Intense Kit vs. Revitup Kit [Archive]

Twincharged

02-20-2006, 11:31 AM

Well currently the way the base RevIt Up kit works is by using the stock injectors and not modifying the MAF but adjusting the MAP sensor to get the targeted aif fuel ratio. This is good enough to run a 2.8 pulley and that is about it. Much mods after this and you will start to run really lean. You will still run a bit lean at the last few hundred RPMs but it is not detrimental. The RevIt Up setup does have a good upgrade path though. There is a future to this tuner to add more fuel and other options. There will be a fueler rail upgrade that will open up you car to Alot more mods.

The Intense takes a route that has a flaw. They install larger injectors in place of the factory injectors. In order for you to lean out the larger injectors and get the right air fuel ratio you need to pull back on the MAF frequency. In turn this makes the car think it has less load and will result in more ignition timing. Too much ignition timing leads to very bad detonation. There isn't much of an upgrade path thru this setup due to this tuning issue. Also there is noting you can do about that last few hundred RPMs where the factory ECU pulls back boost and fuel.

The only way to get around the lean issue in the last few hundred RPMs is to inject fuel from another set of injectors and compensate for what the factory ones aren't putting out.

RevIt Up is the only solution as of right now.

BoomInIt

02-20-2006, 11:46 AM

I have the revitup stage 1 and I love it. No tuning and just solder a couple wires was fairly easy if you can color match wires. The stage 1 powerpaq even has a couple extra wires for the next stage. No cel and great power with no tuning. I was going to go with the intense kit, but did not want to go through the trouble of tuning it.

FAST06SS

02-20-2006, 11:48 AM

Twincharged

02-20-2006, 11:54 AM

theBLUEone

02-20-2006, 02:00 PM

With all of this talk, it is hard to tell, which one to go with....I'm still sided with INTENSE I think, I just really like plug and play... Tuning I can deal with since my car isn't my daily driver......

zinner

02-20-2006, 02:08 PM

Just curious as to where you get the info that a 2.8 is safe with stock injectors??????
Did they dyno on a hot humid low baro day or what?

I dyno tested mine, BONE stock except for the 3.0 pulley, i hit 13.4 afr at 6500rpm :thumbsdow It was 30degrees, high baro and low humidity, which = more fuel demand.

It's a good thing they built these little engines fairly strong as otherwise there would be ALLOT of people blowing them up!!!! With the bad advice going around here.

You have an 2006. If you have 2005 it's a different calibration as far as some of us can tell.

I don't come anywhere close to 13.4 with a 3.0 pulley, I am still like 12.5 at the very highest.

I am going to be modifying both the MAP and MAF. I will be adding to the MAF singal (stock injectors) and pulling the MAP down to look like stock levels. Hopefully I should get some timing back with that. I am already added to the MAF about 4-7 percent depending on the load sites.

Thats my weekend project. :)

And I know to watch for knock, I have a scanner, I have a knock light, I have an AFR gauge. DTEC-FC rules :)

max_boost

02-20-2006, 02:12 PM

With all of this talk, it is hard to tell, which one to go with...
I'm with you on that. Good thing it is still winter here or I'd have spent my money already. There is going to be a lot of good things avalible this spring, I'm going to wait and see what comes out and then make up my mind.

FAST06SS

02-20-2006, 02:13 PM

That is because you dynoed BONE stock except for the pulley. RevItUP is NOT bone stock. They are modifying several sensors to get a richer mixture. What bad advise are you talking about? I hope you are referring to me.

The injectors can only support X amount of power, since you can't bump the ful pressure on these due to the returnless set-up, you have to either, A. Increase duty cycle or IPW's, or install bigger injectors. So lets see, i was already lean at 13.4, my IPW's were at 110%+ so were is there ANYWHERE to fool the fuel supply system. There isn't!! Unless you are hiding something. Map clamp, MAFFT's, gidgets and gadgets CAN'T overcome an injector already maxed out period!

As for referring to you? If the shoe fits, then i guess you're wearing it?? Telling people they can run a 2.8 on a stock fuel system and be safe is ludricrous at best!! UNLESS you are changing the fuel delievery set-up ;)

FAST06SS

02-20-2006, 02:14 PM

You have an 2006. If you have 2005 it's a different calibration as far as some of us can tell.

I don't come anywhere close to 13.4 with a 3.0 pulley, I am still like 12.5 at the very highest.

I am going to be modifying both the MAP and MAF. I will be adding to the MAF singal (stock injectors) and pulling the MAP down to look like stock levels. Hopefully I should get some timing back with that. I am already added to the MAF about 4-7 percent depending on the load sites.

Thats my weekend project. :)

And I know to watch for knock, I have a scanner, I have a knock light, I have an AFR gauge. DTEC-FC rules :)

What is your IPW's and Injector duty cycle?? ANYTHING over 20ms at 6K and above is MAXED! :cool:

zinner

02-20-2006, 03:33 PM

What is your IPW's and Injector duty cycle?? ANYTHING over 20ms at 6K and above is MAXED! :cool:

92-98% duty cycle. I monitor then with the DTEC mostly. It does the math based on RPM.

I do monitor the IPW with the interceptor however.

I am definetly not saying bigger injectors won't give you more fuel, what I am say is I run a 3 inch pulley with a K&N and 3 inch cat back and I am not going lean according to my AFR readings.

FAST06SS

02-20-2006, 06:45 PM

92-98% duty cycle. I monitor then with the DTEC mostly. It does the math based on RPM.

I do monitor the IPW with the interceptor however.

I am definetly not saying bigger injectors won't give you more fuel, what I am say is I run a 3 inch pulley with a K&N and 3 inch cat back and I am not going lean according to my AFR readings.

Is that thru all 3 gears? I bet by the top of 3rd you are fubar'd! ;)

Trust me, from a very very reliable source, plus verified by my data, stock injectors are close to MAX on a STOCK engine, WHY would gm put injectors in the upgrade if they weren't?????

sneaky

02-20-2006, 06:58 PM

we won't need to be doing all this crap if we had the correct access to the fuel maps..

max_boost

02-20-2006, 07:04 PM

we won't need to be doing all this crap if we had the correct access to the fuel maps..
Access will come, just hold your horses.

FAST06SS

02-20-2006, 07:16 PM

we won't need to be doing all this crap if we had the correct access to the fuel maps..

Let me try this again, i don't seem to be getting thru to people,

If your Injectors are static, (98%+ dutycycle or 20ms IPW @ 6K^) NO PCM TUNING OR TRICKERY is going to richen the AFR.

When a fuel curve is going lean, verified by 2 widebands at the same time, Injector duty cycle is 100%+, then it's time for bigger injectors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT piggy back maps, maffs, etc;!!!!

Now adding extra injectors is totally different solution and does work somewhat. ;)

By the way, i found the limit of the 42lb injectors :eek: :eek: :eek: Could be the pump as well :thumbsdow Didn't have my fuel pressure gauge on to verify at the time :cussing:

theBLUEone

02-20-2006, 11:54 PM

Let me try this again, i don't seem to be getting thru to people,

If your Injectors are static, (98%+ dutycycle or 20ms IPW @ 6K^) NO PCM TUNING OR TRICKERY is going to richen the AFR.

When a fuel curve is going lean, verified by 2 widebands at the same time, Injector duty cycle is 100%+, then it's time for bigger injectors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT piggy back maps, maffs, etc;!!!!

Now adding extra injectors is totally different solution and does work somewhat. ;)

By the way, i found the limit of the 42lb injectors :eek: :eek: :eek: Could be the pump as well :thumbsdow Didn't have my fuel pressure gauge on to verify at the time :cussing:

Damn already! You don't stop! LOL...Are you working on more products?

zinner

02-21-2006, 01:04 AM

Is that thru all 3 gears? I bet by the top of 3rd you are fubar'd! ;)

Trust me, from a very very reliable source, plus verified by my data, stock injectors are close to MAX on a STOCK engine, WHY would gm put injectors in the upgrade if they weren't?????

Ok I did some testing tonight on the way home. I am hitting 100% on the injectors and I am creaping to the top of the 13's towards the end. But it's VERY cold out. I am going to put on the stock pulley and do some more tests this weekend.

Not sure how it's going to pan out in some more warm temps.

I also get no knock however.

GotBoost?

02-21-2006, 01:21 AM

This ia ll very good info people thanks. I think i might just wait for the GM kits though

FAST06SS

02-21-2006, 08:53 AM

Damn already! You don't stop! LOL...Are you working on more products?

:twothumbs

FAST06SS

02-21-2006, 08:54 AM

Ok I did some testing tonight on the way home. I am hitting 100% on the injectors and I am creaping to the top of the 13's towards the end. But it's VERY cold out. I am going to put on the stock pulley and do some more tests this weekend.

