Unboxing the Powell rear axle bushing
07-30-2012, 08:29 PM
#26
I'm old school
Thread Starter
Okay, worked on these today. I did have a problem and have talked to John about it. He should be taking a look at these pics and posting some comments that should help me out. First, installing the bushing went just fine. Just use the tool, line it up, squeeze it in.
The bushing is in two halves, so you do them separately unlike the stock part.
Now the problem I had came when I installed the bracket. Remember the whole point of this is to have a freely moving bracket. My locked up tight against the bushing when I torqued it.
By the way, I know the bracket is upside down there. But I didn't see it as a factor effecting the problem.
Factory spec is 66 ft/lbs. John said with the larger bolt to go with 100 ft/lbs, but even at 66 it was locked up. I believe the problem is in the end bushing here:
You can see the center aluminum bushing is counter sunk below the height of the Derin outer bushing. It's causing the bracket to torque against the plastic instead of the metal. The other side is better...
So let's see if we can figure out this problem.
The bushing is in two halves, so you do them separately unlike the stock part.
Now the problem I had came when I installed the bracket. Remember the whole point of this is to have a freely moving bracket. My locked up tight against the bushing when I torqued it.
By the way, I know the bracket is upside down there. But I didn't see it as a factor effecting the problem.
Factory spec is 66 ft/lbs. John said with the larger bolt to go with 100 ft/lbs, but even at 66 it was locked up. I believe the problem is in the end bushing here:
You can see the center aluminum bushing is counter sunk below the height of the Derin outer bushing. It's causing the bracket to torque against the plastic instead of the metal. The other side is better...
So let's see if we can figure out this problem.
07-30-2012, 08:36 PM
#27
the first picture they are installed from the wrong side. (oops I see its your install tool mybad) The bracket should not be locked on the delrin. Make sure the spacers are flush to the delrin. May have to be sure they are not mixed and mismatched, and |I will beat on the machinist next time to make sure its all kosher, I prefer that you use rust check or similar anti corrosion grease to prevent galvanic corrosion of the alloy spacer with the steel joint. Maybe i will use steel spacers instead of alloy next time but I have had no issues with the four beams I have installed here. The delrin is for sure proud that is not correct.....measure the difference I will send you new spacers asap
Last edited by Powell Race Parts; 07-30-2012 at 08:45 PM.
07-31-2012, 09:05 AM
#29
A friend of mine is tackling this for me tonight. I'm short on time these days. If we run into the same issue, we'll likely use spacers to get it to sit right. I assume the spacers are in the right order when shipped.
Halfcent, that's some damn nice powder coating there
Not me, too cheap to get mine done. Plus it would mean the car is out of service for even longer.
Halfcent, that's some damn nice powder coating there
Not me, too cheap to get mine done. Plus it would mean the car is out of service for even longer.
07-31-2012, 09:47 AM
#31
^^ ^you can. Its just a pita to have to do that. I sympathise. Also the washer would probably be best stainless but thats hard to find, zinc plated will lose its coating and when dissimilar metals ( ferrous metal against aluminium) are together, galvanic corrosion starts. So coating with grease or rust check would help prevent that. I will just have to beat on the machinist to work to a common spec. rather than build in matched sets where the spacers can fall out and get mixed up, which is what I think may have happened...I had no issues.
07-31-2012, 10:17 AM
#32
I'm old school
Thread Starter
As best I could tell with the naked eye, the spacers where all identical. Two per bushing obviously, 4 total. My shop is not at my home otherwise I would run out there and take a look at them right now. Bear with me, I have to go to my real job that supports this habit. I'll be back at it in a week.
The axle has been powdercoated, not polished. I did all the steel parts in that color; this axle, the engine cradle, brake dust shields, radiator supports, etc.
The axle has been powdercoated, not polished. I did all the steel parts in that color; this axle, the engine cradle, brake dust shields, radiator supports, etc.
08-02-2012, 12:30 AM
#33
I think mine may be a little too tight. I get some squeaking in parking lots, but not at speed. I suspect I need a washer on each side, or at least one side. Stainless washers are easy to come by in this area. John, what size is the bolt, and do you happen to have the OD of the spacer?
08-02-2012, 09:46 AM
#34
yes I am thinking we need to add that to the kit. Thanks to you and Halfcent for the feedback: 25 mm outside diameter (like a scoch under 1.00 in, ) and 14 mm Id (,5 iinches. ) I just checked mike Koldus bushings which are ready to ship here and the bushings are proud, but I think I will add stainless washers, we already supply large diameter for the outside nut. May be hard to get small OD though. Let you know.
08-02-2012, 10:09 AM
#37
with that and the YYZ I find the ride really nice.Mind you I rode off two cars one with YYZ and one with Pedders and it was a dramatic difference. Its gotta be better on the track the spring rate numbers dont lie...
