The following is a list of the different computers used in different Ecotec installations. Pin out diagrams that I could find are lower in the thread.

Notes:
"PCM" Powertrain controller, which can operate an engine and transmission. Computer starts with a "P"
"ECM" Engine controller only. Computer starts with an "E"
"TCM" Transmission controller. Only in vehicles with an automatic transmission. The device is a slave to the ECM. In manual transmission car, the TCM is not installed.

J-bodies:
2002-2005 L61 equipped cars:
PCM: P11

Deltas:
2003-2006 L61 Ions
2005-2006 L61 Cobalts
ECM: E16A
TCM: T42

2007-current model L61 Cobalts, Ions, G5's
ECM: E37
TCM: T42

2004-2006 model LSJ Ions
2005-2007 model LSJ Cobalts
PCM: P12
Note: The P12 unit could in fact operate a transmission in this application. It is simply not used. However, somebody using HP Tuners on this computer will find variables for it on the 2005-06 cars. In 2007, they removed those variables.

2006-current model LE5 Cobalt, G5's
ECM: E67
TCM: T42

2006-current model LE5 Sky, Solstice
ECM: E67
TCM: ? (5L40E trans)

LNF Cars:
Sky Redline
ECM: E69

Credit to Witt and WopOnTour for some research notes.

All of the above computers are supported by HP Tuners except for the E16A. The E37 and E69 are in beta test right now, but not yet available in public release. The E16A is reported by HP Tuners as being scheduled for support in the first half of 2007. It is also reported to be supported by SCT Flash as part of the Garrett turbo package release in first quarter 2007.

LNF Kappas use an E69 ECM.
LE5 Kaps use the E67

The P12 note is redudant, its a PCM, its supposed to be able to operate a transmission. I'm assuming you mean TCM parameters.

The P12 note is redudant, its a PCM, its supposed to be able to operate a transmission. I'm assuming you mean TCM parameters.I disagree that the footnote should be considered "redundant"
I personally think it is somewhat interesting it's a PCM used on the SS/SC and IRL models that do NOT have an automatic transaxle as an option (Unlike the J-body for instance) and illuminating the possibility that perhaps someone might want to attempt to take advantage of those dormant controls at some time. (Should all the neccessary hardware exist of course) :wink:
Wop

Looks like all I need is the TCM's. Thanks for the help so far.

Do we know if HP Tuners supports the LNF E69?

I disagree that the footnote should be considered "redundant"
I personally think it is somewhat interesting it's a PCM used on the SS/SC and IRL models that do NOT have an automatic transaxle as an option (Unlike the J-body for instance) and illuminating the possibility that perhaps someone might want to attempt to take advantage of those dormant controls at some time. (Should all the neccessary hardware exist of course) :wink:
Wop
Ok, now that I read it again, I see whats being said. The note seemed like it pointed out that the PCM was unusual because it contained transmission controls. Its just that they all do and not one is being used in that capacity, I think that is what you're saying.

Looks like all I need is the TCM's. Thanks for the help so far.

Do we know if HP Tuners supports the LNF E69?
As of now, HPT does not support the LNF Kappas or the TCM in the LE5 Kappas.

TCM used in the 2003-2006 Cobalt/ION/Pursuit/G5 equipped with a 4T45E is known as a T42
(Still checking on 07)
Wop

I would like to expand the thread by asking which of the listed cars uses the GM CAN bus? I know not all of the Cobalts do.

I would like to expand the thread by asking which of the listed cars uses the GM CAN bus? I know not all of the Cobalts do.All Cobalt's use CAN (GM LAN) to some extent.

A 2.2 or 2.4 Cobalt uses both GM LAN High Speed and Low Speed bus networks.

The 2.0 LSJ also has GM LAN however the P12 PCM is "primarily" Class 2 (J1850 VPW) for items such as service programming as well as diagnostics and and scan tool interface. But the LSJ PCM is still connected to the GM LAN network (High Speed) to provide certain multi-plexed feature functionality such as Theft Deterrant. Items such as radio and the IP Cluster on the Low Speed GM LAN network.
HTH
WopOnTour

PS>LNF Engine Managment is actually Bosch MED9.6

Here's a schmatic showing the HS GM LAN for the 2005 Cobalt

We now have Pin-Out diagrams for several model Ecotec ECM's. Follow the links:

02 Alero (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/02alero22.htm)
02-05 Cavalier / Sunfire (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/02sunfirecav22.htm)
03-? Ion (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/03ion22.htm)
05-07 Cobalt LSJ (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/05cobalt20.htm)
05-06 Cobalt L61 (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/05cobalt22.htm)
06 Solstice (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/06solstice24.htm)
07 Solstice (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/07solstice20.htm)

I just wanted to point out that your listing certain modules as "PCM" and "ECU" does not match up to what that above document says. IE: it calls the 2005 L61 computer a PCM while you call it a ECM in your first post. What is correct?

