Mods.. Can we make this a sticky because there are atleast 1 new supercharger swap topic a day.

Let's start off with your stock Eaton M62.
[img]http://www.magnusonproducts.com/images/mp62draw.jpg
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/images/mp62g1.jpg
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/images/mp62g2.jpg



Eaton 4th Gen M90

The ones who want to go with an eaton M90. Going to the M90 gives you additional cfm over the M62. They can also be had for around 600 dollars. All you would need would be an adapter plate for the Intercooler and for the Throttle body. Any good shop can fab you up these item's for a few hundred dollars. If i had to guess on power gains. 10 Psi with a M90 should get you 250-260 wheel horsepower.

http://www.harrop.com.au/site_resources/524/616/image/m90.jpg
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/images/mp90draw.jpg
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/images/mp90g1.jpg
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/images/mp90g2.jpg

The Roots Supercharger (aka "blower")
The roots supercharger was originally designed as an air moving device for industrial buildings. The roots supercharger features two counter-rotating lobes that trap air from the intake side of the supercharger (normally at the back of the supercharger), move it around the outside casing of the lobes, and out the bottom of the supercharger through an outlet / discharge port. Like the twin screw supercharger, the roots is a "positive displacement" aka "fixed displacement" supercharger, meaning that it moves a fixed volume of air per rotation. Notwithstanding minor amounts of air-leak at low rpms, the roots supercharger cannot flow backwards like a centrifugal supercharger, and is thus nearly as efficient in its ability to pump air at low rpms as it is at high rpms. What this means is that roots superchargers are very capable of making large amounts of boost even when engine rpms are very low. This makes for great low-end and midrange power, and also makes them great for trucks and towing vehicles. The roots is also self lubricated, and is the simplest of the supercharger designs, meaning it is reasonably priced and very reliable. This is why roots superchargers have been the choice of GM, Ford, Mercedes, and Toyota for OE applications.

The only real disadvantage to the roots supercharger is that it creates a lot of heat. There are two reasons for this. First, the roots supercharger does not compress air - it only moves from the intake port to the discharge port (i.e. it is the only supercharger design with no internal compression ratio). All of the compression is done in the intake manifold. Laws of thermodynamics kick in in favor of supercharger designs with an internal compression ratio (centrifugal and twin screw) because they do less work on the incoming air charge. We will leave the mathematics of this phenomenon to a later (much more boring) discussion. Another reason roots superchargers create higher amounts of heat is because they tend to carry some of the compressed air in the intake back into the supercharger because it gets trapped by the rotating lobes that are exposed to the hotter air in the intake manifold.

The Whipple 1600AX

The other camp is the ones who want to run the Whipple. The whipple is a twin screw blower and would put out a lot better gains then the M90 would. The downfall is the price. You're looking at a good 1500 dollars for the 1.6L whipple plus the adapter plate for the intercooler and throttle body. The 1.6L puts out i believe a good 500 more cfm then the M62 does. Cobalt SS running 10 Psi from a whipple could expect 280-300 wheel horsepower without any other mods with good fuel.
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/images/productimages/compressors/1600ar_comp_lg.jpg

http://www.harrop.com.au/site_resources/599/616/image/lysholm_1600a.jpg
http://www.harrop.com.au/site_resources/605/616/image/lysholm_rotor_pairs.jpg

The Twin Screw Supercharger
The twin screw supercharger at first glance appears to look similar to a roots supercharger both inside and out. The two technologies are indeed similar, however there are significant differences. At the heart of the twin-screw supercharger are two rotors, or "screws" that rotate towards each other. The rotors mesh together and draw air from the back of the supercharger. The twisting rotors move the air to the front of the supercharger, while compressing the air before discharging through a port at or near the front of the supercharger.

Because the compression is done inside the supercharger, this design produces less heat than a roots supercharger - in fact, it is almost as thermally efficient as a centrifugal design. Like the roots design, the twin-screw is a fixed displacement supercharger (meaning that it pumps a fixed volume of air per revolution), and because the tolerances between the rotating screws are very tight, its ability to create boost at low rpms is unparalleled. These characteristics make it ideal for trucks and towing vehicles, where low to mid range power is primary in importance. Another important advantage of the twin screw compressor is its reliability. Unlike a roots supercharger, the rotors in a twin screw supercharger do not actually touch, so there are virtually no wearing parts. For this reason, twin screw compressors are commonly used to pressurize cabins in passenger aircraft. Like roots superchargers, twin screw superchargers are self lubricated and do not tap into the engine's oil supply.

