The NEW 1.5" "XXX" Sway Bar
 

I just installed the new Powell Racing - "XXX" - 1.5" rear sway bar. I've included a few photos to demonstrate and compare:

Three sway bars: Left to Right - "XXX" 1.5" Bar, "Hardcore" 1.25" Bar, Progress 22mm Bar.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...842/3-bars.jpg

Same three but 'end-on' for comparison.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...thervendor.jpg

"XXX" Bar mounted - Center, Left, Right, and complete.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...CenterView.jpg

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...gKoniShock.jpg

(Eiback ProKit springs - I'm driving to Nevada next week and need a better ride, I don't want to get pounded by the autocross suspension - race springs are shown down the page.)

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...gKoniShock.jpg

(Custom bent 3" ID cat back exhaust system on left.)

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...ackmuffler.jpg

Here are the autocross springs: Eibach 2.5" ID coilover springs - 700 lb fronts & 650 lb rears; Koni strut cartridges and Koni shocks on the rear (note the earlier photos); Ground Control coilover kit; modified B&G camber plates (drilled and tapped to accept the larger diameter Koni cartridges).

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...esmodified.jpg

Enjoy,
Scott

good shit

Nice ..you should do a Write up on that suspension setup

Damn that thing is huge! Way more than most people will ever need

Perhaps I'll take a bunch more photos some time and describe everything in the suspention -- I've done it multiple times but without photos.

I'd have to show my 10 sets of coilover springs to admit all the experimentation I've done over the past several years, I even have NASCAR type spring rubbers from trying to make 'regular' springs work -- and I've admitted to owning three different sway bars...

Here are a couple photos from the Houston SCCA National Tour event - on the Hardcore bar, only 550 lb springs front and rear, and the car was sitting about 3/4" higher than it does now (it's 1000 miles from Colorado to south of Houston, I needed a little clearance). The photos aren't great, they're from my cell phone camera, but it gives you an overview. The tires are my smaller 255/35 x 18 Hoosiers, I left the 285s at home for this trip.

(The logo on the hood and behind the doors is from Copperhead Road, a club in Colorado Springs that helps cover my costs - specifically, they're getting me four new slicks before the SCCA Nationals.)

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...romHouston.jpg

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...ur-Mar2011.jpg

Scott

So, BG camber plates on Koni cartridges ehh??

I NEED this bar! But, the season has started and all play money goes to seat time right now. Looking forward to your opinion after your first event with it. Thanks for the updates

whats the cost of making that setup minus the konis doing that with the camber plates...eibach and a tc strut

The front GC suspension is ugly, but it works, and works quite well. I should have added that I have Torrington bearings under (between the spring and the GS kit) the springs up front to prevent spring bind under load.

I've only driven around town so far no the bar (some in the snow) and it's nice - but, as I mentioned, I'm about to do a road trip and I switched to my ProKit springs for the long ride. The wheels are one of a couple of sets of 17" wheels I have left over from my Redline - and they clear the Brembos - using 235/45 x 17 Kumhos.

The B&Gs work well. It took a lot of care to drill and tap everything to allow the Koni 14mm shaft, but it turned out well. You can buy the B&G plates separately.

I'm thinking seriously about buying some of the new Goodyear 275/35 x 18s (DOT legal slicks intended to compete heads up with Hoosier for the autocross market) before the Nationals. I've heard good things about them...

Scott

When I bought my B&Gs, I think they were about $200 - I'm not sure how much they are today, but probably close.

You'd have to measure/figure out how big the TC bolt hole is and then (most likely) drill and tap the B&Gs to fit. I'm pretty sure they're around 12mm. It's hard to drill a nice straight hole so I suggest going to a machine shop or similar and have them to the drilling and tapping by machine to get a perfect fit.

Scott

Camber plates added to the fall shopping list, gonna stay off coilovers as long as possible.

Will be interesting to see who has the guts to make the switch to the Goodyears.

now you just need to climb pikes peak and set a record %_%

tis a nice setup....i cant wait to see all the morons who buy the bar because of the name.....all i can say is inexperiance + wet conditions equals crash crash crash lol.

looks good man. hopefully the bar gets you where you need to be.

good write up Scott. I have modified "ground control" camber plates to use in grand am cobalt builds, and I am making a set for an auto x er as we speak.

