05SCOOBYSTI

05SCOOBYSTI

HOLY CRAP...after saying I never see the Cobalt SS/SC...I saw 3 of them this morning in like 30 minutes and another one on HWY 70 this afternoon...

MarcS

lol, figures that would happen.

codyss

Maybe you just bought a super special STi.

Dyno numbers will show why a SS/SC wil easily hang with a STi from a roll.

GTPsRule

No more dyno racing pleeaaaaase!!!!!!!!!
Its more like 1/4 mile trap speeds will show why an SS will hang with an STi from a roll. From whats been run so far, it looks like the SS is only about 2-3mph slower than an STi through the traps, which on the street can play a big difference.

codyss

Dyno racing?

260WHP in a STi = 220WHP in a SS/SC.

As far as I know a dyno is the only way to get these numbers for comparission. There is a difference between throwing dyno numbers out and simply using them to explain that a car that weighs less takes less HP than a heavier car does to do the same.

wasey13

O, rly? Peak dyno numbers will tell how a car performs from a roll? I am thinking the area under the curve will matter a whole lot more, especially from a roll. Also according to some of the dyno numbers that Cobalt SS people throw around, there should be several in the 13s, but so far only one I believe? Hmmm... maybe it's a sign that dyno numbers shouldn't be used to argue how fast a car is.

GTPsRule

I'm just saying that theres already enough BS being throw around on this forum concerning dyno numbers and how fast car X will be versus car Y based on dyno numbers. Using track times is a better way to compare the two in an instance such as a roll race. As wasey said, peak numbers mean little. If a car has **** for power after a shift when the revs drop, its gonna lose in a roll race against what would other wise be a similiarly matched car.

wesmanw02

Unfortunately your STi is not as fast from a roll as you'd like to think it is. The only reason STi's/Evo's can run 0-60 in the high 4's and the 1/4 mile in the mid 13's is because of the AWD launch. But after that launch, the AWD becomes nothing more than a handicap. Factoring in drivetrain loss, the STi only puts down about 225HP to the wheels. Here's the stats, even the Cobalt SS S/C is faster from a 5MPH roll than the STi:

Cobalt SS Supercharged

Zero to 60 mph: 5.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.4 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 29.8 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.2 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.4 sec @ 100 mph

2005 Subaru WRX STi

0-60 mph 4.8
0-100 mph 12.6
0-130 mph 25.0
1/4-mile @ mph 13.6 @ 104
Rolling 5-60 mph 6.3

2005 Mustang GT (for comparison)

60 mph: 5.2
100 mph: 13.2
110 mph: 16.5
120 mph: 20.1
130 mph: 26.1
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.9

wasey13

Throwing numbers around is fun....

13.1 at 106.8mph, what my friend ran in his bone stock STi. The reason the 5-60 time for the STi that you posted (would love to know where you got those numbers) is so slow is probably because they have to shift into 3rd before 60, if I am not mistaken. Since they have to go into 5th before the 1/4 is done. Either way, gearing, aerodynamics, and power matter a whole lot more in a roll race then % of drive train loss.

illusion

You're fooling yourself. Two reasons for a slow 5-60. 2 gear changes(one of the reasons the JDM STi posts even better 0-60s) and turbo lag, I can pull around 2-3 cars on my buddies T88 MkIV, then about a second after that he has about 5 cars on me. Downside to a turbo, waiting for it to wake up. I've seen a stock STi hose his launch with a 2.2s 60' and still pull out a 104 trap. Stop your mag racing. and 13.6? Most STis n00bs pull 13.4s, I've seen quite a few 13.1s from people that learned to feather the clutch,, and I've seen 2 12.9s(with a death drop of the clutch that made me wince)... BONE STOCK though. Do you realize that a 5 second difference on the 0-130, is almost 200 FEET yeah that's all from the launch

GTPsRule

Well wesman I hate to do this to you, but Im going to throw some of those same numbers back at you that contradict the perception that the STi slows down on the top end.

OWNED

EDIT: I see illusion already beat me to it. But it makes our argument that much sweeter

05SCOOBYSTI

wow wesmanw02 you owned yourself before I could even see what was going on in here...have fun with that one...

illusion

some more help for those folks that don't get it.

Cobalt SS/SC about 185whp on a true load bearing dynos(dyno dynamics, mustang also known as heartbreaker dynos)
WRX 2.0 about 170whp on a heartbreaker dyno
WRX 2.5 about 180whp on a heartbreaker dyno(but gobs more torque than the 2.0)
STi 2.5 about 220whp on a DD or Mustang
EVO VIII about 235hp on a DD or Mustang
EVO IX about 245hp on a DD or Mustang
SRT4 about 205whp on a DD or Mustang

ok you want toy numbers?
Cobalt SS/SC on a dynojet 217whp(5th gear pull, not 1:1)
Wrx 2.0 on a dynojet 208whp(4th gear pull)
WRX 2.5 haven't seen a dynojet or dynapak run for one yet
STi 2.5 on a dynojet 256whp
EVO VIII on dynojet 274whp
EVO IX haven't seen a dyno on a stroker dyno(because it strokes your ego).
SRT4 on a dynojet 240whp

For reference I made 335whp on a mustang which is about where I was expecting to be. I made 391 on a dynojet, and that's just pump gas pulls, no alky, no "magic" gas.

DD and Mustang are usually 1-5% within eachother even between sites. Dynojet and Dynapack can be anywhere between 10-20% higher than DD and Mustang, usually right about 15% if both are calibrated right.

Digging around on this site I see "yeah the STi only made 225whp but the Cobalt made 215 and is lighter" that's comparing apples to potatos, mustang to dynojet. If you compare dynos on comparable machines, then the numbers make sense.

