Thoughts on rear twisting beam sway bars
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 02-03-08
Posts: 3,454
Likes: 1
From: Port Perry Ontario
NOT ANYMORE LOLhe he the citation was kinda like the corvair Monza Got a bad rep but the turbo monza was a great car to beat the crap out of ditto the citation. Some guys used Citation knuckles on F5000 formula cars back in the day...thats a V8 single seater...
Last edited by qwikredline; Jan 28, 2010 at 09:23 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
New Member
Joined: 10-07-09
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: SLC, UT
GREAT write up John!!!!!! Very nice!!!! 
Hi Mike,
I would run the 24mm bar with the OTTP Rear Street bar. When it comes to sways it about balancing the chassis, bigger isn't always better. I think the 24mm bar with the OTTP 1" would give you a neutral/slight understeer feel which is great for about 95% of the population. If you drive the car on the street or at the track with street tires I wouldn't run the Hardcore personally.
The other thing you mentioned as did John is the 05' SS and 05 + LS/LT's used a 1 bolt/1 slot clamp. 06' + SS/Sport uses a 2 bolt clamp. The FE5 bushing won't fit into the LT/LS clamp as it has a hump up top that fits into the 06' + 2 bolt bracket. The options would be convert to a 2 hole set-up which will be a PITA or you could also remove the hump from the top of the 25mm bushing and it will/should fit into the 05' bracket. I would honestly do the 24mm and call it a day! We just installed one on an 06 LT and the chassis is very balanced with a rear bar similar in rate to the OTTP Street bar. It is important to remember you're trying to acheive balance so make sure you add a rear bar if you haven't already, I recommend OTTP!
Going to Eibach's or Pedders springs (much better) in the future wouldn't be a huge factor. They basically increase the front/rear rate a certain percentage. For example, if the factory rate was say 250 lbs front and 240 lbs rear they would go 265 front and 255 rear. These #'s are merely examples not specs... If you were going to custom springs and you added a ton of rear spring rate, say 250 lbs front and 300 lbs rear the larger front sway would be recommended. I would go with the SS/SC front bar and a good rear bar like the OTTP Street bar...
If I missed something please feel free to jump in! It's 1 am and I'm going to bed! LOL!
OK, quick question for the front sway...
I have an LS if you can't figure that out....I have Sportlines and will be adding SS/TC struts and shocks come summer time. I will be adding my OTT steering rack spacers at the same time. I have the OTT "street" bar (1.0")...I want to upgrade the front bar...
I know many times many people (including Maven) have mentioned the SS/SC bar (24mm)...my question is this....would the 25mm (SS/TC) bar fit?
Without searching, I kind of remember someone saying something about the 05 clamps being used on the FE1 suspension, so can I only use the LSJ sway bar and clamps and insulators? Otherwise, are there or will there be any good aftermarket matches to my setup?
The only thing that may change in my setup is eventually I may wind up with Pedders (yeah right...only if I find used ones) or something else that is somewhat similar...maybe the Pro-kit. Will the springs themselves have a big effect on the choice of sway bar for the front?
Thanks for any and all help.
Mike
I have an LS if you can't figure that out....I have Sportlines and will be adding SS/TC struts and shocks come summer time. I will be adding my OTT steering rack spacers at the same time. I have the OTT "street" bar (1.0")...I want to upgrade the front bar...
I know many times many people (including Maven) have mentioned the SS/SC bar (24mm)...my question is this....would the 25mm (SS/TC) bar fit?
Without searching, I kind of remember someone saying something about the 05 clamps being used on the FE1 suspension, so can I only use the LSJ sway bar and clamps and insulators? Otherwise, are there or will there be any good aftermarket matches to my setup?
The only thing that may change in my setup is eventually I may wind up with Pedders (yeah right...only if I find used ones) or something else that is somewhat similar...maybe the Pro-kit. Will the springs themselves have a big effect on the choice of sway bar for the front?
Thanks for any and all help.
Mike
I would run the 24mm bar with the OTTP Rear Street bar. When it comes to sways it about balancing the chassis, bigger isn't always better. I think the 24mm bar with the OTTP 1" would give you a neutral/slight understeer feel which is great for about 95% of the population. If you drive the car on the street or at the track with street tires I wouldn't run the Hardcore personally.