Not sure how it's going to pan out in some more warm temps.

I also get no knock however.

Let me know what you find. It is cold here as well so fuel demands are higher and Inlet temps lower which help KR. I have a feeling that come summer, these will be pigs unless some changes are made.

Twincharged

02-21-2006, 09:34 AM

Let me try this again, i don't seem to be getting thru to people,

If your Injectors are static, (98%+ dutycycle or 20ms IPW @ 6K^) NO PCM TUNING OR TRICKERY is going to richen the AFR.

When a fuel curve is going lean, verified by 2 widebands at the same time, Injector duty cycle is 100%+, then it's time for bigger injectors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT piggy back maps, maffs, etc;!!!!

Now adding extra injectors is totally different solution and does work somewhat. ;)

By the way, i found the limit of the 42lb injectors :eek: :eek: :eek: Could be the pump as well :thumbsdow Didn't have my fuel pressure gauge on to verify at the time :cussing:

There is plenty of pump to supply more fuel than you will ever need on that stock M62 no matter what pulley you run. I am pushing much more boost on the stock fuel pump and I have plenty left.

FAST06SS

02-21-2006, 10:30 AM

There is plenty of pump to supply more fuel than you will ever need on that stock M62 no matter what pulley you run. I am pushing much more boost on the stock fuel pump and I have plenty left.

Thats stretching out a little bit don't you think. GM saw fit to change it just to run on the Phase5 car! So you are telling me you are not even close to that with a twincharged set-up?????

You are skirting my original question/debate/argument! You can't run a 2.8 on a stock fuel system safely!

Tiny@revitup

02-21-2006, 11:07 AM

Thats stretching out a little bit don't you think. GM saw fit to change it just to run on the Phase5 car! So you are telling me you are not even close to that with a twincharged set-up?????

You are skirting my original question/debate/argument! You can't run a 2.8 on a stock fuel system safely!

You are saying that the car can't handle a 2.8" pulley without bigger injectors correct? Our A/F's on a fairly humid day were about 12.9/1 at the top of the gear (and remember, this is a S/C not a turbo, so the acceptable limits are a little different). That fact right there would say that there shouldn't be a problem. I understand that a lot of guys are throwing out duty cycles and milliseconds, but even though I don't like over 80% duty cycle, it's only happening for a short time and for about 500rpms, so it can be acceptable.

What people are failing to see is that we are fighting about pennies. There are always going to be the swingies that will jump on the back of one company or ther other, and try to fight about who is better, but the fact of the matter is that both kits accomplish the same thing just a little differently.

Revitup, however, has the option of 3 more kits, 2 of which will add on to the stage 1 that is already out, so it's just a little more incentive to go with that company first. Stage 2 is going to be the addition of the RU-FAT with an extra fuel rail, 4 extra injectors, full tuning of all MAP and MAF sensors, added air velocity from the addition of an intake runner, and all kinds of other goodness. So argue about stage 1 all you want, stage 2 is going to kill all of that "lack of injector" talk. With stage 3 we are talking about BIG power for not too much more money over the stage 2.

Stage 4 is rediculous. The maps are done, the tuning is almost finished, and that thing is purring now.

If you want to buy the intense kit or the revitup kit, please, get either one. It's a lot more fun when the car goes faster, and if all you want is a little bump then you don't have to worry about anything.

However, as sad as it is, there are a lot of companies out here that are selling products on the sheer fact that they are good at making fun of other people. If you are going to buy something, buy it because of how good it works and how positive the benifits are. Don't base your decision on the word of people you don't even know telling you that the other guy "sucks and will blow your car up because of all these numbers that i'm going to throw at you that make no sense and can't be substantiated on anything other then my word".

I will be happy to go through the logic of the revitup kit and the descisions behind some of the tuning, and tell people why we did what we did. I'll make you see that we know what we are doing, and I won't ever knock someone else's stuff. I am confident in our products. I can even do some data logging if people want to come down to our shop and we'll educate you if you want. We are in this because we like to do it.

djt81185

02-21-2006, 11:08 AM

Hes saying the 2.8 on a stock fuel pump is a none issue...Though I know you wil run out of injector before you run out of pump. I think that is what he is trying to say

Twincharged

02-21-2006, 11:49 AM

FAST06SS

02-21-2006, 12:08 PM

One last thing to say,

See ya at the track!!!!!!!!!!!! That is where the BS stops and results speak OUT LOUD!!!! :twothumbs

I agree with allot of what you are saying you being a little hypocritical in your statement.

I offer NO products, only services so your argument has nothing to do with me!

By the run, your car thru the entire 1/4 mile and report back. You'll see what i'm talking about :lol: Running up thru 1 gear tells you NOTHING!

Peace :cssNET:

FAST06SS

02-21-2006, 12:10 PM

Revitup, however, has the option of 3 more kits, 2 of which will add on to the stage 1 that is already out, so it's just a little more incentive to go with that company first. Stage 2 is going to be the addition of the RU-FAT with an extra fuel rail, 4 extra injectors, full tuning of all MAP and MAF sensors, added air velocity from the addition of an intake runner, and all kinds of other goodness. So argue about stage 1 all you want, stage 2 is going to kill all of that "lack of injector" talk. With stage 3 we are talking about BIG power for not too much more money over the stage 2.

Thats cool!

But i think 4 60lb injectors and ONE pcm tuned by me will be much cheaper and better :lol:

Tiny@revitup

02-21-2006, 12:23 PM

Thats cool!

But i think 4 60lb injectors and ONE pcm tuned by me will be much cheaper and better :lol:

Once again, tell people why it's better, not just that it is. I still can't discern much of what you are writing anyway, either because you are typing too fast or you are a little jumbled yourself ;) Besides, you are talking about about a small piece of the bigger picture anyway. If you want to cencentrate all your time on that little upgrade thats awesome, and i'm sure that is whats best for you, but we are getting crazy and calling on some really trick technology to take things to the next level.

We already know what the stage 1 does on the track, so now we just have to get past high 13's and it's an improvement!!

djt81185

02-21-2006, 12:27 PM

FAST06SS

02-21-2006, 12:37 PM

Once again, tell people why it's better, not just that it is. I still can't discern much of what you are writing anyway, either because you are typing too fast or you are a little jumbled yourself ;) Besides, you are talking about about a small piece of the bigger picture anyway. If you want to cencentrate all your time on that little upgrade thats awesome, and i'm sure that is whats best for you, but we are getting crazy and calling on some really trick technology to take things to the next level.

We already know what the stage 1 does on the track, so now we just have to get past high 13's and it's an improvement!!

Like was stated above, WHY get over technical when 95% of the people reading it (no offense) have no clue what you are saying. SOOOO, what you prove at the track is what will sell products or in my case, services for your company. I happen to be in the tuning side of it. I've posted my accoplishments so i won't re-post, but i DO know what i'm doing as well as you also do. You are just going about it in a different way. If i don't agree with it, so be it. Again, i'm not going argue online when i type about as fast a snail. I'll be happy to debate in person if that day ever comes ;)

Remember the old saying, "There is more than one way to skin a cat"!! :lol:

djt81185

02-21-2006, 01:02 PM

Just kind of throwing it out there...the ones that talk technical get my money...then again I'm an engineer I love the details.

Dan

zinner

02-21-2006, 01:04 PM

Twincharged

02-21-2006, 01:28 PM

If you have ever riden in a Subaru with big injectors and a tuned ECU it doesn't idle so good.
It's great when your WOT and the boost is high but when your sitting at a light or tooling around town not optimal.

As for not getting technical you would be suprised how many people read the board and don't necessarily post. I wouldn't judge the members reading your posts only by the people that respond to posts here. :cool:

This is bacause they are putting in larger injectors and pulling back on the MAF/MAP sensors signals to compensate. The ECU doesn't like it and the Short/Long Term Fuel Trims get out of wack and the car won't stay in tune. The way around this is to lower the fuel pressure on the large injectors so that they match the factory injector's flow at idle. Then increase the pressure when the manifold pressure increases. Usually at the rate of 1:1.

We bypass this whole mess by retaining the factory injectors and using the auxillary injectors when needed.

zinner

02-21-2006, 01:45 PM

yeah I can't wait to see your fuel rail. :redx: hint hint ;)

memphisr24

02-21-2006, 01:54 PM

This is a little off topic, but hey twincharged, where are you in NJ? Maybe one day we can meet up so I can see how powerferul your car is. I'm still waiting to get my car back from the shop though :(

R33P3R007

02-21-2006, 01:55 PM

thats what I am saying. I just want to go fast. I read all these posts, and hope to learn from everyone.

but like was said before. What happens at the track will get my money.

