Let me try this again, i don't seem to be getting thru to people,

If your Injectors are static, (98%+ dutycycle or 20ms IPW @ 6K^) NO PCM TUNING OR TRICKERY is going to richen the AFR.

When a fuel curve is going lean, verified by 2 widebands at the same time, Injector duty cycle is 100%+, then it's time for bigger injectors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT piggy back maps, maffs, etc;!!!!

Now adding extra injectors is totally different solution and does work somewhat.

By the way, i found the limit of the 42lb injectors Could be the pump as well Didn't have my fuel pressure gauge on to verify at the time

 

Damn already! You don't stop! LOL...Are you working on more products?

 

Ok I did some testing tonight on the way home. I am hitting 100% on the injectors and I am creaping to the top of the 13's towards the end. But it's VERY cold out. I am going to put on the stock pulley and do some more tests this weekend.

Not sure how it's going to pan out in some more warm temps.


I also get no knock however.

 

This ia ll very good info people thanks. I think i might just wait for the GM kits though

 

 

Let me know what you find. It is cold here as well so fuel demands are higher and Inlet temps lower which help KR. I have a feeling that come summer, these will be pigs unless some changes are made.

 

There is plenty of pump to supply more fuel than you will ever need on that stock M62 no matter what pulley you run. I am pushing much more boost on the stock fuel pump and I have plenty left.

 

Thats stretching out a little bit don't you think. GM saw fit to change it just to run on the Phase5 car! So you are telling me you are not even close to that with a twincharged set-up?????

You are skirting my original question/debate/argument! You can't run a 2.8 on a stock fuel system safely!

 

You are saying that the car can't handle a 2.8" pulley without bigger injectors correct? Our A/F's on a fairly humid day were about 12.9/1 at the top of the gear (and remember, this is a S/C not a turbo, so the acceptable limits are a little different). That fact right there would say that there shouldn't be a problem. I understand that a lot of guys are throwing out duty cycles and milliseconds, but even though I don't like over 80% duty cycle, it's only happening for a short time and for about 500rpms, so it can be acceptable.

What people are failing to see is that we are fighting about pennies. There are always going to be the swingies that will jump on the back of one company or ther other, and try to fight about who is better, but the fact of the matter is that both kits accomplish the same thing just a little differently.

Revitup, however, has the option of 3 more kits, 2 of which will add on to the stage 1 that is already out, so it's just a little more incentive to go with that company first. Stage 2 is going to be the addition of the RU-FAT with an extra fuel rail, 4 extra injectors, full tuning of all MAP and MAF sensors, added air velocity from the addition of an intake runner, and all kinds of other goodness. So argue about stage 1 all you want, stage 2 is going to kill all of that "lack of injector" talk. With stage 3 we are talking about BIG power for not too much more money over the stage 2.

Stage 4 is rediculous. The maps are done, the tuning is almost finished, and that thing is purring now.

If you want to buy the intense kit or the revitup kit, please, get either one. It's a lot more fun when the car goes faster, and if all you want is a little bump then you don't have to worry about anything.

However, as sad as it is, there are a lot of companies out here that are selling products on the sheer fact that they are good at making fun of other people. If you are going to buy something, buy it because of how good it works and how positive the benifits are. Don't base your decision on the word of people you don't even know telling you that the other guy "sucks and will blow your car up because of all these numbers that i'm going to throw at you that make no sense and can't be substantiated on anything other then my word".

I will be happy to go through the logic of the revitup kit and the descisions behind some of the tuning, and tell people why we did what we did. I'll make you see that we know what we are doing, and I won't ever knock someone else's stuff. I am confident in our products. I can even do some data logging if people want to come down to our shop and we'll educate you if you want. We are in this because we like to do it.

 

Hes saying the 2.8 on a stock fuel pump is a none issue...Though I know you wil run out of injector before you run out of pump. I think that is what he is trying to say

 

First off you need to understand what air fuels are optimal at what phase in the combustion process. You can get away with a little leaner mixture in the upper RPMs when you are well past peak cylinder pressure. Much of the richen mixture is to cool and retard the combustion where the cylinder needs it. In this case 4-5.5k rpms are peak pressures. 6-6.5k rpms can run leaner with out detriment. Mind you I am talking in the upper 12:1 A/F ratios. Is this optimal for HP? No. There is more power to be had with an overall proper air/fuel ratio. Either way I would prefer a leaner mix over a rich mix with WAY TO MUCH ignition. From my experience it doesn't take much reduction in frequency to crank out alot of timing. Fear timing.