I am not a fan of Koni's but they may be the way to go especially if they take what they learned in Koni grand am racing and give us that valving.

the next step will be an adjustable rear set up, will talk about that when its done....good luck , nice clean car 4 sure....

Adjustable sway bar, adjustable alignment?? Anything adjustable on the rear would be so great.

^^^ nice car in the sig is it wingless? (*I hope*)

no its not.....thats the one with 17x9s 255s

nope, still rockin the highrise for the placebo effect on track :)

I'm sure I'll go wingless one day, boy racer look on the street is gettin old.

unfortunately i am too...will be changing that soon with the most badass piece ever.

mmm, big bar is big...too big for my needs, but theres a few people on here that will put it to good use

UPDATE - Initial Report
 

So I got the XXX on the car wednesday morning and it had been raining and snowing that morning (as you tell by the pictures - driveway's still wet). I took the car out and 'threw it around' a bit just to see how it handled - in the SNOW AND RAIN. I then drove it back and forth to work yesterday (sunny and warm) and today (overcast and threatening).

1) I drove it in the rain and snow, and pitched the car both ways just to see how much (if any) excessive oversteer I got -- I got none!

2) In fact, I got some understeer on my 245/45 x 17 Hankook R-S2s on wet/snowy pavement whipping it into 360 turns at speed.

3) It felt very solid -- keeping in mind that I'm on Eibach ProKit springs, I have a front lower suspension crossbrace, I have about -1.5 degrees of negative camber at both ends, and I have replaced the rubber in the LCAs. And, to be blunt, I have a substantial amount of practice driving a Cobalt SS at its limits -- I know how a Cobalt feels when the backend is loose.

4) I'm impressed! It handles BETTER than before. It delivers a very solid, steady feeling, no indications of oversteer - even in traffic up in Denver and on the freeway at 80 - overall the best bar I used to date.

5) I've also tried a couple fast off ramps. I don't get any uncomfortable feelings at all. Because of the way it helps plant the front tires, the car feels generally steadier than it has before.

I'm sure, if someone were to be really stupid, you could make the car (any car) get out of control, but I don't think anybody would have any trouble with this bar if you're using your head even a little. I've looked for weaknesses in the 1.5" bar - oversteer, etc. - and I don't see any yet!

Personal opinion, this should have been the first bar built. It's too bad we''ve had to wait so long. Remember, we're not talking about a stiff rear bar on a rear-wheel-drive vehicle - just the opposite.

I'll add info when I get it out on an autocross course and feel it at the limit. I probably won't be able to get out until later in May.

Scott

So these bars are worth it? From the pictures it looks like it would do nothing at all. But i dont understand how suspension works. :|

Apparently you have the front beefed up enough to counter any added rear stiffness. Front shocks and springs are really substantial and are more than a *match* for what you have on the rear set up.
That front lower brace certainly makes the front very stiff as well. This doesn't surprise me...after all, you have FWD to boot. Nice feedback!

haha hmm already have hardcore do i need the xxx hmm lol well see

lol someone needs to read up on suspension basics...

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/d...L_WUT_PEAR.jpg

Lean Less: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine Articles

No wise guy comments from me... Here's a good website that can take you though a lot of suspension info -- Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - ATW Home Page I have used this site, and several others, a bunch. I have done lots of personal research on handling in general, front wheel drives in particular. It isn't mysterious, it's science. I've experimented over the past 6-8 years attempting to make my Cobalt SS (and before the Cobalt, a couple of Saturn Ion Redlines) competitive at the National level in SCCA autocrossing. I've read, studied, and then bought and installed various parts, piece at a time.

To be brief, as the car leans in a turn (and it leans more as you drive faster/turn harder), the swaybar is pushing against the lean (using the entire weight of the car) and attempting to keep the car straight and level at all times (despite the turn). The bigger the bar, the harder it pushes -- the less the lean, you get the idea.

American cars - both FWD and RWD - are usually configured to 'push' (meaning that the front tires slide/push sideways) at the edge of traction in a corner (has nothing to do with straight-line stopping). It's very 'safe' for the average (which means typically lousy) driver. It's also slow in the turns. Adding a very stiff rear swaybar to an otherwise 'pushing' car, can make it 'oversteer' - the backend will come out at the edge (rather than 'pushing') - and that can be dangerous/difficult for the 'average' driver (like my 89-year-old-mother). Generally, having a car that 'can' oversteer is faster.