I am not yet comfortable with all this technical stuff, but I am researching and learning, and until I am It all comes down to the End product.

FAST06SS

02-21-2006, 01:59 PM

This is bacause they are putting in larger injectors and pulling back on the MAF/MAP sensors signals to compensate. The ECU doesn't like it and the Short/Long Term Fuel Trims get out of wack and the car won't stay in tune. The way around this is to lower the fuel pressure on the large injectors so that they match the factory injector's flow at idle. Then increase the pressure when the manifold pressure increases. Usually at the rate of 1:1.

We bypass this whole mess by retaining the factory injectors and using the auxillary injectors when needed.

NO, the way you do it is by changing the injector flow rate table in the pcm!! ;) No idle problems or any problems for that matter. ;)

As for adding injectors, it was tried in the GN community awhile back with limited success so i guess thats why i don't embrace it.

Plus, it would be ALLOT easier getting inj's by warranty than an entire add-on fuel rail. Remember, warranty is a BIG issue among these guys :lol:

Again, we are going to appeal to differtent customers so good luck to us all! :twothumbs

Twincharged

02-21-2006, 02:10 PM

The rail has 1 proven benefit that your injectors do not. The added runner length adds HP and TQ. The intake manifold on the LSJ has no runner what so ever. The fuel plates adds in that much needed runner length.

We had a bone stock RL with the plate but no fuel being injected and running a stock pulley vs. a car with the RevItUp Stg1 2.8 pulley, run each other on the hiway. The Stg1 car edged out by barely half a car. That is a huge difference than the car totally stock vs. the Stg1. car, which was over 3 cars. Once we put the 2.8" pulley, tuned map, and injected fuel, it was GAME OVER.

Good luck with your injectors and reprogramming the factory PCM. ;)

djt81185

02-21-2006, 02:48 PM

FAST06SS

02-21-2006, 02:55 PM

Bad06SS

02-21-2006, 03:13 PM

Twincharged

02-21-2006, 04:18 PM

No offense, but how the heck is that an accurate test? You didn't do any dyno testing or track testing? How do you know that the difference wasn't just from one guy shifting faster than the other guy?! :lol: I prefer actually "data". :)

The power difference was more than obvious. No short delay in gear shift would make up this kind of ground.

It is the middle of winter here and there are no tracks open, or else I would be there instead of posting on the interweb. Specially considering that I live up the road from Atco Raceway. RevIt Up is getting their dyno 2 week from now, and trust me there will be a HUGE influx of dyno graphs for you all to jugle your nuts over :rolleyes:

Bad06SS

02-21-2006, 05:30 PM

The power difference was more than obvious. No short delay in gear shift would make up this kind of ground.

It is the middle of winter here and there are no tracks open, or else I would be there instead of posting on the interweb. Specially considering that I live up the road from Atco Raceway. RevIt Up is getting their dyno 2 week from now, and trust me there will be a HUGE influx of dyno graphs for you all to jugle your nuts over :rolleyes:

I don't "juggle my nuts" over dyno graphs. Dyno's are only good for helping get your car dialed in and to help with the A/F ratio. In other word's, dyno's are good for tuning only. ;) The only thing I'm worried about, are track times and trap speeds. That's what all of this comes down to for me. Being fast, and getting there as cheap as possible, while still being as reliable as possible. :)

Tiny@revitup

02-21-2006, 06:04 PM

I don't "juggle my nuts" over dyno graphs. Dyno's are only good for helping get your car dialed in and to help with the A/F ratio. On other word's, dyno's are good for tuning only. ;) The only thing I'm worried about, are track times and trap speeds. That's what all of this comes down to for me. Being fast, and getting there as cheap as possible, while still being as reliable as possible. :)

Hahaha, I just noticed that you and the other guy both have retired Impala's. Now I see the patern.

I would also like to make an observation to tie you in with a lot of the people that are making this sport so crappy "...getting there as cheap as possible...". That is a bold statement coming from someone who shares the same view of dyno's as the entire Revitup staff. I would have expected a little more from someone who knows cars, because cheap = get what you paid for.

Since everyone else is putting thier retired cars in thier Sig I guess I should update mine as well?

Bad06SS

02-21-2006, 06:18 PM

Hahaha, I just noticed that you and the other guy both have retired Impala's. Now I see the patern.

I would also like to make an observation to tie you in with a lot of the people that are making this sport so crappy "...getting there as cheap as possible...". That is a bold statement coming from someone who shares the same view of dyno's as the entire Revitup staff. I would have expected a little more from someone who knows cars, because cheap = get what you paid for.

Since everyone else is putting thier retired cars in thier Sig I guess I should update mine as well?

I Think you took my response out of context. Meaning, for example, your fuel rails idea. Yes, i'm sure it works good, and is probably more accurate than putting bigger injectors in and tuning them in. But the cost of your "secondary" injector kit is going to be much greater than tuning in bigger fuel injectors. Let's say I put my goal as 12's. Let's say I want mid to high 12's, safely, but not spending money on stuff that I don't "need". If I can get there by tuning in bigger injectors instead of your fuel rails idea, and save $1,000, then I went fast for as cheap as possible. You don't have to preach to the choir about the rule that you've to to pay to play. I would also never make "shortcuts" to save some money. Oh, and as far as the signature idea, I haven't seen anything else impressive in your signature, so why don't you enlighten me? ;)

Bad06SS

02-21-2006, 06:22 PM

Oh, and somthing else that came to my mind. Let all of your customers know that they can rest assured that all of the parts they buy have been thoroughly "track tested" on the highway. You can talk crap about me wanting to save some money on modding a car, but atleast I don't own a company that uses unreliable highway racing as data for the products I'm making. lol

Also, I would never tell someone that it's safe to run a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system!That's what bothers me the most! Even one of the moderator's realizes now that his IDC is 98% with a 3.0" pulley! Why do you think GM gives bigger fuel injectors before they even give a 3.1" pulley!? Take a hint! When hotter temps come around, there's going to be alot of chipped pistons following your advice! :nono:

FAST06SS

02-21-2006, 06:31 PM

zinner

02-21-2006, 07:33 PM

Bad06SS

02-21-2006, 08:34 PM

I have to agree, I don't know how the revitup kit is running a 2.8 pulley with stock injectors and getting more fuel out of them. Mine a pegged wide open from about 4000 rpm's up.

I think I have a good understanding of how the revitup kit works and I don't see the more fuel.

JMC007 also agrees that you can run a 2.8 on a stock 2005 Cobalt SS, however.

I will also admit that I know several people running the revitup/psi-fi kit and they have been running it in warmer climates and they haven't reported any problems yet.

But the reminds me of a brianmp5t comment about how in the beginning everyone was running 9 psi on there stock (mp5) engine no problems and then they started failling prematurely.

Well, I think I need to clarify my point a little. I'm not trying to vendor bash in any way. I saw A LOT of piston chipping when I was in the w-body world. Now I realize that they weren't intercooled from the factory, but every car is different! Revitup may have 5 cars that they've seen in person, and 50 cars that they've heard of not having a problem. But it only takes one person to say that their kit chipped a piston, for there to be a problem. Just for safe measure, and to be on the safe side, I'd recommend new fuel injectors for anyone who's Injector Duty Cycle is 85% or more. I just don't think it's good business practice to tell everyone that it's ok to run a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system. There might be one guy out in Florida who puts this kit on and blows his motor from being too lean, you never know. I encourage every vendor to do what they can to give the Cobalt SS/ION Redline a great aftermarket, but I also think that they need to research as best as possible the limitations of the factory parts, and try to make each upgrade as safe as possible. Just my opinion, who knows what it's worth. :)

theBLUEone

02-21-2006, 11:31 PM

This debate has been going on since the Intense Kit came out...

Personally, I agree with the Intense guys, I cannot see how the fuel system left stock can run a 2.8" pulley...

Rev It Up, you say the best way to add more fuel is to add more injectors, instead of throwing bigger ones on the car because that is the wrong way to do it... As the Intense guys stated, GM is going to do it with their kits as well...

Both Rev It Up and INTENSE seem like great companies and i'm happy that companies are producing products for our cars which is great, but I do feel Rev It Up and Intense have different ideas and projections for the future and thus this will always cause these arguements..

