helty

its happened.

MB06

I know what you mean since I own both cars and can give you an unbiased opinion.

Maybe it was from a rolling start and the Z28 being an AUTO just wasn't in it's powerband when you both gunned it. Had it been an M6 with a good driver, I doubt you'd take him.

Now, MY camaro with the LT1 runs consistent 13.9s and 14.0 ETs and I know that when I drive my Cobalt, it feels like it has lots to give in second gear until redline but after I'd shift in 3rd I'm guessing the camaro would catch up. Both cars have pretty close ETs and in a street race it may feel as if the cobalt can spank an f-body. Second gear on the Cobalts just make it a blast to drive.

On a prepped track from a standing still, this totally changes.

My buddy has an '02 Z28 with only exhaust and K&N and runs 13.5s consistently at the track and once pulled a 13.06........and he has an auto.

So in other words, from a rolling start, the cobalt sure can surprise a stock f-body. From a stand still or at the track, any 93 to 2002 M6 or A4 should be able to beat the Cobalt assuming both are stock.

MB06

My friend once ran a 13.06 with an air lid and exhaust with an A4 '02 Z28 so I can't see why 12.9 wouldn't be possible with an M6 and a good driver when the temperature is right.

Why is low end HP any better? My 95 LT1 Z28 make loads of power down low but still gets spanked by LS1s. The older 350s just don't breathe quite as good as the LS1 and the LS1 is a much lighter engine and is more fuel efficient. The Ls1 was also underrated by GM since they dyno at the wheels almost exactly the same hp as rated from the factory at the motor. Sounds like the Cobalt eh?

LT1's are known to run flat or low 14s all day long but I know a guy that ran a 13.8 with bad tires and factory filter.........he's just really good at getting the most out of his car and shifts pretty damn flawlessly.

Eddie

yeah it would have had to been an auto. w/ the 2.73's and f'd engine, the autos are dogs especially from a roll. i've drivin a ss s/c , i love the car but i still chose my 02 z28, and as far as 12's stock form, maybe stripper model w/ slicks, they have been very special people that gotten in 12's but its not garaunteed. typicaly stock ls1's are 13-14 second cars. thats w/ auto. but i definatly looking into getting an ss s/c as a commuter car. i love the car. but i love camaro's to death.

helty

I will have to dig to find it, but Evan Smith, (for those that dont know, he's the ******* man), the same guy that got a 13.71 out of a stock 2002 Mustang GT, ran a 12.8 in a stock 02 Camaro SS. Does that mean all LS1s run 12s? Hell no, most run mid-low 13s, some even slower. But, the driver is the x factor. Driven properly, a 98-02 LS1 equipped Camaro is capable of 12s in stock trim. I will try to find that article in my pile of MM&FFs. They were doing a review of the Bullitt or 01 Cobra and had a sidebar about the SS they tested the same day.

helty

cant find the F'kin magazine to scan the article, it might be back at my house in PA. But heres a quote from an on-line article referencing the same run:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...htp_realworld/

I'll call my brother and make him go through my boxes and find that thing.

Blainestang

I'm afraid you're wrong. Evan Smith of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords Magazine did it.

Sure, he is so far above average it's not even funny, but still, it's not a "myth."

Blainestang

Wow, that's weird. I said like the same thing without reading your posts. I've got the article, too. I'll look for it as well.

helty

its the same way when people say a 99+ GT is incapable of running 13s stock. Evan Smith not only broke into 13s, the man killed it. 13.71 with plastic wrapping still in the seats and less than 100 (or was it 1000) miles on the car. Sure, 90% of stang owners cant do that, but the car is capable of it.
Great minds think alike

Nocturn

If only one person can do it, then WTF is the use in saying they all can do it. In the odds you find that ONE person who can do it? Please , even then i'm not going to trust one magazine that says stock is a gray area. Stock to some people means bolt ons and radials, I say its bone stock tires and filter, in which case everytime I have asked for actual slips from an actual person not a magazine, they have always either had radials or some other minor mod.

THEN, theres the whole factor that most Corvettes (C5s) won't hit a 12.9, I had my friend in an auto hit a 13.3 consistantly, and yet a car with the same engine and less weight is going to be slower, come on.

It's a myth untill 10 people can show me different slips that are actually stock. Untill then one magic person running 12.9 doesn't count. Hell you could remote control the damn thing and run a 12.9, doesn't mean it will happen on the streets, and is thus pointless.