Swaybars alone, will not completely change the handling of a stock car -- springs, shocks, bushings, braces, wheels, tires, camber and toe changes, etc., etc. -- all have a part, but a swaybar is probably the most effective single thing you can do. So that's the short of it.

And you have to use common sense as in everything else.

FWD (sorry, Front Wheel Drive) cars are worse at pushing that RWD cars. If I'm cornering with a powerful RWD car and I stand on the gas, the back tires spin and the car oversteers dramatically (with tires smoking -- whee -- 360s). If I'm cornering with a powerful FWD car (like my Stage I, 280+ HP Cobalt SS) and I stand on the gas, the front tires spin and the car pushes even more than before - a lousy, slow corner. I'm trying to get to the point where I can stand on the gas in a corner and the front tires stick and I just accellerate through the corner. A stiff rear sway on a FWD car tends to make the fronts really stick better (at least that has been my experience) and I can really put the power on the ground. On the other hand, if I'm driving the car on the edge in a fast sweeper, or in a fast slalom section where I'm rapidly changing directions and throwing the car side-to-dide, because everything is so stiff, the rear end can slide out (if I do it right it's a nice drift) and I can again step on the gas and power through the corner.

However, I admit to spinning my car more than once on an autocross course - either swapping ends or doing a 270+. The SCCA rule for a spin is "both feet in" - which means clutch and brake until everything stops moving - then put is back in gear and go. I don't drive on the edge on the street - too many cops, way too expensive (tickets), too many 'average' driver people, but I do enjoy the great handling that comes along with the many suspension mods.

A friend of mine, an 'average' driver, who owns a newish (2-year-old) Subaru WRX (not an STI), co-drove my car at an autocross event recently - his very first time EVER driving anything competitive - and I had him drive a little around on the street in street-trim (not on the big wheels and the slicks) just to get the feel of the car. He ended up being 18th out of 36 'rookie' drivers (he drove alone and he rode along with me a couple runs to see how fast he could really go) - pretty good first time out - he attributed it totally to the car. He said: "Your car is really easy to drive fast, it really sticks; it was the car, it wasn't me". He caught me yesterday at work and said: "The handling on my car really sucks (his WRX)! I didn't know it before, not until I drove your car. How can I make my car handle better? What do I need to buy?"

Interesting what a little knowledge does for you... Sorry about the long answer.

Scott

If I were you, yes, I'd get one. Scott

If you think the bars do nothing your soooooooo wrong.

^^^ who implied that?

I found the rigidity of the hardcore bar highly over exaggerated, seems this my wind up being similar.

Cranemaster....but like he saidhe knows nothing about suspension lol.

scottherbert..... VERY VERY VERY good post!!!

gotch. We were all there at one point as long as people are willing to learn

Love the Dennis Grant stuff, Scott. Here's some more good info Chassis Newsletter - Evil Twin Motorsports

Yep this site needs more education. Im on a phone so I can't post a novel. Scott got it well covered

@scottherbert

Thanks for the info and long reply, I had this idea because are cars are one of the best handling stock fwd I've driven that it already had a sway bar'esq system in it. I installed a(cheap eBay) sway bar on my civic and it helped a lot, but the suspension on my civic loooked nothing like my cobalts.

glad to hear it!

I wasn't intending to insult your intelligence, I just didn't know how much you already knew...

Except for the rear end, the Cobalt is very much like the Civic (or any other FWD car for that matter) -- struts, Lower control arms, shocks, etc. Where the suspension is located, how stiff it is (springs mostly), how good the shocks are, how stiff the swaybars are, how 'flexible' the suspension components are, etc., these all make differences - but in reality, the basic suspension 'rules' are the same.

How the 'rules' get applied from vehicle-to-vehicle, are where the successful people get ahead.

Scott

exactly. its not an insult. no one knows how much anyone knows....considering you said you had no idea about the suspension on this car he gave you some good reading material. dont buy ebay parts for this car and buy the right suspension parts. theres a lot of bs copys on here made from worse materials and theres also a lot of unknowledgeable people on here that think certain setups are great for a road coarse or autox they fail miserably.

So this being said would you also recommend skipping hardcore and going straight to the XXX?

haha as far as ive heard if you dont know how to drive or dont auto x or do time attack you wont ever need/use the xxx hardcore will be just fine