The other thing you mentioned as did John is the 05' SS and 05 + LS/LT's used a 1 bolt/1 slot clamp. 06' + SS/Sport uses a 2 bolt clamp. The FE5 bushing won't fit into the LT/LS clamp as it has a hump up top that fits into the 06' + 2 bolt bracket. The options would be convert to a 2 hole set-up which will be a PITA or you could also remove the hump from the top of the 25mm bushing and it will/should fit into the 05' bracket. I would honestly do the 24mm and call it a day! We just installed one on an 06 LT and the chassis is very balanced with a rear bar similar in rate to the OTTP Street bar. It is important to remember you're trying to acheive balance so make sure you add a rear bar if you haven't already, I recommend OTTP!
Going to Eibach's or Pedders springs (much better) in the future wouldn't be a huge factor. They basically increase the front/rear rate a certain percentage. For example, if the factory rate was say 250 lbs front and 240 lbs rear they would go 265 front and 255 rear. These #'s are merely examples not specs... If you were going to custom springs and you added a ton of rear spring rate, say 250 lbs front and 300 lbs rear the larger front sway would be recommended. I would go with the SS/SC front bar and a good rear bar like the OTTP Street bar...
If I missed something please feel free to jump in! It's 1 am and I'm going to bed! LOL!
Last edited by JDP Motorsports; Jan 28, 2010 at 03:06 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
GREAT write up John!!!!!! Very nice!!!!
Hi Mike,
I would run the 24mm bar with the OTTP Rear Street bar. When it comes to sways it about balancing the chassis, bigger isn't always better. I think the 24mm bar with the OTTP 1" would give you a neutral/slight understeer feel which is great for about 95% of the population. If you drive the car on the street or at the track with street tires I wouldn't run the Hardcore personally.
The other thing you mentioned as did John is the 05' SS and 05 + LS/LT's used a 1 bolt/1 slot clamp. 06' + SS/Sport uses a 2 bolt clamp. The FE5 bushing won't fit into the LT/LS clamp as it has a hump up top that fits into the 06' + 2 bolt bracket. The options would be convert to a 2 hole set-up which will be a PITA or you could also remove the hump from the top of the 25mm bushing and it will/should fit into the 05' bracket. I would honestly do the 24mm and call it a day! We just installed one on an 06 LT and the chassis is very balanced with a rear bar similar in rate to the OTTP Street bar. It is important to remember you're trying to acheive balance so make sure you add a rear bar if you haven't already, I recommend OTTP!
Going to Eibach's or Pedders springs (much better) in the future wouldn't be a huge factor. They basically increase the front/rear rate a certain percentage. For example, if the factory rate was say 250 lbs front and 240 lbs rear they would go 265 front and 255 rear. These #'s are merely examples not specs... If you were going to custom springs and you added a ton of rear spring rate, say 250 lbs front and 300 lbs rear the larger front sway would be recommended. I would go with the SS/SC front bar and a good rear bar like the OTTP Street bar...
If I missed something please feel free to jump in! It's 1 am and I'm going to bed! LOL!
Hi Mike,
I would run the 24mm bar with the OTTP Rear Street bar. When it comes to sways it about balancing the chassis, bigger isn't always better. I think the 24mm bar with the OTTP 1" would give you a neutral/slight understeer feel which is great for about 95% of the population. If you drive the car on the street or at the track with street tires I wouldn't run the Hardcore personally.
The other thing you mentioned as did John is the 05' SS and 05 + LS/LT's used a 1 bolt/1 slot clamp. 06' + SS/Sport uses a 2 bolt clamp. The FE5 bushing won't fit into the LT/LS clamp as it has a hump up top that fits into the 06' + 2 bolt bracket. The options would be convert to a 2 hole set-up which will be a PITA or you could also remove the hump from the top of the 25mm bushing and it will/should fit into the 05' bracket. I would honestly do the 24mm and call it a day! We just installed one on an 06 LT and the chassis is very balanced with a rear bar similar in rate to the OTTP Street bar. It is important to remember you're trying to acheive balance so make sure you add a rear bar if you haven't already, I recommend OTTP!