08-02-2012, 04:24 PM
#38
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happy to hear this!!! i thought we were gonna have to put those spacers in! lol and anyone in the va area that gets these i know how to install and can do it for a reasonable price..
of course my good buddy wangspeed gets the best deal! lol
08-03-2012, 08:55 PM
#40
there u go. thats the reason why we did this. As the bushing compresses, the beam walks in and out, and the toe changes ; but worse , the roll center changes and it doesnt change to better ! lol
pivot/v beam/shear point/roll center.
need a stable pivot for everything else to work. U been working ur car hard wangspeed , no doubt.
pivot/v beam/shear point/roll center.
need a stable pivot for everything else to work. U been working ur car hard wangspeed , no doubt.
08-06-2012, 09:46 PM
#41
I'm old school
Thread Starter
Took a lot of measurements and pictures today. Definitely need to grind down the plastic a bit and add some width to the inner bushing to make it work. I'm working with John on it over email. It looks like a combination problem of the inners being a bit too short and the outers being a bit too long.
The glare is obscuring a reading of .031. That's the depth of the inner bushing relative to the outer.
The glare is obscuring a reading of .031. That's the depth of the inner bushing relative to the outer.
08-15-2012, 07:14 PM
#44
currently pondering it with Ronnie the rockin' machinist. We got the solution in mind, but just have to think it through. Answer in a day or two, new parts will go to you and you just have to send the old ones back with my apologies for the pita of changing them. Although they pop out easy for sure, unlike the stock ones.
then u be good.
the rest here are local, and Mike in Cali will get the new style along with all our current orders.
08-16-2012, 11:58 AM
#45
I'm old school
Thread Starter
Looking forward to it. I've got the original set in the axle for now in case I actually get that far in the build process. But since I own the tool, swapping them out is a lot easier.
04-15-2015, 07:45 AM
#47
we recently decided to go back to a different spherical joint internally, that has more weather resistant capability. The machining of the parts was revised to permit the center section to lock onto the beam bracket. The outer shell was redesigned and we retained the larger cross bolt which means yiou have to enlarge the bracket to suit. We can supply that bracket already redrilled if folks wish. Its all an issue of cost.
That said, the first set other than mine, is still driving at 100,000 km in Grand Prairie Alberta, which has to be one of the toughest environments anywhere, without issues. Its really cold in the wnter there and the roads are bad enough, the poor Cobalt has been through three tire blow outs and one bent rim. Ugh.
My set doesnt count as the Redline never sees winter, and its clear both Warren Wang and half cent encountered moisture issues and for half cent, machining was not perfect as the outer shell and the inner pivot cannot be machined flush.
all i got. No negative feed back from any one else; afaik Matty O still runs his they are four years old.
That said, the first set other than mine, is still driving at 100,000 km in Grand Prairie Alberta, which has to be one of the toughest environments anywhere, without issues. Its really cold in the wnter there and the roads are bad enough, the poor Cobalt has been through three tire blow outs and one bent rim. Ugh.
My set doesnt count as the Redline never sees winter, and its clear both Warren Wang and half cent encountered moisture issues and for half cent, machining was not perfect as the outer shell and the inner pivot cannot be machined flush.
all i got. No negative feed back from any one else; afaik Matty O still runs his they are four years old.
06-29-2015, 10:31 PM
#48
Moderator
we recently decided to go back to a different spherical joint internally, that has more weather resistant capability. The machining of the parts was revised to permit the center section to lock onto the beam bracket. The outer shell was redesigned and we retained the larger cross bolt which means yiou have to enlarge the bracket to suit. We can supply that bracket already redrilled if folks wish. Its all an issue of cost.
That said, the first set other than mine, is still driving at 100,000 km in Grand Prairie Alberta, which has to be one of the toughest environments anywhere, without issues. Its really cold in the wnter there and the roads are bad enough, the poor Cobalt has been through three tire blow outs and one bent rim. Ugh.
My set doesnt count as the Redline never sees winter, and its clear both Warren Wang and half cent encountered moisture issues and for half cent, machining was not perfect as the outer shell and the inner pivot cannot be machined flush.
all i got. No negative feed back from any one else; afaik Matty O still runs his they are four years old.
That said, the first set other than mine, is still driving at 100,000 km in Grand Prairie Alberta, which has to be one of the toughest environments anywhere, without issues. Its really cold in the wnter there and the roads are bad enough, the poor Cobalt has been through three tire blow outs and one bent rim. Ugh.
My set doesnt count as the Redline never sees winter, and its clear both Warren Wang and half cent encountered moisture issues and for half cent, machining was not perfect as the outer shell and the inner pivot cannot be machined flush.
all i got. No negative feed back from any one else; afaik Matty O still runs his they are four years old.
07-01-2015, 09:22 PM
#49
Eddie you get the bushings a larger cross pin and nut, and we ship the tool seperately and directly to you from the USA. Andrew Carr is the "custodian" out of Clarence NY. Good guy he is , and he makes sure the tool goes out and comes back in good order for us. For Canadians I have a tool here , and do the same, that way the border is not an issue. Parts cost enough.
Contact Gloria@powellraceparts to get the ball rolling cheers
Contact Gloria@powellraceparts to get the ball rolling cheers