Any 2.2's out there replaced their front sway bar and if so did you do it yourself.. im looking to do so and im tryin to gauge how hard it is.

 

I was looking at mine today when I was rotating my tires. It looks like if you pull the front sub frame you should be able to sneak the sway bar out. it shouldn't be too hard, but it wouldn't be a walk in the park either.

The real question is it even worth it? a sway bar of an ss/sc will give you less body roll and for normal driving, changing lanes on the highway and those sorts of things I think it would make the car feel better. But it would also induce more under steer.

with the stock factory bar up front and a progress sway bar in the rear I don't see the balance getting much better. I would like to get a rear end from a 2.4 to use its larger sway bar, in addition to the progress to really fine tune it, but thats too much work and money for too little gain.

I really think a bigger front sway bar, without a bigger sway bar in the back, and i'm talking ss/sc rear end plus a progress sway bar would be counterproductive when really pushing on the car.

 

From what I hear the rear sway is a cake walk but the front is really tough. I mean if you are determined enough I'm sure it can be done, it will just take some time and dedication.

 

bigger in front wouldnt be what your after, larger rear smaller front is the norm and for a good reason. It keeps the front end a little looser so it will give a little bit while stiffening up the rear end, this will induce more oversteer, which is what most you guys are looking for.

so in short - progress rear sway in back is the best option

 

I know what you mean... thats the reason i am asking about this.. I want to order the Progress rear sway bar and the SS/SC front sway or the Suspension Tech Kit. The rear i heard is a piece of cake to install... i just wanted to see how bad the front would be to see if i should just get it all installed somewhere or try to do it myself

 

Its doable, probably a good 4 hour job with the right tools, maybe a little less.

But really, I don't think it would be worth it, Unless you only want a solid feeling car under normal conditions. but if you do that and start pushing the car to its limits you will wish you hadn't done it.

The beauty of the rear sway is you lose most all under steer, there is still a slight amount but very little. Its possible to induce over steer without using the brakes with a rear sway bar. A heavy front sway bar will undo everything the rear sway bar did, as far as balancing under steer and over steer.

 

just upgrade your front endlinks... keep stock bar and add a rear sway, thats what im doin... check out bwoody

 

I did the SS/SC Front bar in my LS.

Had to loosen the front subframe bolts, remove bolts for the rear motor/transmount and subframe, and drop the Rear motor mount, remove the steering shaft bolt, drop the subframe about 6 inches. Out and in reverse order.

Granted all this was done on a lift also. About and hour and a half after the wheels were off.

 

I have the Progress swaybar and the car feels more balanced, but it still pushes a little. My car now has zero body roll in low speed turns.

FYI

For those who don't know, the LS/LT don't have a rear sway bar, they only have a torshion beam.

 

It's higher speed emergency manuvers that will catch up to you.

Go load up in a turn, and just tap the brake pedal. Last time I did, for a dog in the road I was watching where I was going through the side glass. (on dry pavement at about 60)

In the wet amplifies the problem. Mild/LIttle Understeer is safe, and more controled, Do both bars. You dont heve RWD to power correct once you slide. Once the tires let go, your going the wrong end first.

 

Neither do the ss and ss/sc. They have a larger torsion bar running through the triangle shaped piece in the rear end. They all 3 have different sizes though. 2.2's being the smallest, 19mm if i remember correctly. 2.4's are bigger, I think 22mm and the 2.0 is the biggest, i'm pretty sure they are 24mm. so there is a significant difference between the three.

As far as where the balance should be, idealy you want a perfect balance where you can have oversteer just as easly as you can have under steer. But that makes the car much less forgiving and dangerous for someone that doesn't know how to handle the car. Thats why most every car out there is designed to push through turns, much more than they should, just to keep people more safe.

Take the time to really learn how to handle the car in unusual sitations, both emergency and intentional, and you'll find out pretty quickly that a well balanced car is very important, but it has a steep learning curve.

if you were going sideways trying to avoid a dog because you were braking then look at what you did wrong. with a progress sway bar in the back its possible to get some oversteer normally. you hit the brakes, which transfers weight to the front wheels, so the back end is now light. then you turned, while you had very little weight in the back, and you lost control. That isn't the cars fault (I've done it a few times myself, its the only way to learn) I don't know the situation you were in but there are a lot of ways you could have kept under control in that situation, but they are all against your natural instincts. lifting off the gas, not touching the brakes and turning would have kept you under control, i'm guessing the dog could have been avoided by driving around him. you even could have done the exact same thing you did, but a little less braking to keep some more weight on the rear tires, then as soon as it feels like the rear end is going its own way get back on the throttle to plant the rear end. Its unnatural but it works.