That's a pretty nice catch!
Looks like 1/2 just has the links for the LSJ and the L61 switched up is all
WOT

I didn't notice that before, thanks for pointing it out. Fixed the links.

WTF does all this exactly mean?? lol

2002-2005 L61 equipped cars:
PCM: P11

this is me. i have a 2.2....hptuners doesnt support this, so whats the deal?

It means that if you have an Ecotec powered J-body car, which is a Cavalier or Sunfire, your engine is managed by model P11 PCM computer. And yes, HP Tuners DOES support that car.

Any updates for the '08 models? Thanks

Carry over from 07 (well except the P12 was dropped along with the LSJ) :bye:
Wop

So the E67 is still used in the Solstice? I'm trying to find out if HP Tuners will support the 08 or not.

Well, I haven't been on here in a while. Are the 2007 L61 cars supported by HP Tuners yet? the first post says it was last edited on 8/11/2007 and it still says the E37 is in beta. Is this still the case? I may be trading my 2006 in for a 2007 or 2008 model and the tuning is an important consideration for me. I've been screwed out of tuning on this Cobalt and my previous 2003 Cavalier. I don't want to deal with that again.

No, it is still not supported. You can always check the HPT web site directly to view the current version and supported vehicle list.

We are actually more hopeful about SCT supporting the car. They have a tune for the Garrett turbo kit, but have not included the support in their tuner software. That is our best hope.

Thanks for the information. You've probably answered that question a hundred times and I appreciate it. Is SCT also going to have support for the E16 in my 2006? I'm gonna look it up now.

Thanks for the information. You've probably answered that question a hundred times and I appreciate it. Is SCT also going to have support for the E16 in my 2006? I'm gonna look it up now.

The ball is in Garrett's court. They paid SCT to crack the E16, so they get to hold onto it. SCT can't release anything without them giving the thumbs up.

But if they did, the code is the same for both the 2005 and 2006. So yes, it would work, if they did it.

TCM used in the 2003-2006 Cobalt/ION/Pursuit/G5 equipped with a 4T45E is known as a T42
(Still checking on 07)
Wop

so your saying that any of these vehicles with the 4t45e have interchange able tcm's. so i could take a tcm from an 03 ion and put it into an 05 cobalt?

Yes, with a great big but...

...but, you would need to have the TCM reflashed by a GM dealer to match the VIN number of the vehicle you where sticking it in, and with the latest software version for the chassis.

Basically put, the hardware is exactly the same. The software is different.

Yes, with a great big but...

...but, you would need to have the TCM reflashed by a GM dealer to match the VIN number of the vehicle you where sticking it in, and with the latest software version for the chassis.

Basically put, the hardware is exactly the same. The software is different.

that sounds easy enough to do....

does anyone know the pinouts or the 2007 2.2 ecu yet...

Deltas:
2003-2006 L61 Ions
2005-2006 L61 Cobalts
ECM: E16A
TCM: T42
So according to this I can tune my trans with HPT but not my engine right? A friend of mine has HPT on his computer to tune his GP GTP and if this is possible I may just have him increase my line pressure without getting a B&M Shift Plus.

Also by that logic since HPT can talk to my trans it could also delete/raise my speed limiter since that would be directly related to transmission function and has nothing to do with engine function right? Same with shift points(although that doesnt matter right now since the engine is all stock)?

so much for the E16a support via HPT. That shit will never come out. Been on the back burner for a long time.

subscribed for the awesome pinouts

Bump for my question.

So according to this I can tune my trans with HPT but not my engine right? A friend of mine has HPT on his computer to tune his GP GTP and if this is possible I may just have him increase my line pressure without getting a B&M Shift Plus.

Also by that logic since HPT can talk to my trans it could also delete/raise my speed limiter since that would be directly related to transmission function and has nothing to do with engine function right? Same with shift points(although that doesnt matter right now since the engine is all stock)?

Unfortunately, no, that's all incorrect.

In order for HPT to get to your trans controller, it has to go through the engine controller. The trans controller is a slave device. And since HPT can not communicate with the ECM, it won't be able to get to the TCM.

Additionally, the speed limiter is an Engine control function, not a trans function.

Unfortunately, no, that's all incorrect.

In order for HPT to get to your trans controller, it has to go through the engine controller. The trans controller is a slave device. And since HPT can not communicate with the ECM, it won't be able to get to the TCM.

Additionally, the speed limiter is an Engine control function, not a trans function.

I can verify what Halfcent has said. I've tried to communicate with an 06 L61 Cobalt with HPTuners and it will not work. It treats the entire system as a single computer and if it can't talk with the ECM, it fails.

