Suspension and brake facts (FE1, FE3, FE5, J41, JM4, JL9)
11-10-2008, 02:15 PM
#26
First post should be updated to reflect the fact that the FE3 and FE5 have different LCA's. All IRL's have FE3 BTW, they didn't get updated in 2005 or even 2007.
Weight difference netween the FE3 LCA's and FE5's is 2.2 lbs, with the FE5 arms being both lighter and stiffer/stronger. And yes, they will bolt directly to FE3 equipped cars. The double slot clamp is for the front sway bar, the arms will work fine with the FE3 swaybar (you cannot add the FE5 swaybar without upfgrading the clamp/block).
Anyone know if the LSJ cars master cylinder is similar/same in size to the LNF cars? I am debating getting the new factory setup vs an aftermarket big brake upgrade for my '05 IRL.
Weight difference netween the FE3 LCA's and FE5's is 2.2 lbs, with the FE5 arms being both lighter and stiffer/stronger. And yes, they will bolt directly to FE3 equipped cars. The double slot clamp is for the front sway bar, the arms will work fine with the FE3 swaybar (you cannot add the FE5 swaybar without upfgrading the clamp/block).
Anyone know if the LSJ cars master cylinder is similar/same in size to the LNF cars? I am debating getting the new factory setup vs an aftermarket big brake upgrade for my '05 IRL.
11-10-2008, 04:27 PM
#28
No, I meant FE3, as in Ion Redline front suspension. The FE3 lower control arms are steel instead of alloy, weigh 2.2 lbs more, and aren't as stiff. That would be why IRL owners who really intend to track their cars switch to the CSS FE5 LCA's. 
From Maven's post above:
I have verified this twice with dealership parts departments and a well known GM FWD chop shop. Numerous IRL owners have made the switch and report the difference upon recieving the new arms, and one guy finally weighed them for us. 
From Maven's post above:
FE3
Lower control arms: 15787556/15787555( L/R, aluminum, NOT the same as FE5)
FE5
Lower control arm: 15803766/15803767( L/R, right same as LNF)
Lower control arms: 15787556/15787555( L/R, aluminum, NOT the same as FE5)
FE5
Lower control arm: 15803766/15803767( L/R, right same as LNF)
11-10-2008, 04:56 PM
#29
The double slot clamp is for the front sway bar, the arms will work fine with the FE3 swaybar (you cannot add the FE5 swaybar without upfgrading the clamp/block).
Anyone know if the LSJ cars master cylinder is similar/same in size to the LNF cars? I am debating getting the new factory setup vs an aftermarket big brake upgrade for my '05 IRL.
The FE3 lower control arms are steel instead of alloy
You are correct that the IRLs dont have FE5, but thats not to say they dont have comparable arms. Saturn uses FE1, FE2, FE3. Chevy uses FE1, FE3, FE5. 2004 IRLs only have two control arms(fe1 and fe2/3, all may be steel) Later cars have 3 unique arms just like Cobalts do. its hard to make a direct comparison because none of the part numbers are the same.
Last edited by Maven; 11-11-2008 at 09:36 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
11-10-2008, 05:46 PM
#30
Hmm. That is conflicting information (re steel/alloy) from what I've got. Regardless - the FE5 are different, lighter, and stiffer; so I'm going to run them and the info needs updated, lol.
My understanding is that you can run the FEW5 LCA's or the FE5 control arms, but not both. If you know otherwise, that's good info! Not that I think I need more fronst swaybar, but ya' never know - espeically with the obscene front rubber I'll have for the track setup I'm workign on (custom widebody, 9 or 10 inch wide wheels, 285 to 305 wide rubber).
Now I will look into what would be involved in swapping the master cylinder vs just keeping my rears I guess. Wouldn't mind going to thebigger/vented rear disks though...
For posterity, it also bears mentioning in this thread that the IRL's have issues wth camber plates. I haven't seen it mentioned much elsewhere, and since the first post indicates that this thread applies to all of these cars - we have a totally ghey single bolt clamshell top mounting system and the towers are rounded on top. No bolt holes for camber plates, no flat surface to drill into and mount them even if there were.