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 08:14 AM

I Think you took my response out of context. Meaning, for example, your fuel rails idea. Yes, i'm sure it works good, and is probably more accurate than putting bigger injectors in and tuning them in. But the cost of your "secondary" injector kit is going to be much greater than tuning in bigger fuel injectors. Let's say I put my goal as 12's. Let's say I want mid to high 12's, safely, but not spending money on stuff that I don't "need". If I can get there by tuning in bigger injectors instead of your fuel rails idea, and save $1,000, then I went fast for as cheap as possible. You don't have to preach to the choir about the rule that you've to to pay to play. I would also never make "shortcuts" to save some money. Oh, and as far as the signature idea, I haven't seen anything else impressive in your signature, so why don't you enlighten me? ;)

Have you actually tuned in larger injector PROPERLY on any LSJ? If not then how can you speculate the cost involved? What is your angle on posting here? What is your goal?

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 08:17 AM

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 08:26 AM

Well, I think I need to clarify my point a little. I'm not trying to vendor bash in any way. I saw A LOT of piston chipping when I was in the w-body world. Now I realize that they weren't intercooled from the factory, but every car is different! Revitup may have 5 cars that they've seen in person, and 50 cars that they've heard of not having a problem. But it only takes one person to say that their kit chipped a piston, for there to be a problem. Just for safe measure, and to be on the safe side, I'd recommend new fuel injectors for anyone who's Injector Duty Cycle is 85% or more. I just don't think it's good business practice to tell everyone that it's ok to run a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system. There might be one guy out in Florida who puts this kit on and blows his motor from being too lean, you never know. I encourage every vendor to do what they can to give the Cobalt SS/ION Redline a great aftermarket, but I also think that they need to research as best as possible the limitations of the factory parts, and try to make each upgrade as safe as possible. Just my opinion, who knows what it's worth. :)

75% of the tuning and testing of this kit was DURING the summer months. Also between RevIt UP myself and my tuning partner we have 3 LSJs and 1 2.4 Ecotec. Right there with our own cars we met what you speculated as our experience locally. That is not including customer's cars.

As for records Between all of us, worlds fastest and quickest street driven : Audi S4 and stock turbo S4, SRT4 (at the time and soon to be again) 1st gen neon, probably street driven LSJ (I will be sure to hit the track ASAP), PT cruiser 12.8 @ 115mph, TurboKompressor Mini cooper S , and the list goes on. SO stop that Jibber Jabber :spam:

If you can do it better then make a faster car and beat us our our game, I suggest you do it quick because we are almost done the final tune. (JUst waiting for the track to open ;) )

selfinfliction

02-22-2006, 08:35 AM

FAST06SS

02-22-2006, 08:43 AM

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 08:48 AM

twincharged....

i'm sure there are plans to run the revitup kits on cars with the gm stage kits already on. since these cars are going to have larger injectors, and a different flash, is it going to require a different revitup kit to make it work properly?, or is this something that you have to wait and get your hands on a car with a stage kit installed to test/verify everything?
I can easily make a map for it but I would have to get my hands on a car with this kit. What would be the benefit of having the GM kit?

Also as far as the way RevIt Up is tuning the car vs Intense, I could very easily config the SMT6 to runjust like the intense and pull back on MAF frequency to run larger injectors. In fact I did this over a year ago, but decided that reducing load reference resulted in too high of an ignition timing. How did I do this? I data logged both the OBDII, my wideband, as well as the SMT6 on the street as well as the dyno. The big problem was pulling back on load in the lower portion of the map (3k range) at wot. It would ramp the timing in excess of 28 degrees when stock is 15. This resulted in knock of over 4volts on the sensor. Ah what the hell do I know?

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 08:55 AM

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 08:58 AM

Whats the cost of your kits!! Sure hope it is plug and play! :lol: (side joke)

Just for the record to all who are to lazy to read the previous post, my intent was not to discredit ANY vendor or question thier products or abilities. My only question was HOW they could they recommend a 2.8" pulley is safe on a STOCK fuel system! Thats it.
To bad they got thier panties all rolled up the crack and couldn't answer my question, YET!

:twothumbs

As for track time, which one do you want us to bring? The 9sec GN, 11sec cam only 04 GTO, 11sec Impala, 11sec 04 MCSS Turbo, my Cobalt, the 10sec Cobra, ???????? :nono:

Bring any one of them and I will run it with my personal "Sport Compact Car" SRT4 seeing how it is a sport compact car that we are discussing here and not another V8 running 11s like every other one.

http://ndra.nopi.com/2k5gallery/NC/Turbo4/images/DSC_0162.jpg
http://ndra.nopi.com/2k5gallery/NC/Turbo4/images/DSC_0591.jpg

selfinfliction

02-22-2006, 09:03 AM

I can easily make a map for it but I would have to get my hands on a car with this kit. What would be the benefit of having the GM kit?

my thinking is that with the extra hp/tq, it will be a little easier to make a claim on a drivetrain warranty issue.

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 09:07 AM

my thinking is that with the extra hp/tq, it will be a little easier to make a claim on a drivetrain warranty issue.

To be honest it is hard to see the rail on the car due to the way it is positioned. The piggy back is the size of a cassette tape and can be hidden as well. If you take off the pulley, chances are the dealer won't know the difference, unless he is tearing the motor down. At that point he would notice bigger injectors and jumper wiring harness that come with other tuner kits.

FAST06SS

02-22-2006, 09:18 AM

It was datalogged multible times with a 2.8 pulley and us manipulating the map sensor as well as a few others we can and did retain an air fuel of 12.0:1 up to 6k where it leaned to 12.6:1 for the remaining 300 rpms. I am not going to tell you how we did it or how to tune the car for that matter. The point is we run a safe ignition timing curve where the highest I seen was 22 degrees on the top end. I have done a TON of data logging on this car, mostly street driving not just on the dyno, seeing how it is the street that the car is driven.

There is your answer plain and simple.

Let me re-cap here,

You guys fooling sensors is ok but another vendor it isn't, Check!

Adding a fuel rail, 4 more injectors, all the wiring and modiles and making it works better and more simple than just adding 4 bigger injectors and a properly tuned pcm, CHECK!

You admit the car is leaning out at higher rpm's but thats ok, check!

You know what you are doing because you have made totally unrelated 4 cyl cars fast but i don't know what i'm doing because i've worked only on v6 and v8 cars, Check!

Good luck! We all need it! ;)

Dman

02-22-2006, 09:18 AM

i just wish you guys would get us some more info on these upcoming kits...this money is burning a hole in my pocket...

djt81185

02-22-2006, 09:27 AM

75% of the tuning and testing of this kit was DURING the summer months. Also between RevIt UP myself and my tuning partner we have 3 LSJs and 1 2.4 Ecotec. Right there with our own cars we met what you speculated as our experience locally. That is not including customer's cars.

As for records Between all of us, worlds fastest and quickest street driven : Audi S4 and stock turbo S4, SRT4 (at the time and soon to be again) 1st gen neon, probably street driven LSJ (I will be sure to hit the track ASAP), PT cruiser 12.8 @ 115mph, TurboKompressor Mini cooper S , and the list goes on. SO stop that Jibber Jabber :spam:

If you can do it better then make a faster car and beat us our our game, I suggest you do it quick because we are almost done the final tune. (JUst waiting for the track to open ;) )

I'm wondering about the fastest 1st gen neon...do you have len ayala working with you guys? Cause he was running 9's while still driving it to the track then bolting the slicks on there...9.6 I believe. Either way keep up the good work. His car was the hahnracecraft development car/drag car

Dan

edit: Fastss06 They are fooling a sensor that when fooled will not cause massive ignition advance under conditions that are harmful to the motor. 12.6:1 isnt that lean at all. No one has officially cracked the pcm...it is vaporware until then.

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 09:35 AM

selfinfliction

02-22-2006, 09:35 AM

Let me re-cap here,

You guys fooling sensors is ok but another vendor it isn't, Check!

Adding a fuel rail, 4 more injectors, all the wiring and modiles and making it works better and more simple than just adding 4 bigger injectors and a properly tuned pcm, CHECK!

You admit the car is leaning out at higher rpm's but thats ok, check!

You know what you are doing because you have made totally unrelated 4 cyl cars fast but i don't know what i'm doing because i've worked only on v6 and v8 cars, Check!

Good luck! We all need it! ;)

i don't know half of the crap twincharged talks about, because it's way over my head but....

i thought he explained the extra injector advantage pretty clearly.

To be honest it is hard to see the rail on the car due to the way it is positioned. The piggy back is the size of a cassette tape and can be hidden as well. If you take off the pulley, chances are the dealer won't know the difference, unless he is tearing the motor down. At that point he would notice bigger injectors and jumper wiring harness that come with other tuner kits.

tht was what i was curious about. i know the pulley will have to be swapped back, but i didn't want to be uninstalling the electronics, fuel rail and pulley just for some work to be done :)

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 09:37 AM

I'm wondering about the fastest 1st gen neon...do you have len ayala working with you guys? Cause he was running 9's while still driving it to the track then bolting the slicks on there...9.6 I believe. Either way keep up the good work. His car was the hahnracecraft development car/drag car

Dan

edit: Fastss06 They are fooling a sensor that when fooled will not cause massive ignition advance under conditions that are harmful to the motor. 12.6:1 isnt that lean at all. No one has officially cracked the pcm...it is vaporware until then.