Going to Eibach's or Pedders springs (much better) in the future wouldn't be a huge factor. They basically increase the front/rear rate a certain percentage. For example, if the factory rate was say 250 lbs front and 240 lbs rear they would go 265 front and 255 rear. These #'s are merely examples not specs... If you were going to custom springs and you added a ton of rear spring rate, say 250 lbs front and 300 lbs rear the larger front sway would be recommended. I would go with the SS/SC front bar and a good rear bar like the OTTP Street bar...
If I missed something please feel free to jump in! It's 1 am and I'm going to bed! LOL!
here is my setup: I run H&r sport springs, ss/tc shocks (front and rear) ss/tc front sway bar, and (VERY soon to be changed) the ttr rear sway. I run that with 17" rims and nitto neogen tires. I find that i still get a bit of understeer which is NOT what i want...even on the street....Its easier to compensate for oversteer then understeer....
would it be better for me to switch to ottp hardcore or street rear bar?
New Member
Joined: 10-07-09
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: SLC, UT
i did not have success with simply removing the humb...i had to HEAVILY modify the fe5 busing from the ss/tc front sway to be put into the fe1 1 bolt/ slot setup.
here is my setup: I run H&r sport springs, ss/tc shocks (front and rear) ss/tc front sway bar, and (VERY soon to be changed) the ttr rear sway. I run that with 17" rims and nitto neogen tires. I find that i still get a bit of understeer which is NOT what i want...even on the street....Its easier to compensate for oversteer then understeer....
would it be better for me to switch to ottp hardcore or street rear bar?
here is my setup: I run H&r sport springs, ss/tc shocks (front and rear) ss/tc front sway bar, and (VERY soon to be changed) the ttr rear sway. I run that with 17" rims and nitto neogen tires. I find that i still get a bit of understeer which is NOT what i want...even on the street....Its easier to compensate for oversteer then understeer....
would it be better for me to switch to ottp hardcore or street rear bar?
I'd go with the OTTP Hardcore based on your likes and the fact you have the 25mm front bar. The reason I recommend the Street 1" rear bar for most people is they will never push their car past 7/10th's and for most the increased rate of the 1" adds balance as well as roll stiffness which makes the car much more responsive until you hit 8/10th's + and overload the front outside tire in this case creating understeer. I've seen all to often someone puts a huge rear bar in and they have serious oversteer issues in the rain or less than ideal conditions.
I'm starting with the Street bar myself as the first couple of open track days will be very cold and I'll be on street tires. I haven't had much time on the track in the SS/TC so I want to get a feel for the chassis and get R-compound tires before putting the Hardcore bar in. If someone were to take an LS/LT w/OEM front bar and add the Hardcore bar you'd have some serious oversteer as a good friend found out at an auto-x! LOL! He was actually running the TTR bar with the factory LT front. He didn't hit anything but it got out from under him.
It really comes down to your driving style and specific mods. I hope this helps and I'm sure John will chime in!
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 02-03-08
Posts: 3,454
Likes: 1
From: Port Perry Ontario
Jordan is 100% on that post , exactly.
Note on the FE1. You gotta drop the cradle and install the second bolt, the tab and single bolt fixing just yields way too much and will eventually break out. Sucks, but with an upper engine support dropping the cradle is actually easy, you dont have to undo brake lines, just hang the calipers and leave the struts. Pictures show the FE5 bracket in an early cradle, and you can see the hole to be drilled...
Note on the FE1. You gotta drop the cradle and install the second bolt, the tab and single bolt fixing just yields way too much and will eventually break out. Sucks, but with an upper engine support dropping the cradle is actually easy, you dont have to undo brake lines, just hang the calipers and leave the struts. Pictures show the FE5 bracket in an early cradle, and you can see the hole to be drilled...
New Member
Joined: 10-16-09
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
From: Myrtle Beach
GREAT write up John!!!!!! Very nice!!!!
Hi Mike,
I would run the 24mm bar with the OTTP Rear Street bar. When it comes to sways it about balancing the chassis, bigger isn't always better. I think the 24mm bar with the OTTP 1" would give you a neutral/slight understeer feel which is great for about 95% of the population. If you drive the car on the street or at the track with street tires I wouldn't run the Hardcore personally.