You also have to consider power under the curve and weight. The SS has a much broader power band than the wrx does and weighs less, and that's why from a roll the wrx 2.0 gets walked. The 2.5 wrx opens that band up a bit though, almost the same turbo(not quite) as the 2.0 wrx with .5 liter more air moving it. The 2.5 WRX also now sports the same block with AVCS heads as the STi, just a smaller turbo and mild tune.

STi is not fast "just because it has awd" it's quick because it's a 300hp car that has comparable driveline loss as an automatic 300hp car, slightly worse though. It's advantages are far too many to list(AWD, 6 pot brembos, DCCD, wicked suspension, S03 tires, HID.....) It's expensive for what it is to me, but then again so was my G35. The Cobalt is a great car for it's Niche, it's no STi or EVO though.

I see folks saying "yeah but I can mod mine for less and be on par with an STi". BS. To be on par in every area you end up spending much more money, ask me how I know(the money I've put in the wrx would have gotten an STi and had money enough to mod it to kick my WRXs ass), and when the STi starts modding what then?


Hope that makes sense.

wesmanw02

Well obviously gear changes and turbo lag play a big part in that. What are you saying though, that those 2 things aren't issues in a real race?? Obviously they are the reason Car & Driver (where all those numbers were from) could only pull a 6.3 second 5-60 time. Mag racing?? Well what do you think we should go by then?? "What you saw"?? Yea thats a real accurate way to gauge the performance of a vehicle, by what some fanboy "saw"

I'm getting really sick of your crap around here GTP. Every thread you post in seems to turn into a flame war in no time at all. You must think you're pretty "badass" saying I got "owned". Too bad you just made yourself look like an idiot, because I in no way contradicted myself or the numbers I posted. All I said was that the STi loses its advantage from a roll, and thats true. Obviously from a dig (zero MPH in case you don't know what that means) its going to pull the best times due to the AWD launch, hence the reason it has the best numbers in all the runs starting at zero and the worst numbers in all the runs starting from a roll. Get a clue.

MarcS

Easy guys.

The purpose of the thread is to be informative.

wasey13

I would like to inform everyone that wesmanw02 is not very intelligent.

05SCOOBYSTI

SwizzDSMSS

My famous line. "Who cares?"

DC52NV

why are people still thinking that roll racing counts for something? all roll racing tells people is how fast car A can pass car B.

illusion

So aside from the 1 second difference to 60 from a dig, how does the STi manage to stretch that an extra 4 seconds to 130? must be that awd disadvantage again. You numbers show that from 5mph, both cars stomping on it at the same time, the STi takes a while to get going. The 0-130 show once it's on boost and the AVCS is kicking ass, it RUNS away from the cobolt regardless of launch. 2/3 of a football field to 130? lol yeah... count that in buslengths.

Darksun

Can't argue with that. Anyway if any cobalt is trying to race an sti from a roll you gotta get them outta there first gear and more in to there second. An sti will still pull like a mad man from a first gear roll. It'll look like the **** still launched on your ass as it starts to throw the car lenghts between you and it. Drivetrain loss be damned, they still make more than enough low end grunt to dispatch a cobalt.

wesmanw02

And this coming from someone who's been here a whole 3 days?? Jam it.

Compared to what?? The Cobalt SS S/C?? Of course its going to be faster, not only does it gain at least 1 second from the AWD launch, but its also got more power as well as a 6-speed trans to help it achieve that time. Run a Mustang GT vs an Sti in 5-60MPH, and I guarentee that the Mustang would take the Sti by at least a few carlengths, being that the Sti wouldn't have the AWD advantage and loses more power through its drivetrain than the Mustang. Not to mention the GT doesn't have to worry about turbo lag in the lower RPM's, the power is there when you need it. You need to compare apples with apples, comparing the 0-130MPH times an AWD car to that of a RWD or FWD car isn't accurate because the AWD vehicle is almost always going to win due to the launch. Some of you would like to make the STi out to be some kind of supercar, which is a joke, because its nothing spectacular without a hard lauch. Thats not to discredit the car though, its still very nice overall and very quick, but the exaggeration gets out of hand sometimes.

wasey13

You act like that was the day I was born or something. "You've been here 3 days, there is no way you know as much as me."That makes zero sense. Also about my previous comment, I only speak the truth.


Know what gets out of hand? People thinking that roll racing is cool and that the Cobalt SS/SC is the king of it. Also who races from 5-60? That is such a dumb stat to compare. I will bet you any amount of money that the 05 Mustang GT won't put carlengths on the STi in 5-60mph like you just guarAnteed. Glad I informed everyone about you.

illusion

You're talking test conditions. at 5mph step on the gas. Those who know how to drive awd will stomp on the gas, clutch in to let the tach jump then feather it out, and as was said it's just like launching again. I can do it very well in first and second. It spooks people how fast I jump on them. The mustang will put down similar 60's(1.8x for the STi, 1.9x for the Mustang on stock rubber for normal people) and launches as the STi. From a 50+ roll I'd give it to the stang, but down low it's time for the re-launch as I like to call it. If you try a re-launch with a stang you'll be spending money on tires.

I'm not trying to be a pain. I've seen so many threads here with the "it only has 220whp" and that's the extent of the STi, it's much more than that though. Cobalt, STi, Stang(I can't wait for dealers to take 07 cobra pre-orders I will be in line.), every car has it's ups and downs, for $30K(I'm aware of a few people picking up 06 STi for UNDER invoice already) you get a pretty decent amount of car, just as for the money you pay for the Cobalt you get a fair share of car.