F***ing gay!

I cant believe that... Stupid GM... Doesnt it look like it should on paper though.

A friend of mine who is a Cobb tuner(actually took the classes and everything) for subies and evos is wanting to play around with my e16a, he said if he can pill the PROM off my computer he could reflash it however I want it. He told me I could get up with him Sunday if I am not working. He also said that if it didnt work I could use the 2.4 auto ECU and it should run fine, then I could have tuning ability... It would run rich until tuned but it should be plug and play. If he finds the loop it looks like NC has an official 2.2 tuner.

A friend of mine who is a Cobb tuner(actually took the classes and everything) for subies and evos is wanting to play around with my e16a, he said if he can pill the PROM off my computer he could reflash it however I want it. He told me I could get up with him Sunday if I am not working. He also said that if it didnt work I could use the 2.4 auto ECU and it should run fine, then I could have tuning ability... It would run rich until tuned but it should be plug and play. If he finds the loop it looks like NC has an official 2.2 tuner.
This has been discussed in dozens (maybe hundreds?) of other threads. Sounds like your buddy probably isnt real familiar with late-model GM electronic control systems.e.g. There is no PROM to "pull" as the firmware and calibration details are all part of flashable ROM embedded directly into the hardware.In a nutshell, besides simple basic stuff like different connectors and such there are other more serious "issues" and significant compatabilities with things such as differences in the IGN systems (and silly annoying things such as incompatible network IDs) that make swapping ECMs a difficult, if not impossible, solution (well not technically IMPOSSIBLE-you can accomplish almost anything with enough $$) :cool:
Good luck with that...

WOT

I'll be sending him a link to this to see what he thinks...

the 2.2 and 2.4 computers are NOT swappable

the 2.2 and 2.4 computers are NOT swappable
http://www.centexcarclub.com/forum/images/smilies/mad0228.gif

I've heard that the no lift shift of the 08 SS/TC is all computer controlled (no physical parts)...if the LNF uses a PCM like the one in a 06 SS/SC does that mean someone may be able to get no lift shift on an SS/SC...or perhaps its a slave module? - I dont know much about this subject its just an idea being thrown out there. - But then again the SS/TC needs to be in performance mode to utilize that function where the SS/SC doesnt have such a thing so maybe it wouldn't work - but hypothetically could you reprogram an LNF SS/TC computer and slap it on a LSJ car with everything adjusted just right?.

Probably not. Flash tuning programs have the ability to modify the parameters of existing programs. They can not write completely new code.

Probably not. Flash tuning programs have the ability to modify the parameters of existing programs. They can not write completely new code.That, and the fact that the LNF turbos use a Bosch ME9 ECM which is totally incompatible with almost any of the existing LSJ hardware...
WOT

i have never felt more dumb in my life haha, i guess that it is good that i realize this and am not too confident, i am about to purchase the HPtuner and am not sure A.) which one, such as the pro edition or the normal one, and B.) how do i unlock the horespower this engine has, i hear that they tuned it conservatively but how do i undo that? lol i have read a lot but i see moar in my future!

HPTuners is not for the amateur tuner. You need to know what you are doing. I would actually suggest taking you car to a shop to have a tune made rather then trying to do it yourself. It will probably cost you less too.

well, i still wanna learn it so maybe i could just buy a crappy car and mess with the tuning on it lol, but for my car, i may bring it somewhere just to make sure and hopefully get some kind of warranty.

the 2.2 and 2.4 computers are NOT swappable
Proof?

Proof?

Experience.

Here's a question for you. What would make you think that you can swap them? They are completely different.

We now have Pin-Out diagrams for several model Ecotec ECM's. Follow the links:

02 Alero (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/02alero22.htm)
02-05 Cavalier / Sunfire (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/02sunfirecav22.htm)
03-? Ion (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/03ion22.htm)
05-07 Cobalt LSJ (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/05cobalt20.htm)
05-06 Cobalt L61 (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/05cobalt22.htm)
06 Solstice (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/06solstice24.htm)
07 Solstice (http://cobaltss.net/resources/pcm/07solstice20.htm)

Does anyone know pins are stage3 nos pins on the P12 PCM?
And who makes the P12 PCM for GM?
Thanks

so if i was to flash the TCM with my VIN , and repin my 05 LT A4 harness for a 2.4 PCM...whats to stop it from working???
I really wanna use my HPTuners to tune my Cobalt ...

so if i was to flash the TCM with my VIN , and repin my 05 LT A4 harness for a 2.4 PCM...whats to stop it from working???
I really wanna use my HPTuners to tune my Cobalt ...

Why are you making life harder on yourself?

Just get a trifecta tune and call it a day. Hell, Vince at Trifecta will even let you dyno tune it when he has time.

Why are you making life harder on yourself?