Steve Lockett is doing some of the tuning and some development with RevIt Up. More or less I am referring to the knowledge base within the company.

djt81185

02-22-2006, 09:41 AM

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 09:42 AM

i don't know half of the crap twincharged talks about, because it's way over my head but....

i thought he explained the extra injector advantage pretty clearly.

Rehash: Why the extra injectors are the best bet:
1 the car retains all fatory load references so fuel trim and ingition remains the same
2 more fuel than you will ever need with the factory blower and only when you need it
3 drivability because you do not have to modify the fatory loads to compensate for larger injectors
4 the factory fuel system functions at it's most efficient presssure which is factory.
5 extra intake manifold runner length.
6 simple solution that works.

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 09:43 AM

Ahhh good enough I think he has one of the fastest first gens in the stock chassis racing class iirc. Good stuff to know anyway. O yeah you asked about the advantage of the staged kits. Should eliminate the computer pulling boost (wont have to fool it anymore) and an increased redline with fuel tables already programmed in.

Dan

If I really wanted to I can raise the rev limiter to the sky, but the valve springs aren't up to the task. Also the fueling at the end of the RPM scale is not an issue what so ever with the fueler plate.

Dman

02-22-2006, 09:59 AM

If I really wanted to I can raise the rev limiter to the sky, but the valve springs aren't up to the task. Also the fueling at the end of the RPM scale is not an issue what so ever with the fueler plate.

so do yall plan to raise the limiter? i would love to be able to turn to 7k...i keep slapping the hell out of 1st and 2nd...

Tiny@revitup

02-22-2006, 10:00 AM

Let me re-cap here,

You guys fooling sensors is ok but another vendor it isn't, Check!

Adding a fuel rail, 4 more injectors, all the wiring and modiles and making it works better and more simple than just adding 4 bigger injectors and a properly tuned pcm, CHECK!

You admit the car is leaning out at higher rpm's but thats ok, check!

You know what you are doing because you have made totally unrelated 4 cyl cars fast but i don't know what i'm doing because i've worked only on v6 and v8 cars, Check!

Good luck! We all need it! ;)

This is going to be the last time I post on this thread, because it is getting out of hand, but the car is very touchy about the voltages, and the sensor that is being tricked by the MAF translator is pulling back so much fuel to copmensate for the bigger injectors that the car thinks it is decelorating and it throws over 25 degrees of timing at the car, which is what has been causing that phantom knock at around 3k. I hope you have found a way to smooth it out.

As far as the revitup kit, we have had it on the dyno, datalogged the car on the dyno and the street, changed back and forth between pullies and tunes to check all the variables, and we have found that it works.

To the guys telling us that the car is leaning out at 12.7:1 at the top of the RPM band, go back and read up on your tuning charts. There are different acceptable ranges for NA, superchargers, and turbo's., and we are within that acceptable range, so how is that wrong?

Lets move foward, and see what else we can do.

FAST06SS

02-22-2006, 10:11 AM

This is going to be the last time I post on this thread, because it is getting out of hand, but the car is very touchy about the voltages, and the sensor that is being tricked by the MAF translator is pulling back so much fuel to copmensate for the bigger injectors that the car thinks it is decelorating and it throws over 25 degrees of timing at the car, which is what has been causing that phantom knock at around 3k. I hope you have found a way to smooth it out.

As far as the revitup kit, we have had it on the dyno, datalogged the car on the dyno and the street, changed back and forth between pullies and tunes to check all the variables, and we have found that it works.

To the guys telling us that the car is leaning out at 12.7:1 at the top of the RPM band, go back and read up on your tuning charts. There are different acceptable ranges for NA, superchargers, and turbo's., and we are within that acceptable range, so how is that wrong?

Lets move foward, and see what else we can do.

I couldn't agree more!

Just a little FYI, under WOT, i'm skewing the MAFF 14% lean. I see about 19-20degrees timing MAX which sucks because i want 24deg all the time!

Personally, I HATE messing with the maff tables because they are the base that all the other parameters go from, just as you stated. In my Impala, i tuned with the IFR table to dial in my AFR to optimum for my combo. (key phrase ;) ) Didn't like messing w/the maff because it also affected the trans shifting as well. Sometimes though you have to make things work. Not pefect but it does function.

Your method will work, is it the best yes/no, as it depends on the intended application and goals and abilities from the customer. If we all made the same product, the customer would suffer. This way, they will all have multiple choices as all will work to a common goal of making more power!

As for your ealier comment on my typing, yes, i suck! My mind goes about 1000mph faster than my lame a$$ typing skills. I'm a technicin, not a typist! :lol:

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 10:18 AM

Stupid voice of reason
http://www.snabbstart.com/_images/_pics/_humor/citat-av-homer-simpson.jpg

Let me re-cap here,

You guys fooling sensors is ok but another vendor it isn't, Check! Yes because our tuning device has 3 dimenional tuning via TPS/MAP/RPM and can modify several sensors(O2 sensors, Maf,map and AIT)Yes because our tuning device has 3 dimenional tuning via TPS/MAP/RPM and can modify several sensors(O2 sensors, Maf,map and AIT)

Adding a fuel rail, 4 more injectors, all the wiring and modiles and making it works better and more simple than just adding 4 bigger injectors and a properly tuned pcm, CHECK! #1 you arent tuning the factory ECU #2 our way keeps all part throttle fuel trims in check the only mods are done at full load.

You admit the car is leaning out at higher rpm's but thats ok, check! The car runs up to 12.6/1 air fuel at the top end totally acceptable for this boost/ignition/RPM

You know what you are doing because you have made totally unrelated 4 cyl cars fast but i don't know what i'm doing because i've worked only on v6 and v8 cars, Check! As was said previous the shop employees and associates have a total of 4 ecotec cars(3 LSJ's and a 2.4 LE5), Our knowledge and experience is obviously good enough as we were a recommended engine management specialist in the build book and we tuned a GM Motorsports turbo ecotec for SEMA.

Good luck! We all need it!

In the end I don't see anyone posting on this forum or any other of any issues with the final version of the RevItUp STG1, but I do see it about others. In fact many PM me asking for info to help their issues. I have been there and I seen alot of the issues they are running into by having the wrong load value at the wrong time.

Bad06SS

02-22-2006, 01:25 PM

Umm Mr. Tuner when hotter temps come around then the air density is going to go down and so is fuel consumption requirments, but I am sure you knew that.

Also I ALWAY run my car at the track, but once again it is the dead of winter so you have to take a seat and wait like us.

Yup, and in the hotter temps, IAT's are higher, the air entering the engine is hotter, and there is much more risk of detonation, but you knew that right? Also, depending on your timing table (since added timing creates heat), you could need more fuel to overcome kr. But since we have plenty of room on the stock system for a 2.8" pulley, we'll never have to worry about kr of fuel no matter what the weather like, isn't that right? ;) :)

Bad06SS

02-22-2006, 01:30 PM

Have you actually tuned in larger injector PROPERLY on any LSJ? If not then how can you speculate the cost involved? What is your angle on posting here? What is your goal?

My goal is to eliminate this MYTH of running a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system. You talk about how good you are, and all the stuff you've done, I think you even mention tuning a Turbo car for GM? So are you BETTER than GM? Because even GM uses bigger injectors just to go to a 3.1" pulley. Wow, look at that, even GM uses bigger injectors and then tunes them in! Man, you must know more than GM, because otherwise they'd be using a fuel rail with secondary injectors! So again, if you're ways are proven, and they're better and more efficient, why does a multi-billion dollar company tune in bigger injectors on anything smaller than the stock pulley, but you say you don't have to, since the stock fuel system can run a 2.8" pulley?! :lol: ;) :)

Bad06SS

02-22-2006, 01:36 PM

75% of the tuning and testing of this kit was DURING the summer months. Also between RevIt UP myself and my tuning partner we have 3 LSJs and 1 2.4 Ecotec. Right there with our own cars we met what you speculated as our experience locally. That is not including customer's cars.