My understanding is that you can run the FEW5 LCA's or the FE5 control arms, but not both. If you know otherwise, that's good info! Not that I think I need more fronst swaybar, but ya' never know - espeically with the obscene front rubber I'll have for the track setup I'm workign on (custom widebody, 9 or 10 inch wide wheels, 285 to 305 wide rubber).
Now I will look into what would be involved in swapping the master cylinder vs just keeping my rears I guess. Wouldn't mind going to thebigger/vented rear disks though...
For posterity, it also bears mentioning in this thread that the IRL's have issues wth camber plates. I haven't seen it mentioned much elsewhere, and since the first post indicates that this thread applies to all of these cars - we have a totally ghey single bolt clamshell top mounting system and the towers are rounded on top. No bolt holes for camber plates, no flat surface to drill into and mount them even if there were.
11-10-2008, 06:06 PM
#31
Okay, youre all confused..........
How is it different info than what youve got?? You quoted MY post, which clearly states that FE3 and FE5 are both alloy. Whats confusing/conflicting is why you think all IRLs have steel lower control arms. Ive never seen an IRL with sttel arms, and most of the IRLs I see are totally stock.
Okay, what are you talking about here? You say that you think you can run FE5 LCA's or FE5 control arms, but not both. LCA stands for Lower Control Arm. They are the same part. You also mention the FE5 sway bar...... You can run the FE5 sway with any control arms. the sway bar and the control arms dont bolt to each other.
Okay, again.....stop for a second. You can install the Brembo front brakes without changing master cylinder. The only reason you should change the master is if you change the rear brakes. if you keep your rear brakes the master cylinder does not need to be changed
Neither the first post, nor any other post in this thread iindicates that this information applies to all Delta bodies. In fact it specifically states that it only directly applies to the Cobalt. The Ion and HHR are very similar but have differences which make them unique and much of this information doesnt relate driectly to them.
My understanding is that you can run the FEW5 LCA's or the FE5 control arms, but not both. If you know otherwise, that's good info! Not that I think I need more fronst swaybar,
Now I will look into what would be involved in swapping the master cylinder vs just keeping my rears I guess. Wouldn't mind going to thebigger/vented rear disks though...
.... and since the first post indicates that this thread applies to all of these cars ......:
Last edited by Maven; 11-11-2008 at 09:37 AM.
11-10-2008, 10:35 PM
#32
First part - my information indicated that the FE3 arms were steel. I am not saying it;s correct, I'm saying that's what I'd got until now. The rest oft eh paragraph is merely restating that they are differen;t, so teh first post should be moddified.
Second part - my bad, typing faster than thinking, I meant LCA's and swaybar (as you correctly deduced). I have been informed that the FE3 uses a single bolt/clamp connection and teh FE5 a different "block" and clamp with 2 bolts; one for swaybar and one for LCA. Again I am open to this being wrong, it's just what I've got from several sources on Redlineforums and elswhere. If the FE5 bar AND LCA can be used on a stock FE3 equipped car without welding in hte "block" I keep hearing about - cool! Tell me how, 'cuz I'll do it. <--- not sarcastic, sorry if it sounds that way
Third part - what you said is what I said. Worded differently - I'll have to decide whether or not it's worth upgrading the master and getting all 4 upgraded vs keeping my master as is and just upgrading teh front. Sure wouldn't mind larger, vented rear rotors, but I could live without them if the master cylinder is a bitch to swap work- and cost-wise.
Last part - the first post indicated that this info was being put forth to benifit all the cars with these suspensions, thus I included that last bit rather than being concerned with it's being off-topic for being Ion specific in what would otherwise be a Cobalt-only thread. Does that make sense, lol? Didn't want to post "off topic", but figured plenty of Ion owners would probably find this thread in teh fullness of time.