Personaly I wouldn't trade balance for understeer, even if its a little easier to drive.

 

Denn the point you bring up is exactly right, and in the situation, things just took over.

My point is a lot of people on here this is their first car, first new car, or first attempt at modding, hence the question posed, and don't have that much experience about correction.

Secondly, Not having ABS, and the alignment setup I have even though running wider tires, does not a good balance make. The main issue being the brake balance from the factory, to witch I have dialed back the the self adjusters on the drums so they do not grab as early.

Also note that the front bar was done after this incident

I've spun enough cars on enough autocross courses, and a few on the street. (one unfortunatly into a telephone pole, bald rear tires in the wet, dumb I know)

Predictibility is the word here, I understand practice I understand reading hte car and how it reacts. You cannot predict an emergency situation, you cannot predict how much water is on a road, and no amount of seat time prepares you for the unforseen.

Im not patronising or being condisending, plaese dont take it that way.

But the only thing I did was react and tap the brakes and it severly upset the car. Any novice driver or someone getting the feel for the car after spending $130 on a sway bar could easly make the same mistake and find themselves in a ditch or up aginst a tree.

 

I absolutely agree, the setup I have, which sounds like its more or less the same that you had, is not the most forgiving, and to a new driver it really could be too much of a handful. I'm not trying to scare anyone off, I don't mean driving my car is like trying to control a 600 hp rwd car on cheap street tires (i did that for a while, not fun but teaches you a LOT about control)

I don't have abs either, My first few times autocrossing the car ended with me going sideways a few times until I figured out exactly what I can get by with (same no ABS problem you have), and what I can't. Even knowing what to do, a new car is always a new learning experience, luckly for me i got to learn it in a parking lot, I had a lot of buffing to do the next day, but its a small price to pay.

Even though you can't predict the unexpected, you can still prepare for it. experience won't solve every problem, but it will go a lot farther than anything else, even a car that practically drives its self.

is the pic in your signature at kirkland afb? I was there about a month ago and didn't see anywhere that looked open enough for an autocross.

 

You guys seem much more experienced with suspension and handling then I am so let me pose you this question.

Right now I have an LTZ FE1 suspension with a DC Sports Strut Bar and in a few weeks I'll have SS/SC FE5 springs installed. What else if anything would you recommend for my car? I'm not looking to auto-x or have a car thats tough to control on the streets in dangerous situations, I just want something that handles well and go hit the curves aggressively when I need it to.

 

New River Airstation, Jacksonville NC. out on the v-22 taxi way
www.ncrscca.com

Do the springs, get better tires. Don't buy those cheap nikangs or fuzions crap like that.

Tires are everything, the suspenstion works to take full advantage of the grip thats available. The best suspension setup in the world (if there is such a thing) fails if you can't grip the road.

I use Sumitomo (made by dunlop) HTR 200's 225/50-15's on stock steelrims. They're on my sig there when I was running a street tire.

Heres the link to the tires.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....e1=yes&place=2

 

So Blktrax you suggest upgrading the front sway bar along with the addition of the rear sway. Im not a new driver and consider myself to be a good driver(as most do) Im really looking to get rid of the body roll on my car as there are a lot of curves around here to have more fun driving on if that body roll was decreased... im really just tryin to see if the replacement for the front makes a noticeable difference. Also what springs are you running?

 

Do the springs first - lowers center of gravity = less body roll
Do the front bar second. - stiffens front end where most weight is, and weight transition is.
Do the rear bar last. - pulls the rear end down for even flatter cornering.


Eibach Prokit spings
FE5 Front swaybar
Progress Rear Bar.

 

COOL that was the plan... appreciate the help!

 

Ok so now I need to find a front sway from a 2.4 or 2.0....

 

Crate engine depot has them for $30 something.

 

kool, thanks tonio. I got your message about tune time... i also talked to mrgoodwrench on here and he told me he would reflash my comp if i brought it up to him in maine

 

2.0 otherwise known as teh FE5 Suspension

 

yeah im ordering mine from crate engine depot

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...P1661C188.aspx

Everything comes to about 70 with the clamps and insulators

 

sweet. 7 let me know how the install goes... as you can see my next mod is the bank account mod. but I am thinking of doing this.

 

Orng.... i got the same mod going on now lol I had a 98 Chevy blazer i sold to a friend of a friend and dude hasnt been paying me my money.. so i will either come into some money soon or get BACK into my truck lol.. I will let you know when i get this done.. it will probaby be towards the end of the month as im tryin to order my strut bar and springs now. I MAY attempt the install of the front sway bar on my own but i most like will have to just get it done somewhere.