As for records Between all of us, worlds fastest and quickest street driven : Audi S4 and stock turbo S4, SRT4 (at the time and soon to be again) 1st gen neon, probably street driven LSJ (I will be sure to hit the track ASAP), PT cruiser 12.8 @ 115mph, TurboKompressor Mini cooper S , and the list goes on. SO stop that Jibber Jabber :spam:

If you can do it better then make a faster car and beat us our our game, I suggest you do it quick because we are almost done the final tune. (JUst waiting for the track to open ;) )

Aren't you the guy that has a twincharged LSJ that was supposedly beating Z06's? What happend to that? Where's the track times on that? Surely there's been a track somewhere near you open since you've had that? You post all of these accomplishments on all of these other cars, but no LSJ's? Also, you stated that you are posting for yourself, not for a company IE: Revitup-BUT YET, YOU'RE POSTING THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS? Please help me understand this hypocrite game you're playing? Also, you just put "at OUR game". :)

Bad06SS

02-22-2006, 01:43 PM

Where is this tunable factory ECU you speak of? Hey look there is a rainbow. Perhaps it's at the end with a pot of gold and luckycharms. Here is some milk so you can eat your check.
http://www.chex.com/images/products/pro_rice_main.jpg

FYI I speak for myself and not any vendor on this forum IE RevIt Up.

Ok, this last statement is incorrect. Look at this statement of yours:

You guys fooling sensors is ok but another vendor it isn't, Check! Yes because OUR tuning device has 3 dimenional tuning via TPS/MAP/RPM and can modify several sensors(O2 sensors, Maf,map and AIT)Yes because OUR tuning device has 3 dimenional tuning via TPS/MAP/RPM and can modify several sensors(O2 sensors, Maf,map and AIT)

Adding a fuel rail, 4 more injectors, all the wiring and modiles and making it works better and more simple than just adding 4 bigger injectors and a properly tuned pcm, CHECK! #1 you arent tuning the factory ECU #2 OUR way keeps all part throttle fuel trims in check the only mods are done at full load.

You admit the car is leaning out at higher rpm's but thats ok, check! The car runs up to 12.6/1 air fuel at the top end totally acceptable for this boost/ignition/RPM

You know what you are doing because you have made totally unrelated 4 cyl cars fast but i don't know what i'm doing because i've worked only on v6 and v8 cars, Check! As was said previous the shop employees and associates have a total of 4 ecotec cars(3 LSJ's and a 2.4 LE5), Our knowledge and experience is obviously good enough as we were a recommended engine management specialist in the build book and we tuned a GM Motorsports turbo ecotec for SEMA.

That's alot of our's and we's for someone who's just speaking for themselves. :thumbsdow

;)

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 01:58 PM

Ok, this last statement is incorrect. Look at this statement of yours:

You guys fooling sensors is ok but another vendor it isn't, Check! Yes because OUR tuning device has 3 dimenional tuning via TPS/MAP/RPM and can modify several sensors(O2 sensors, Maf,map and AIT)Yes because OUR tuning device has 3 dimenional tuning via TPS/MAP/RPM and can modify several sensors(O2 sensors, Maf,map and AIT)

Adding a fuel rail, 4 more injectors, all the wiring and modiles and making it works better and more simple than just adding 4 bigger injectors and a properly tuned pcm, CHECK! #1 you arent tuning the factory ECU #2 OUR way keeps all part throttle fuel trims in check the only mods are done at full load.

You admit the car is leaning out at higher rpm's but thats ok, check! The car runs up to 12.6/1 air fuel at the top end totally acceptable for this boost/ignition/RPM

You know what you are doing because you have made totally unrelated 4 cyl cars fast but i don't know what i'm doing because i've worked only on v6 and v8 cars, Check! As was said previous the shop employees and associates have a total of 4 ecotec cars(3 LSJ's and a 2.4 LE5), Our knowledge and experience is obviously good enough as we were a recommended engine management specialist in the build book and we tuned a GM Motorsports turbo ecotec for SEMA.

That's alot of our's and we's for someone who's just speaking for themselves. :thumbsdow

;)

I meant Mark and myself. Not anyone from RevIt Up. Keep fishing :nono:

Bad06SS

02-22-2006, 02:05 PM

I meant Mark and myself. Not anyone from RevIt Up. Keep fishing :nono:
]

Uh-huh. And the other post I made about GM? :)

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 02:10 PM

Aren't you the guy that has a twincharged LSJ that was supposedly beating Z06's? What happend to that? Where's the track times on that? Surely there's been a track somewhere near you open since you've had that? You post all of these accomplishments on all of these other cars, but no LSJ's? Also, you stated that you are posting for yourself, not for a company IE: Revitup-BUT YET, YOU'RE POSTING THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS? Please help me understand this hypocrite game you're playing? Also, you just put "at OUR game". :)

Man you are fishing stay on topic which is better and what is the difference. No tracks are open here Atco is getting repaved ( I live up the road from it). Englishtown is closed till March. I am telling you I live at the track. I am at a first and last name basis with everyone at these track because I am always there. Hell depending on who is there, i don't even have to pay.

My car is twincharged. It is the only one that I ever heard of that is running with a piggy back (not stand alone) engine managment. To me this says that we (Mark and I) have a pretty good grasp of how to get this car to function properly with more boost. I do have ties and connections within GM and GM racing. I have done work on Gary Gardella's turbo 2.2 Cobalt SEMA car. SO by all means tell me about your accomplishments with the LSJ or any recent variants of the Ecotec.

Mark and I came up with the tune when we owned Psi-Fi motorsports. RevIt Up now sell that. I don't see a dime from them sales. They now want to expand on that tune, so Mark and I are outsourced to do such. I am not RevIt Up nor do I speak for them in any way. I say what I want and have no one to answer to. I prefer it this way. ;)

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 02:17 PM

]

Uh-huh. And the other post I made about GM? :)

Actually Yes I am I guess. Russ from GM contacted us and asked us to help out on the project car that Gary was working on. They SPECIFICALLY wanted a piggyback solution to show the ability of this car to be upgraded or "Tuned". They were unable to come up with a solution and pushed the car into my shop. I had it up and running in 3 hours. This was all the ime I was alloted due to the car being scheduled for SEMA. I have pictures which I would be happy to post up when I get home.

As it stands now I am waiting for Joe (Gary's crew cheif) to give me a call back after he finishes fabricating up some new parts, then I will retune the car. Go fish :lol:

y2kzman

02-22-2006, 02:18 PM

So are you BETTER than GM? Because even GM uses bigger injectors just to go to a 3.1" pulley. Wow, look at that, even GM uses bigger injectors and then tunes them in! Man, you must know more than GM, because otherwise they'd be using a fuel rail with secondary injectors!

Your argument here is a false.
GM does this because they have access to the PCM and the rest of us do not, yet. With millions of dollars and hundreds of engineers to do the testing, they can change any engine parameter at will they do not have to fool anything. Those of us that do not have those facilities in our back yard must work around the stock ECU until someone cracks the code. Of course a fully tuned stock PCM would be great, but unless you are GM its not going to happen until the pcm is cracked.

I have had my Psi-fi kit for 5 months and 5000 miles. I have had no problems with a 2.8 pulley. I live in St Louis and when I got the kit it was still 90 degrees outside, this winter it has been below 30 degrees car has run great at both extremes. Just my opinion

Bad06SS

02-22-2006, 02:20 PM

Actually Yes I am I guess. Russ from GM contacted us and asked us to help out on the project car that Gary was working on. They SPECIFICALLY wanted a piggyback solution to show the ability of this car to be upgraded or "Tuned". They were unable to come up with a solution and pushed the car into my shop. I had it up and running in 3 hours. This was all the ime I was alloted due to the car being scheduled for SEMA. I have pictures which I would be happy to post up when I get home.

As it stands now I am waiting for Joe (Gary's crew cheif) to give me a call back after he finishes fabricating up some new parts, then I will retune the car. Go fish :lol:

Speaking of staying on topic, I'm not here to boast about myself, nor listen to you boast. I want to hear you tell me again that it's ok to run a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system, when even GM doesn't agree with that. :)

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 02:21 PM

you say you don't have to, since the stock fuel system can run a 2.8" pulley?! :lol: ;) :)

No I said there is more power to be had by having more fuel. GO back and reread. I stated that the STG1 is good enough to get you going and is plenty safe. Safe being the main word not the end all be all HP maker. Lets do this line the 2 cars up and let them run. Currently a STG1 car ran 13.8s. What did your's run since you are a track guy and all?

I garuntee that there will be allot more 13 and possible high 12 second cars out there once the stg2 hit the market.

The only cars I seen hit the track are RevIt Up customers. What happened to your? Oh thats right they are too nervous about the knock retard they are seeing.