The other thing you mentioned as did John is the 05' SS and 05 + LS/LT's used a 1 bolt/1 slot clamp. 06' + SS/Sport uses a 2 bolt clamp. The FE5 bushing won't fit into the LT/LS clamp as it has a hump up top that fits into the 06' + 2 bolt bracket. The options would be convert to a 2 hole set-up which will be a PITA or you could also remove the hump from the top of the 25mm bushing and it will/should fit into the 05' bracket. I would honestly do the 24mm and call it a day! We just installed one on an 06 LT and the chassis is very balanced with a rear bar similar in rate to the OTTP Street bar. It is important to remember you're trying to acheive balance so make sure you add a rear bar if you haven't already, I recommend OTTP!
Going to Eibach's or Pedders springs (much better) in the future wouldn't be a huge factor. They basically increase the front/rear rate a certain percentage. For example, if the factory rate was say 250 lbs front and 240 lbs rear they would go 265 front and 255 rear. These #'s are merely examples not specs... If you were going to custom springs and you added a ton of rear spring rate, say 250 lbs front and 300 lbs rear the larger front sway would be recommended. I would go with the SS/SC front bar and a good rear bar like the OTTP Street bar...
If I missed something please feel free to jump in! It's 1 am and I'm going to bed! LOL!
Hi Mike,
I would run the 24mm bar with the OTTP Rear Street bar. When it comes to sways it about balancing the chassis, bigger isn't always better. I think the 24mm bar with the OTTP 1" would give you a neutral/slight understeer feel which is great for about 95% of the population. If you drive the car on the street or at the track with street tires I wouldn't run the Hardcore personally.
The other thing you mentioned as did John is the 05' SS and 05 + LS/LT's used a 1 bolt/1 slot clamp. 06' + SS/Sport uses a 2 bolt clamp. The FE5 bushing won't fit into the LT/LS clamp as it has a hump up top that fits into the 06' + 2 bolt bracket. The options would be convert to a 2 hole set-up which will be a PITA or you could also remove the hump from the top of the 25mm bushing and it will/should fit into the 05' bracket. I would honestly do the 24mm and call it a day! We just installed one on an 06 LT and the chassis is very balanced with a rear bar similar in rate to the OTTP Street bar. It is important to remember you're trying to acheive balance so make sure you add a rear bar if you haven't already, I recommend OTTP!
Going to Eibach's or Pedders springs (much better) in the future wouldn't be a huge factor. They basically increase the front/rear rate a certain percentage. For example, if the factory rate was say 250 lbs front and 240 lbs rear they would go 265 front and 255 rear. These #'s are merely examples not specs... If you were going to custom springs and you added a ton of rear spring rate, say 250 lbs front and 300 lbs rear the larger front sway would be recommended. I would go with the SS/SC front bar and a good rear bar like the OTTP Street bar...
If I missed something please feel free to jump in! It's 1 am and I'm going to bed! LOL!
New Member
Joined: 10-07-09
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: SLC, UT
I would go with the 24mm bar for your application personally. What rear bar are you running as that is a large factor in determining the overall package. Your 'balt will have the 1 bolt/1 slot clamp. What you'll need if you don't want to modify the front subframe is the 05' SS front brackets and off course the 05 SS bushings. Based on John's experience the 1 bolt/1 slot clamps will potentially have problems down the road. He did a nice write up above!
Thanks guys 
since i still have a set of stock ss brackets and bushings, next time im in there ill drop it down and fix that
when i do that do i need anything between the two pieces of metal? or just a hole through each side and a longer bolt/nut???
Ill have to look into picking up the ottp hardcore bar this spring/summer
and ya...i push the car into that 8-10/10ths region regularly would be nice to have it react like i want it
since i still have a set of stock ss brackets and bushings, next time im in there ill drop it down and fix that
when i do that do i need anything between the two pieces of metal? or just a hole through each side and a longer bolt/nut???
Ill have to look into picking up the ottp hardcore bar this spring/summer
and ya...i push the car into that 8-10/10ths region regularly
would be nice to have it react like i want it
Last edited by NWAE Cobalt; Jan 28, 2010 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 02-03-08
Posts: 3,454
Likes: 1
From: Port Perry Ontario
