When I supercharged the car, we had a problem with it boosting only 2lbs. So we basically tuned the car for the injectors, and called it a day. It's pig rich for the 2lbs I'm running at the moment. I decided to try the boost bypass mod and see what is going to need to be adjusted when we figure out the problem next friday. Here is my log of the car (untuned for 7lbs).

AFR's in 9-10's lol

This was a 0-60mph run, then shutdown and stay in vac for the rest of the .5 mile ride home.

http://www.nhview.com/Personal/1-2-3untuned7psi.hpl

 

Well your LTFT's are way off they were sitting around 24-25 and you had alot of knock also. I would be carful driving around till you get a better tune.

 

yeah....i know. I put the vac line back and not boosting 7lbs now. It will give others looking into this swap an idea of what may need to be tweaked. I don't want to mess with the tuning. I'll let Fred do it while I watch and learn what he's doing.

 

If your dont mind could you post your tune file? If not it is totally understandable since you are paying to have this done. But I am glad to see you are making progress with the SC :

 

9s and 10s is not good bro...

You're going to flood your engine and cause some good misfires if you keep it going.

Good luck.

 

I know, I know...I try and stay out of boost as much as possible. We didn't see any sense in tweaking things while on the dyno that charges by the hour. Sure we could have leaned it out a bit, but at the time we didn't know what was causing the low boost and wanted to stay on the safe side just in case. We know now.

Nah, not gonna post the tune.

 

If we didn't tune around the MAP I would probably attempt to tune it...but since no MAP then...no spark control. I'll just have to wait until Friday.

 

Ouch, there are much better ways of tuning around the MAP other than unplugging it.

Your IFR calculations are going to be useless as well as the ability to run electronic throttle tests. I hope you aren't paying by the hour because basically you're rewriting all the airflow tables and it will take a while.

Plug it back in and tune the MAP out of the fueling calculations while above 1 bar.

 

Hey Witt can you explain this alittle better?

 

i believe what he's saying is he's not getting any depth on any table requiring map values. This is why he's getting massive amounts of knock because our spark tables are map dependant to lower/raise spark, as well as injector offset tables to increase/decrease fuel...

a better option for a temp tune would have been to leave the 1 bar in and disable PE til you recieved the new map sensor. Since any table dealing with map vaules will take the last value in the table when it ran out of room, you could compensate for boost... but i would have set you rev limiter at 3200 and set your pe enable to 8100 along with a long talk about buying a new engine.

 

listen to bigworm, he is the 2.4 tuning god haha btw get on yahoo thurm i got a couple questions to ask.

 

the car is not running this tune right now...this was to show you guys that are supercharging a 2.4 what the car is doing afterwards with relatively no tuning yet. it's running fine now!

 

I've always kept the 1 bar map and the map functioning however I just allow the PCM to use only the MAF for airflow measurements (stock its setup to use both MAP and MAF for air metering). Even on a blow through MAF with a turbo it only took a few minutes to dial in a tune within a few percent afr error via MAF.

The only table that runs out of range due to the 1 bar map should be the injector flow rate table iirc. In this case I take the same approach as an LSJ with 650cc injectors and simply make up for it in the MAF cal. Spark is still determined by final calculated cylinder airmass.

 

cylinder airmass is a map calculated value, without range you have no tuning in high boost levels, just static last cell values. and your going MAF-hi speed to deal with VE interruptions (which is map dependent), spark is still very much map dependent

but this is a great example of multiple ways to skin the cat. lose timing control in boost, or loose an equal amount of control through out the entire range of map.

 

Actually its figured off of a blend of sensors and called dynamic airflow. Once map is disabled from dynamic airflow calculations you'll have control over spark and fueling again via MAF.

The reason it may be looking like its a MAP controlled value is because MAP may not have been eliminated from dynamic airflow measurements and when entering boost it will cause the calculated cylinder airmass to "hang" in a cell (since dynamic airflow is relying on partial input from each sensor). This was the exact problem that celicacobalt's dyno tuner had in regards to his car going lean at a certain point. Dynamic airflow is the actual number used to calculate the amount of fuel per airmass. Its a predicted value based on map, maf, and a few other minor values. I strongly recommend disabling MAP from any air metering as once in boost you have to rely on trims to correct VE since the VE fueling cannot be logged for error even if the map will support the higher pressure (its the old HPTuners doesn't support 4 axis logging problem). You can however still use the 2.5 bar "TMAP" to calculate IFR table value and for the integrated air temperature sensor.

Not sure what you mean by "maf-hi speed", maybe high frequency? Thats just how HPT breaks down a MAF chart to make it easier to read when using higher precision.

Edit: All my info is based off of build "19" of HPT since that was the current one the last time I tuned a boosted 2.4 in July from this thread. I'm not 100% that something hasn't changed in HPT scanner since then.

 

your talking about maf-hi speed fixing the problem of "hanging" because of VE interruptions. Not sure this has anything to do with map... see next.

im not sure your disabling MAP from the calculations, your disabling VE flitering by forcing MAF-hi speed calculations. however, MAP is still used in there
its easiest to demonstrate this with a spark table histogram, a 1 bar under boost will be reading a completely different value than a 2.5bar given all other variable are the same (maf-hi speed)

maf-hi speed is the maf-only mode (no ve filtering), engine->airflow->dynamic->high rpm disable. if you log 'air calc mode' it should show hi speed.

witt, we all know your a pimp. respect given.

 

yea pjk..i'm very happy with how the build went and worm has done a great job on the tune...not bad for 5 **** ***** with no shop..........forum trolls ftw

 

Ok, gotcha on the MAF high speed, we called it MAF only mode. On Ppazz's turbo'ed car once it was set to a point that it was always used, everything was a breeze after that. We never used anything other than the stock map sensor so I can't say what a comparison between the two on a spark table would look like (we used the MAF in a blow through setup which gave us temperature post compressor).

As far as the spark table hanging, this would happen anytime the MAP would be used in air metering until it was disabled from dynamic airflow calculations (with a 1 bar sensor). This was the reason celicacobalt's tuner couldnt dial in A/F or spark and why he had to send it to Hahn to be tuned; his local tuner didn't know what the dynamic airflow parameters were for or didn't know how to change them with LS2edit. The symptoms described earlier with the spark table sounded similar as well as the suggestion to swap to a 2-2.5 bar map to enable spark tuning (which I read somewhere in one of these threads, I'm starting to get them mixed up).

I have the original logs from ppazz's turbo somewhere on my laptop. When I find them, I'll post them up, maybe can do a little comparison on boosted 2.4s. You have me interested in what the spark looked like at the time. I don't remember anything unusual, but who knows.

 

sorry, cant take credit for pjk's car. credit goes to Fred at SMG i believe. this is a thread jack.


I'd love to see logs. I'll have another 2.4L in another month or so to test apples-to-apples on.

 

Yeah, I'll post up a log file Friday. I left my HPT with Fred @ his shop.

 

Fred left me a message on my answering machine about tuning a 2.4 when I was at work but it erased it before I got a chance to call him back. Did everything go alright?

 

Well the car runs good. lol...When did he call you? I'll have him check this thread.

 

It was a few weeks ago iirc. I didn't have his number to return the call.

 

NEW LOG FILE

This is 9psi 0-85mph

http://www.negmsc.com/uploads/9psi0-85.hpl

 

Link no workie