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 02:25 PM

Speaking of staying on topic, I'm not here to boast about myself, nor listen to you boast. I want to hear you tell me again that it's ok to run a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system, when even GM doesn't agree with that. :)

You asked. :wtf:

Bad06SS

02-22-2006, 02:27 PM

Your argument here is a false.
GM does this because they have access to the PCM and the rest of us do not, yet. With millions of dollars and hundreds of engineers to do the testing, they can change any engine parameter at will they do not have to fool anything. Those of us that do not have those facilities in our back yard must work around the stock ECU until someone cracks the code. Of course a fully tuned stock PCM would be great, but unless you are GM its not going to happen until the pcm is cracked.

I have had my Psi-fi kit for 5 months and 5000 miles. I have had no problems with a 2.8 pulley. I live in St Louis and when I got the kit it was still 90 degrees outside, this winter it has been below 30 degrees car has run great at both extremes. Just my opinion

Ok, so you're saying that with access to the PCM, you can run a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system? Please tell me how my arguement is false. All you did was back me up-thanks. Yes, GM has spent millions and millions on research, and even they run bigger injectors to drop a pulley.

As far as your car goes. You proved nothing with your statement. Where is your scan data? Are you scanning for KR? What is your injector duty cycle? Where is the physical proof that your stock injectors are not maxed? In fact, I'm in St. Louis as well, let's meet up so that you can show me your scan data. :)

Bad06SS

02-22-2006, 02:30 PM

No I said there is more power to be had by having more fuel. GO back and reread. I stated that the STG1 is good enough to get you going and is plenty safe. Safe being the main word not the end all be all HP maker. Lets do this line the 2 cars up and let them run. Currently a STG1 car ran 13.8s. What did your's run since you are a track guy and all?

I garuntee that there will be allot more 13 and possible high 12 second cars out there once the stg2 hit the market.

The only cars I seen hit the track are RevIt Up customers. What happened to your? Oh thats right they are too nervous about the knock retard they are seeing.

The kit is safe.....meaning it's safe to run a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system? Please clarify. Also, I am NOT with INTENSE. I am my own person. I am all for seeing fast LSJ's. I encourage all of the vendors to come out with products. I am simply stating that I disagree with running a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system, and you've yet to prove me wrong? :)

Bad06SS

02-22-2006, 02:34 PM

You asked. :wtf:

Please ask where I told you to tell me that you fixed a car for SEMA? The only thing I'm asking from you, is to prove the theory of how safe it is to run a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system, which I've yet to see any proof that it's safe. :)

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 02:35 PM

The kit is safe.....meaning it's safe to run a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system? Please clarify. Also, I am NOT with INTENSE. I am my own person. I am all for seeing fast LSJ's. I encourage all of the vendors to come out with products. I am simply stating that I disagree with running a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system, and you've yet to prove me wrong? :)

It is obvious that I am not going to divoulge how I did it and what I am doing now otherwise I might as well throw away any investment I have into it. The point is in the end result. The car is making power and has a safe air/fuel and ignition timing period.

djt81185

02-22-2006, 02:35 PM

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 02:36 PM

Please ask where I told you to tell me that you fixed a car for SEMA? The only thing I'm asking from you, is to prove the theory of how safe it is to run a 2.8" pulley on a stock fuel system, which I've yet to see any proof that it's safe. :)

Originally Posted by Bad06SS
So are you BETTER than GM? Because even GM uses bigger injectors just to go to a 3.1" pulley. Wow, look at that, even GM uses bigger injectors and then tunes them in! Man, you must know more than GM, because otherwise they'd be using a fuel rail with secondary injectors!

There you go. You asked :twothumbs

GO here (http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource/downloads/gm_sport_compact_performance_build_book.pdf) then go to page 158 and see me there. :cool:

ray@revitup

02-22-2006, 02:38 PM

we have sold over 180 kits last year alone. and no issues :twothumbs

i had one issue with a car this week due to missfire but that was because the customer forgot to regao his plugs. he reggaped them and car is 100% :twothumbs many of our customers have ran 13.8's on stock tires :bye:

Bad06SS

02-22-2006, 02:44 PM

Last time I checked a myth is something fictional that does not exist. Believe it or not running cars do exist with a 2.8"...Therefore it is not a myth. The RIU/PS kits have been around since July of last year. No one has blown up with one there for it is a proven mod. And since you can run a 2.8 with a piggyback it must also be possible to run it if you had the pcm code because you'd have even more control over the car.

Stock fuel system yes...stock engine management no

Dan

O yeah I made some popcorn if anyone else wants some lol

Hope they dont lock this...there is actually good info in it.

I agree, I don't want this to get locked. What I would like to see is SCAN DATA. I want to see Injector Pulse Width, and Injector Duty Cycle of these cars running 2.8" pulley's on stock injectors. Does anyone have any scan logs? Seeing scan logs would put this to rest, since that's the only REAL PROOF that it's safe to run a 2.8" on a stock fuel system. :)

Bad06SS

02-22-2006, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Bad06SS
So are you BETTER than GM? Because even GM uses bigger injectors just to go to a 3.1" pulley. Wow, look at that, even GM uses bigger injectors and then tunes them in! Man, you must know more than GM, because otherwise they'd be using a fuel rail with secondary injectors!

There you go. You asked :twothumbs

Oh, ok. I just want to clarify that you think you're better than GM. I also want to clarify that you have no track times, or dyno numbers on your twincharged LSJ. :)

ray@revitup

02-22-2006, 02:47 PM

Oh, ok. I just want to clarify that you think you're better than GM. I also want to clarify that you have no track times, or dyno numbers on your twincharged LSJ. :)

i think its because the closest track thats opened is about 500 mi from his house due to weather. and yes there are dyno numbers available he will share if he feels like it.

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 03:01 PM

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 03:25 PM

RevIt Up gets their dyno next week. Once it is up and dialed in, there will be dyno graphs on everything and anything. As soon as the tracks open up then the numbers will go up. The RL will not be made into a track car because I have a SRT4 for a track car and intend on using it as such. I drive the RL as a daily driver.

FAST06SS

02-22-2006, 04:43 PM

Yeah why don't you post data logs of the Intense kits that you installed and tuned. Specifically low load WOT datalogs of the intense kit in regards to knock.

I can tell you this much. If I post a log of my twincharged car it would look just like a stock car ;)

To bad you don't live closer as i have no way to print this data out from my aeroforce gauge and wideband. I can tell you this though, 2.7" pulley, NO again NO KR!!! 17-19deg timing, maff is hitting 9100Hz, PW is at 16Ms. What else do you want?????

We dyno'd my car, posted the dyno sheet! I garantee you it's over 280HP to the wheels now but i'm not going to dyno it again until i get rid of the STOCK air intake! :lol:

Oh yea, Fuel trims, + or - 2 :twothumbs Go fish :lol:

Twincharged

02-22-2006, 04:50 PM

To bad you don't live closer as i have no way to print this data out from my aeroforce gauge and wideband. I can tell you this though, 2.7" pulley, NO again NO KR!!! 17-19deg timing, maff is hitting 9100Hz, PW is at 16Ms. What else do you want?????

We dyno'd my car, posted the dyno sheet! I garantee you it's over 280HP to the wheels now but i'm not going to dyno it again until i get rid of the STOCK air intake! :lol:

Oh yea, Fuel trims, + or - 2 :twothumbs Go fish :lol:

But what was the stock Cobalt SS/SC dyno numbers? 230whp?

ray@revitup

02-22-2006, 05:32 PM

sounds like dyno tunes dyno jet numbers, i remember reading once about a grand prix gtp that raced another gtp, they both dynoed the same whp but one was at dyno tune and the other one was elsewhere. the car that was dynoed elsewhere trapped like 4mph higher

ray@revitup

02-22-2006, 05:33 PM

how about some time slips

FAST06SS

02-22-2006, 06:00 PM

how about some time slips

Working on it! As your crony stated, it is winter time and everything is closed.

zinner

02-22-2006, 06:10 PM

I think the only way this can be settle is on an episode of Pinks

max_boost

02-22-2006, 06:12 PM

I think the only way this can be settle is on an episode of Pinks
The Intense Drag Day is comming up. That would be a great time to solve it, lol. I'd probably make a trip to Norwalk for that.

zinner

02-22-2006, 06:38 PM

Has to be a neutral site.

Best 3 out of 5 guys?

max_boost

02-22-2006, 06:41 PM

Has to be a neutral site.