Second part - my bad, typing faster than thinking, I meant LCA's and swaybar (as you correctly deduced). I have been informed that the FE3 uses a single bolt/clamp connection and teh FE5 a different "block" and clamp with 2 bolts; one for swaybar and one for LCA. Again I am open to this being wrong, it's just what I've got from several sources on Redlineforums and elswhere. If the FE5 bar AND LCA can be used on a stock FE3 equipped car without welding in hte "block" I keep hearing about - cool! Tell me how, 'cuz I'll do it. <--- not sarcastic, sorry if it sounds that way
Third part - what you said is what I said. Worded differently - I'll have to decide whether or not it's worth upgrading the master and getting all 4 upgraded vs keeping my master as is and just upgrading teh front. Sure wouldn't mind larger, vented rear rotors, but I could live without them if the master cylinder is a bitch to swap work- and cost-wise.
Last part - the first post indicated that this info was being put forth to benifit all the cars with these suspensions, thus I included that last bit rather than being concerned with it's being off-topic for being Ion specific in what would otherwise be a Cobalt-only thread. Does that make sense, lol? Didn't want to post "off topic", but figured plenty of Ion owners would probably find this thread in teh fullness of time.
11-11-2008, 09:36 AM
#33
Senior Member
Update bump. I am still looking for the weight of the stamped steel control arms versus the aluminum ones, and the spring rates of the various different suspensions.
I'm actually stick stuck out on the road. They can't get the part they need for the plane, so I'm still sitting here in the hotel. Yeay!
Maven, we could use the part numbers of the 4*100 and 5*110 wheel hub assemblies.
I'm actually stick stuck out on the road. They can't get the part they need for the plane, so I'm still sitting here in the hotel. Yeay!
Maven, we could use the part numbers of the 4*100 and 5*110 wheel hub assemblies.
"Redline steel flca 8.4 lbs. Cobalt alloy flca 6.1 lbs."... this ends the broadcast from world headquarters
11-11-2008, 10:08 AM
#34
Second part - my bad, typing faster than thinking, I meant LCA's and swaybar (as you correctly deduced). I have been informed that the FE3 uses a single bolt/clamp connection and teh FE5 a different "block" and clamp with 2 bolts; one for swaybar and one for LCA. Again I am open to this being wrong, it's just what I've got from several sources on Redlineforums and elswhere. If the FE5 bar AND LCA can be used on a stock FE3 equipped car without welding in hte "block" I keep hearing about - cool! Tell me how, 'cuz I'll do it. <--- not sarcastic, sorry if it sounds that way
Third part - what you said is what I said. Worded differently - I'll have to decide whether or not it's worth upgrading the master and getting all 4 upgraded vs keeping my master as is and just upgrading teh front. Sure wouldn't mind larger, vented rear rotors, but I could live without them if the master cylinder is a bitch to swap work- and cost-wise.
Youll pay more for the rear brakes than you probably will for the fronts and the m/c.Thanks for that, Ive been too busy(lazy?) to put my FE5 arms back on and use a scale.
Last edited by Maven; 11-11-2008 at 10:08 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
11-11-2008, 11:22 AM
#35
Senior Member
Gotcha.....Ive been informed by someone I trust a great deal that early IRLs have steel arms. I dont know when they switched, but I "think" its 05, as the CSS has always had alloy arms.
Again, I am not sure about the IRL, but on the CSS '05 FE5 cars use the bolt/slot style clamp and '06 cars switched to 2bolts, after it was found that the 1bolt clamps can fail under heavy use. I have the FE5 bar installed in my 08 Cobalt right now, using the early 1 bolt style clamp(this is still the stock clamp on the FE1 cars) While I must admit I have never replaced a stabilizer bar on an IRL, I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the rear lower control bolt goes through the bar clamp. It doesnt on the 2nd design CSS, and it just wouldnt make any sense to do that on the IRL, looking at the service manual it doesnt appear that it does.
Work wise, its probably about 1.5 hours extra max. And I think full retail on the cylinder is only like $100. The expensive part is the rear brakes Youll pay more for the rear brakes than you probably will for the fronts and the m/c.