280Z1977

You sound like Dave Chappelle. "I would think he did it if he had 2 forms of ID, the girl in question had her high school, and his grandma was there to corroborate during the said pissing." You are being unreasonable.

helty

hes not the only one, there are more. hes the one that I know by name. This isnt car and driver that could only muster a 13.8 out of an LS1. this is Evan Smith of MM&FF, you know, a real drag racer? And the car was stock down to the filter and tires.

on top of that i never said thay all do it, I said they are CAPABLE, ok, that means able with the right driver. The car itself can run 12s, most people arent good enough drivers to do it. Hell the cobalt may be capable of 13.99, but apparently no ones good enough to do it yet. I bet if someone did though, it would be common thought that all cobalts can run 13s. Its not a myth its a fact, an LS1 equipped camaro CAN and HAS run 12.99 or better bone stock. and what do the streets have anything to do with track times? what happens on the street is ******* retarded anyway. Street Racers, hell yeah! F'king posers

I can explain the corvette easily, your friend cant drive the car to its full potential. Go over to LS1tech, register, and ask this question.

go on believing what you want. At the end of the day a stock LS1 can run 12s, a stock Cobalt cant run 13s. get over it.

oh yeah, you said NO stock LS1 can run 12s. Now you want 10 with time slips. which is it?
you know the more I read this, the more I realize its pointless trying to explain logic to you. this is the first step towards becoming a domestic ricer. When the street becomes more important than the track, (you know, the track where you get actual time slips and a lot of people even get paid) you have crossed the point of no return. Good luck.

280Z1977

He wants 10 slips, all from 10 different drivers, all in 10 different months of the year. Every driver must be seperated by at least 1 year in age and 1 must be female. Otherwise LS1=13seconds forever.

helty

I found your dave chappelle reference hilarious by the way, good one

Blainestang

This is pointless. Even if we supplied 10 different slips from 10 different LS1 F-bods running 12's, then he'd want 10 video's... then he'd want a federal investigation into whether or not they were stock... then he'd want to go back in time and do a personal engine teardown prior to the runs to make sure the cars were 100% stock down to the original oil...

Pointless...

Get over it, dude. You said that 12's could NEVER happen. Well, they did. All the time? No, but you said NEVER and we proved you wrong.

jaguar

sound like a bunch of magazine racers to me

Blainestang

Then, you obviously don't understand the debate.


Nocturn says that NO LS1 F-body has/can run 12's stock.

Therefore, all we have to do is show proof of one stock LS1 F-bod running 12's stock EVER. It just so happens that a reputable magazine did it, so that was the one that we noted.


Mag racing is when you decide the outcome of a race based on magazine times for one or both of the cars involved, such as saying that an LS1 WILL beat a Mach 1 because Evan Smith drove the LS1 to 12.9 and the Mach 1 to 13.1 despite all the other factors involved. That's mag racing. We were simply using a magazine as proof that one car, the LS1 F-body, is capable of 12's stock. Not that it will run that every time. Not that it would run that against said Mach 1. Not that any driver could do it. Nothing but pointing out that if the stars align and you've got the right driver and conditions, an LS1 F-bod is capable of 12's, straight off the showroom floor. Big difference.

Nocturn

I'v seen, read, and have a copy of the MM&FF artricle, I know what you are talking about, the point I am making is that just because one particular car can do it under perfect conditions doesn't mean that every other one will. Yet everyone goes around claiming the LS1 can run 12.9, when 99% won't.

I didn't claim the Cobalt could run 13.9 either, but if one managed to do it I wouldn't say it was a 13 second car because only one has done it so far (slight difference because the Camaro isn't made anymore).

When I said it would never happen on the street I wasn't meaning a strait street race, but more was implying when you actually end up racing an LS1 fbody be it street or strip, the odds of you racing that ONE person are microscopic.

In basic my side of the argument, is that you can't call a car a 12 second car if it can only happen under one particular driver under perfect conditions.

helty

hell he ran a 12.89, not a 12.99. Ive said in almost every post Ive made, I KNOW that not every LS1 you encounter will run 12.99 or better, only that they are CAPABLE of it. You are reading way too much into what I am trying to get across

I know, I just threw that out there for ***** n giggles. If I had to guess, I think it could run 14.05 in perfect conditions with great track prep.

But ther are more than just one that have done it. There are several over on LS1Tech, and you have to remember, people that are really into drag racing, the ones who are really good at it, not all of them give a rats ass about posting their times on internet message boards. They're busy in their garage or at the track running.

My whole point is: THE CAR IS CAPABLE OF 12s. However, most drivers arent capable of getting the most out of their cars.

Blainestang

I think we're all on a similar page here...

COULD a stock LS1 F-bod run 12's in great conditions with a great driver? Yes.

Does this happen often? No.

Should the LS1 F-bod be considered a 12-second car, stock? No, more like a low-mid 13-second car that, when the planets align, is CAPABLE of 12's.

helty

mycavisux97

camaro ss/Z28>cobalt ss/sc

Sempher55

I would if it was a kill, no offense, my friend has a camaro... im not the best driver in the world, but i know what im doing... you raced a V6....

mycavisux97

he raced a stock atuo v-8 with a dirty air filter, old oil, and high milage.

my guess

Sempher55

and three tires.....