Best 3 out of 5 guys?
Ohio is neutral, Bad06SS is from Indian and Twincharged is in Pennsylvania.

zinner

02-22-2006, 06:43 PM

I would hardly call "Intense Drag Day" a neutral site.

ray@revitup

02-22-2006, 06:48 PM

i think some of the intense customers should post up their times, i could care less about my own car, i radther my customers put up good times. :twothumbs i think that would be more neutral our customers vs theirs

JAESS

02-22-2006, 07:04 PM

Bolt me up some drag radials and I'm in for Revitup baby. :guns:
Joe

Hey ray I'll see ya saturday.
Thanks for calling me this morning. Great customer service.

ray@revitup

02-22-2006, 07:09 PM

Bolt me up some drag radials and I'm in for Revitup baby. :guns:
Joe

Hey ray I'll see ya saturday.
Thanks for calling me this morning. Great customer service. no problem ill be there all night putting together a turbo kit :cussing:

cvenom2122

02-22-2006, 07:23 PM

Ray i may be in for stage one and 2 soon ;) REV IT UP STYLE :cssNET:

theBLUEone

02-22-2006, 08:12 PM

I recieved my Intense kit today! Very nice looking! Can't wait to install it on the car! :twothumbs

cvenom2122

02-22-2006, 08:20 PM

Me and blueone will compete to see which kit is faster ;) delaware boys :twothumbs

RuSSo-29

02-22-2006, 10:18 PM

wow, NO WAY i just ready EVERY SINGLE PAGE!!!!! I'm gunna take a break, from "taking a break". I think after reading this whole thing, i went backwards in my search for the "BEST KIT" For me, Its not the $$$, exactly (Tho a slight factor) but who's gunna put up the best #'s with room for still upgrading / WHILE being safe for the LSJ. at least the most safe. for example, My Brain = Spam :spam: i love doing that!

I gues being that i have another month B 4 i actually get the SS S/C, so i suppose i'll wait till some #'s show up!

-BTW.... If your guys did it up on PINKS You guys would be responsable for bringing ALOT of GOOD PRESS for the Cobalt!
" TONIGHT ON PINKS, TWO COABLT TUNERS GO AT IT FOR THE CLAIM TO THE BETTER PERFORMANCE KIT"

just my $.02 either way, you guys both have madd props from me for at least tryin! Keep up the GREAT work! :cssNET:

memphisr24

02-22-2006, 10:22 PM

Yeah that would be a sick episode. That would finally settle the argument but then again maybe not. Sigh

Bad06SS

02-22-2006, 10:30 PM

RuSSo-29

02-22-2006, 10:46 PM

1st of all!!!!! ^^^^^^ I can't wait to see about the season! and..... i donno, i'm still messed up from reading this hole friggin novel ok REV vs. INT How about we get a cliff notes section! :guns:

selfinfliction

02-22-2006, 11:53 PM

Guys, please understand. I don't like all of this drama, and I don't want to seem like a jerk. But I know for a fact that a 2.8" pulley, regardless of how you tune it in, WILL MAX OUT YOUR STOCK FUEL INJECTORS! They can say all they want that it's safe, but I will disagree untill I see scan logs that show what I am wanting to see.

if you are so sure of it, do you not have hard data you can scan and post up here to prove your side for us to read?

you know, back in the early 1900's scientists believed that being black was because of a skin disease? (called negritude.. which also is the term for a movement started in the late 20's early 30's)... and these scientists were supposed to be educated people

i can say i know for a fact a trigger assembly for a nuclear device cannot be devised from aluminum because its properties are not consistant enough to maintain the required tolerances for proper operations... but you know what? i don't have any engineering charts to back it up :lol:

theBLUEone

02-23-2006, 12:05 AM

Me and blueone will compete to see which kit is faster ;) delaware boys :twothumbs

:guns: :twothumbs

djt81185

02-23-2006, 07:24 AM

if you are so sure of it, do you not have hard data you can scan and post up here to prove your side for us to read?

you know, back in the early 1900's scientists believed that being black was because of a skin disease? (called negritude.. which also is the term for a movement started in the late 20's early 30's)... and these scientists were supposed to be educated people

i can say i know for a fact a trigger assembly for a nuclear device cannot be devised from aluminum because its properties are not consistant enough to maintain the required tolerances for proper operations... but you know what? i don't have any engineering charts to back it up :lol:

Very true I know for a fact that if I make a 2.8" pulley out of unobtainium, press it onto the s/c with out any antiseize, and go out and run the combination of the injectors maxing out, the unobtainium friction welding to the ss on the s/c shaft and the combined effects of going 88 mph will simulate the effects of a Mr. Fusion which is just enough to power my flux capacitor to open a worm hole in the space time continium. But I have no hard data to prove this...but it true...honest. In 2456 its like we live in a copy of maxim magazine. I'm heading back right now.

Dan

selfinfliction

02-23-2006, 08:02 AM

Very true I know for a fact that is I make a 2.8" pulley out of unobtainium

:lol:

Twincharged

02-23-2006, 08:29 AM

FAST06SS

02-23-2006, 09:32 AM

It is what it is. There are a ton of people running the STG1 kit with no problems and nothing negative was posted on any of the forums. It has also been around the longest. We (Psi-Fi) started selling it summer of 05. That is more than I can say for anything else available today. In the end there is nothing that anyone can say to change that track record. If it is so bad for the car then surely there would be some snapped rings, burned valves, and melted pistons, but there are not.

Stop trying to put a negative spin on what opposes your sales at the end of the day. :thumbsdow

I don't "sell" products, i've said that a million times!! I'm a technician that repairs and tunes cars and on that note,

EVERYONE, PLEASE install a 2.8 or better yet a 2.6 pulley, leave everything else stock, run the shi# out of it so i have some work do in my shop this year! :lol:

EDIT: We need a big joke smiley to add to these sense some can't take MF joke!

ExHondaMan

02-23-2006, 09:44 AM

Twincharged

02-23-2006, 09:47 AM

I don't "sell" products, i've said that a million times!! I'm a technician that repairs and tunes cars and on that note,

EVERYONE, PLEASE install a 2.8 or better yet a 2.6 pulley, leave everything else stock, run the shi# out of it so i have some work do in my shop this year! :lol:

HMmm that is funny considering I found this
We are working VERY hard at bringing HIGH quality products out for you guys. Keep checking back often and Thanks!!
Rob

from here http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9348

http://www.owned.com/Owned_Pictures/fuckedyouyoungmanowned.jpg.jpg

Tiny@revitup

02-23-2006, 10:03 AM

or better yet a 2.6 pulley

Don't fit without machining the snout.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I just read some of the posts about nuclear bombs and ubatonium pulleys and I frigging lost it. Thats some funny stuff guys.

Twincharged

02-23-2006, 10:13 AM

Don't fit without machining the snout.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I just read some of the posts about nuclear bombs and ubatonium pulleys and I frigging lost it. Thats some funny stuff guys.

Thats funny cause as I searched for a nice owned pic I came across this.
http://www.owned.com/Owned_Pictures/needaleverowned.jpg.jpg

BullDog71ss

02-23-2006, 10:48 AM

FAST06SS

02-23-2006, 11:08 AM

HMmm that is funny considering I found this

from here http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9348

http://www.owned.com/Owned_Pictures/fuckedyouyoungmanowned.jpg.jpg

Yea , you got me, WTF ever! I hope to one day offer products, but since we are so new, we don't have the capital to invest so we share our ideas with people who have the capital to invest.

Maybe one day :cool:

Your posts and your attitude are getting old. Why don't you just shut the fuck up already

Would you like my address tough guy :guns:

Fish

03-31-2006, 06:39 AM

Go fish

Hey thats me. :guns:

Now now Rob. You always preach to me about how your not a bad guy and bla bla bla, yet here I am. Reading a 7 page thread. With you hating on another vendor. Gee how everywhere I see your name you do that. You do nothing but give yourself and Intense a bad name. You say you dont work for Intense, yet on CGP you bragged on how your partners or something. Seems like if its not Zooomer, its revitup now. I guess you need to hate someone on every board you goto.

Sorry everyone for the :spam: . Im sure both kits work well no matter how the setup is.

:cssNET:

FAST06SS

03-31-2006, 10:12 AM

Hey thats me. :guns:

Now now Rob. You always preach to me about how your not a bad guy and bla bla bla, yet here I am. Reading a 7 page thread. With you hating on another vendor. Gee how everywhere I see your name you do that. You do nothing but give yourself and Intense a bad name. You say you dont work for Intense, yet on CGP you bragged on how your partners or something. Seems like if its not Zooomer, its revitup now. I guess you need to hate someone on every board you goto.

Sorry everyone for the :spam: . Im sure both kits work well no matter how the setup is.

:cssNET:

FISH,
There is no hate for rev-it so STFU!

The ONLY question brought up was how they ran a 2.8 on stock injectors! NOTHING about thier abilities or products!!!!!

Just a simple question.

It's all good now.

Go back to clubzzp!

Bad06SS

03-31-2006, 11:42 AM