Yes, youre findings agree with my own extensive research that shows that the alloy controls arms offer a 27% weight savings over steel.
Thanks for that, Ive been too busy(lazy?) to put my FE5 arms back on and use a scale.
Again, I am not sure about the IRL, but on the CSS '05 FE5 cars use the bolt/slot style clamp and '06 cars switched to 2bolts, after it was found that the 1bolt clamps can fail under heavy use. I have the FE5 bar installed in my 08 Cobalt right now, using the early 1 bolt style clamp(this is still the stock clamp on the FE1 cars) While I must admit I have never replaced a stabilizer bar on an IRL, I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the rear lower control bolt goes through the bar clamp. It doesnt on the 2nd design CSS, and it just wouldnt make any sense to do that on the IRL, looking at the service manual it doesnt appear that it does.
Work wise, its probably about 1.5 hours extra max. And I think full retail on the cylinder is only like $100. The expensive part is the rear brakes
Youll pay more for the rear brakes than you probably will for the fronts and the m/c.Yes, youre findings agree with my own extensive research that shows that the alloy controls arms offer a 27% weight savings over steel.
Thanks for that, Ive been too busy(lazy?) to put my FE5 arms back on and use a scale.
The sway bar bolts to the cradle itself NOTHING to do with the cradle through bolts; the rear cradle through bolts go through the flca trailing bushing. The sway bar clamps its easy weld in an extra nut on the cradle and use the Cobalt busings and clamp. Or not. I did not. My Redline is fine. I had the cradle out last month and checked it. 38,000 miles all highway /track /hard life but put way dry...also power grid drop links, spherical jointed and delrin bushed Cobalt alloy flca, eibach springs stock shocks (Cobalt not Redline damping) big brakes etc. Cobalt drop links 9.3/4 inches center to center, Redline longer about 12 inches or just under
Last edited by qwikredline; 11-11-2008 at 01:08 PM.
11-16-2008, 01:04 PM
#43
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well i found FE3 arms for 190 for both shipped. only 5k miles on em from a 2007..... my bushings are shot and sounds like clunking for last 20k miles. i need em bad!
11-16-2008, 06:42 PM
#44
Junkyards, dismantelers, etc. Morad Parts Company out of Ohio is my personal favorite, though they are out of FE5 LCA's right now (I know 'cuz I have an order in with them). I also have "dibs" on their first Cobalt Turbo axles, brakes, knuckles and other assorted bits that aren't the engine & tranny. If they had teh LCA's I'd let miked take 'em though, he's more desperate than I am.
11-16-2008, 09:07 PM
#45
Junkyards, dismantelers, etc. Morad Parts Company out of Ohio is my personal favorite, though they are out of FE5 LCA's right now (I know 'cuz I have an order in with them). I also have "dibs" on their first Cobalt Turbo axles, brakes, knuckles and other assorted bits that aren't the engine & tranny. If they had teh LCA's I'd let miked take 'em though, he's more desperate than I am.
Morad is a good company, Ive bought from them before(my SS axle and other bits as well)
11-26-2008, 04:40 PM
#46
The 2009 Pontiac G5 GT comes with 4wheel disc brakes, it is yet another new combination of parts.
It uses the same rear brakes as all other GT/Sport/SS-SC and SS-2.4 do.
For front brakes it however DOES NOT use the 296mm rotors that were used previously on the GT/Sport/SS-SC, instead it uses the same 280mm rotors as the 5lug LT Cobalts and base G5s.
2009 also uses a different bolt pattern master cylinde that is not compatible with previous years.
It uses the same rear brakes as all other GT/Sport/SS-SC and SS-2.4 do.
For front brakes it however DOES NOT use the 296mm rotors that were used previously on the GT/Sport/SS-SC, instead it uses the same 280mm rotors as the 5lug LT Cobalts and base G5s.
2009 also uses a different bolt pattern master cylinde that is not compatible with previous years.
11-30-2008, 10:17 AM
#50
I'm old school
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