Once again there is plenty of fuel supply to the injectors for future mods. By the time you out flow the pump you will have to use a standalone ECU and the fuel supply will be the least of your worries.

Oh and as an FYI the phase 5 cars are built off a 2.2liter Cobalt coupe. It has a different fuel pump than the SS, so of course they needed to change it.

 

One last thing to say,

See ya at the track!!!!!!!!!!!! That is where the BS stops and results speak OUT LOUD!!!!


I agree with allot of what you are saying you being a little hypocritical in your statement.

I offer NO products, only services so your argument has nothing to do with me!


By the run, your car thru the entire 1/4 mile and report back. You'll see what i'm talking about Running up thru 1 gear tells you NOTHING!

Peace

 

Thats cool!


But i think 4 60lb injectors and ONE pcm tuned by me will be much cheaper and better

 

Once again, tell people why it's better, not just that it is. I still can't discern much of what you are writing anyway, either because you are typing too fast or you are a little jumbled yourself Besides, you are talking about about a small piece of the bigger picture anyway. If you want to cencentrate all your time on that little upgrade thats awesome, and i'm sure that is whats best for you, but we are getting crazy and calling on some really trick technology to take things to the next level.

We already know what the stage 1 does on the track, so now we just have to get past high 13's and it's an improvement!!

 

When are we going to hear more about RIU stage 2 and 3...tax return comes in on Friday. I want to buy buy buy. If nothing else PM me.

Thanks,

Dan

 

Like was stated above, WHY get over technical when 95% of the people reading it (no offense) have no clue what you are saying. SOOOO, what you prove at the track is what will sell products or in my case, services for your company. I happen to be in the tuning side of it. I've posted my accoplishments so i won't re-post, but i DO know what i'm doing as well as you also do. You are just going about it in a different way. If i don't agree with it, so be it. Again, i'm not going argue online when i type about as fast a snail. I'll be happy to debate in person if that day ever comes


Remember the old saying, "There is more than one way to skin a cat"!!

 

Just kind of throwing it out there...the ones that talk technical get my money...then again I'm an engineer I love the details.

Dan

 

If you have ever riden in a Subaru with big injectors and a tuned ECU it doesn't idle so good.
It's great when your WOT and the boost is high but when your sitting at a light or tooling around town not optimal.

As for not getting technical you would be suprised how many people read the board and don't necessarily post. I wouldn't judge the members reading your posts only by the people that respond to posts here.

 

This is bacause they are putting in larger injectors and pulling back on the MAF/MAP sensors signals to compensate. The ECU doesn't like it and the Short/Long Term Fuel Trims get out of wack and the car won't stay in tune. The way around this is to lower the fuel pressure on the large injectors so that they match the factory injector's flow at idle. Then increase the pressure when the manifold pressure increases. Usually at the rate of 1:1.

We bypass this whole mess by retaining the factory injectors and using the auxillary injectors when needed.

 

yeah I can't wait to see your fuel rail. hint hint

 

This is a little off topic, but hey twincharged, where are you in NJ? Maybe one day we can meet up so I can see how powerferul your car is. I'm still waiting to get my car back from the shop though

 

thats what I am saying. I just want to go fast. I read all these posts, and hope to learn from everyone.

but like was said before. What happens at the track will get my money.

I am not yet comfortable with all this technical stuff, but I am researching and learning, and until I am It all comes down to the End product.

 

NO, the way you do it is by changing the injector flow rate table in the pcm!! No idle problems or any problems for that matter.

As for adding injectors, it was tried in the GN community awhile back with limited success so i guess thats why i don't embrace it.


Plus, it would be ALLOT easier getting inj's by warranty than an entire add-on fuel rail. Remember, warranty is a BIG issue among these guys


Again, we are going to appeal to differtent customers so good luck to us all!

 

The rail has 1 proven benefit that your injectors do not. The added runner length adds HP and TQ. The intake manifold on the LSJ has no runner what so ever. The fuel plates adds in that much needed runner length.

We had a bone stock RL with the plate but no fuel being injected and running a stock pulley vs. a car with the RevItUp Stg1 2.8 pulley, run each other on the hiway. The Stg1 car edged out by barely half a car. That is a huge difference than the car totally stock vs. the Stg1. car, which was over 3 cars. Once we put the 2.8" pulley, tuned map, and injected fuel, it was GAME OVER.

Good luck with your injectors and reprogramming the factory PCM.

 

Hehe I knew I loved you guys when you were just working on srt-4's for a reason...Can't wait for the kits...I'm thinking the motorcycle is gonna go up for sale tonight

Dan