Just get a trifecta tune and call it a day. Hell, Vince at Trifecta will even let you dyno tune it when he has time.

there are those of us that would prefer to tune our cars ourselves....and not worry about going back and forth and dealing with another party. so if he is able to do it let him. if not o well

so if i was to flash the TCM with my VIN , and repin my 05 LT A4 harness for a 2.4 PCM...whats to stop it from working???
I really wanna use my HPTuners to tune my Cobalt ...

Your TCM is already flashed with your VIN.

The LE5 engines don't use a PCM.

The E67 software is not compatible with the other CAN BUS items in the E16 cars.

You will never be able to use HPT on an L61 engine. HPT will not support it.

Get the AEM F/IC. Then get Trifecta to make you a tune that will allow the E16 to play nice with it. That way you only have to flash your ECM once, and can still make changes at home via the piggyback. That's how I plan to do it.

ok so here's a scenario, find a wrecked balt with different motor/ecm configuration. whats to stop you from swapping the ecm/tcm, wiring harnesses and all components that run off the can bus system? for instance converting an LSJ to an LNF car.

Your TCM is already flashed with your VIN.

Imeant the new TCM from the donor.

The LE5 engines don't use a PCM.

What? What does it use then?

The E67 software is not compatible with the other CAN BUS items in the E16 cars.

You will never be able to use HPT on an L61 engine. HPT will not support it.

Get the AEM F/IC. Then get Trifecta to make you a tune that will allow the E16 to play nice with it. That way you only have to flash your ECM once, and can still make changes at home via the piggyback. That's how I plan to do it.

Well aint that a bitch....What CAN BUS items are we talking about?

Does anyone have any experience using the AEM F/IC? Man HPTuners really makes it difficult for us 2.2 guys... I just wanna turbo the darn thing lol. HPTuners is so dang easy to use...I really wanted to use it on this ride.

Im going to check out that AEM peice...Ive never used a piggyback before thats why I just wanted to stick with the HPTuners but I guess its good to learn new things.....

ok so here's a scenario, find a wrecked balt with different motor/ecm configuration. whats to stop you from swapping the ecm/tcm, wiring harnesses and all components that run off the can bus system? for instance converting an LSJ to an LNF car.

You need to do a lot more reading of that topic here on this forum. It was covered extensively back in 2005 when the L61 and LSJ cars first came out. You can't do it. The ECM's in these cars are each individually so different that the rest of the car can not function without it's original. Don't think about the ECM as a stand-alone component, because it's not. It's a part of a complete system of operating modules that are all connected together via a network. ABS, BCM, TCM, many more, will just not communicate with anything different then what was originally installed.

You need to do a lot more reading of that topic here on this forum. It was covered extensively back in 2005 when the L61 and LSJ cars first came out. You can't do it. The ECM's in these cars are each individually so different that the rest of the car can not function without it's original. Don't think about the ECM as a stand-alone component, because it's not. It's a part of a complete system of operating modules that are all connected together via a network. ABS, BCM, TCM, many more, will just not communicate with anything different then what was originally installed.

nevermind you misunderstood the question completely.....

You need to do a lot more reading of that topic here on this forum. It was covered extensively back in 2005 when the L61 and LSJ cars first came out. You can't do it. The ECM's in these cars are each individually so different that the rest of the car can not function without it's original. Don't think about the ECM as a stand-alone component, because it's not. It's a part of a complete system of operating modules that are all connected together via a network. ABS, BCM, TCM, many more, will just not communicate with anything different then what was originally installed.

i think jimbo meant, what if, we took all the abs bcm tcm ecm ecus etc etc. out of a 2.4 or 2.0 and put all those components and wiring harness into a 2.2 theoretically it would have to work? yes its alot of work but it would have no choice but to work properly and then tuning with hpt would be possible

i think jimbo meant, what if, we took all the abs bcm tcm ecm ecus etc etc. out of a 2.4 or 2.0 and put all those components and wiring harness into a 2.2 theoretically it would have to work? yes its alot of work but it would have no choice but to work properly and then tuning with hpt would be possible

Im sure if u knew which parts communicate through the network, swapped them, repinned the ecu, and made sure all VINs and network IDs match u could but daayum waay too much money and work.....Imma say F it on this one lol

I know exactly what he meant. And for the cost of doing all of that, it's cheaper to just trade in the car for the right one to start with. I'm not being a smart ass about that, it's completely true. And nothing but the E16 can run the L61 engines in the 2005-06 Cobalts because of their unique ignition system.

instead of switching pins on the ecm's and swapping engines, it would be easy to get a j-boby ecotec moter and ecm with wiring and drop that in, all you would have to do is install the cable throttle body....

I read and did a search, and did not find this correction. the 07 ion 2.2 uses the e67, not the e37.