during up/down movements.

Then here's the FE5 lower control arm:

http://www.chiltonlibrary.com/conten...GM/2003591.pdf

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

The control arm does not move in an up and down motion much at all from no weight to bump stop. The issue for wheel hop is once the rubber has worn over time it allows for the front to back movement at the trailing joint. They essentially selected an incorrect rubber for the bushing or just say to hell with it this is good enough

metroplex

That doesn't make any sense. The control arm should be able to move up/down, and not bind at the trailing bushing. The fact the Cobalt's stock bushing is already flexing when static doesn't instill confidence in the design.

Ford has been using the design in the PDF I posted since 1979 in the Fox chassis, S197, Panther platform, D3, etc... and I've had the original 1981 bushings in my T-bird without any problems.

metroplex

That doesn't make any sense. The control arm should be able to move up/down, and not bind at the trailing bushing. The fact the Cobalt's stock bushing is already flexing when static doesn't instill confidence in the design. A spherical TCAB would articulate better.

Ford has been using the design in the PDF I posted since 1979 in the Fox chassis, S197, Panther platform, D3, etc... and I've had the original 1981 bushings in my T-bird without any problems, binding, failure, wear, etc... and it is driven through harsh winters.

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

It doesnt move much at the trailing cab, out at the ball joint it does. And again its GM spec of a sub-par material and the front end of a T-bird has different forces than the front end of a fwd