One disadvantage of the twin screw design is that, because it has an internal compression ratio, the twin screw is compressing air even when it is not sending boost to the engine (i.e. under cruising or deceleration). An internal bypass valve releases the pressurized air, but because it takes work to pressurize the air in the first place, the twin screw supercharger draws more power from the engine than while not under boost. Like the roots, the throttle body must be placed before the compressor because it is a fixed displacement supercharger.

good stuff man, from what I understand though there may be an issue with hood clearance with the added height from an adapter plate. I personally want the twin screw.

good stuff man, from what I understand though there may be an issue with hood clearance with the added height from an adapter plate. I personally want the twin screw.

I agree with the twin screw

I don't really understand the reasoning behind a supercharger swap. The stock supercharger can perform quite well with only a few simple mods. If you really want to make the SS/SC a monster, I think twincharging is the answer, not a bigger supercharger.

I don't really understand the reasoning behind a supercharger swap. The stock supercharger can perform quite well with only a few simple mods. If you really want to make the SS/SC a monster, I think twincharging is the answer, not a bigger supercharger.

Twin charging isn't going to add turbo boost on top of blower boost. From what I understand about the twin systems is the blower is pushing untill about 3500-4500 rpms, then it's shut off and the turbo kicks in. I could be wrong but if I'm not then you're just getting the added advantage of having no turbo lag on the bottom end, and no parasitic loss from a blower on the top end.

I personally think it's a cool concept, but wouldnt want the pain in the ass of a turbo in my car. I'd much rather go to the wipple charger. Who cares if it's a parasite...it's a friggin monster, it'll give you back more than enough to make up for the drag.

Im in love with whipple!

Im in love with whipple!

Whoa there dude...get a room or something. You can stay away from the forums with your Whipple love ;)

Whoa there dude...get a room or something. You can stay away from the forums with your Whipple love ;)
:lol: :lol:

good stuff man, from what I understand though there may be an issue with hood clearance with the added height from an adapter plate. I personally want the twin screw.


I'd cut a hole in the hood for a twin screw.

If you were to do a blower swap for example, wouldn't you need like a piggyback system or something? So basically isn't better off to wait till somebody makes a blower swap kit? I mean don't get me wrong i don't want to wait either but if i was going to do a blower swap i would want to get full potential of my investment.

oh yeah i forgot to ask..... for the m90 blower swap what do you guys mean when you say it needs an adapter plate for the intercooler? is there an intercooler under the blower or something?

???? ha why yes the cobalt ss /sc has an aftercooler (intercooler) already. Do not get us started on this again...

This is certainly an interesting thread. I had been away from the boards for awhile, and hadn't seen many threads on supercharger swaps. It makes me ponder whether I should wait for Stage II, or go with a swap. Then again, I keep my warranty with Stage II.

I don't really understand the reasoning behind a supercharger swap. The stock supercharger can perform quite well with only a few simple mods. If you really want to make the SS/SC a monster, I think twincharging is the answer, not a bigger supercharger.


Twincharging is the biggest waste of money in the world. Considering the S3 eco kit only puts out 263 horsepower. It's been shown the M62 is maxed from the factory and cannot provide the needed CFM to make big power.

Let's also not forget that you're going to need a new clutch to handle all the power a blower swap will provide.

42lbers and an S-AFC2 should provide all the fuel a TS can throw at the 2L.

So basically there wouldn't be any ECU problems other than compensating for increased airflow from swapping to an m90? (I'd love to do a twin-screw)...because if it's a direct swap besides fabbing adapter plates, I have a few friends w/ s281's that are selling their m90's and might be so brave as to try the swap.

It's been shown the M62 is maxed from the factory and cannot provide the needed CFM to make big power.

How do you figure? It won't take much to get to 300hp with the M62. If you want 350 hp or more than that, then why did you buy a Cobalt in the first place?

E-mail from Bob Stiegmeier (read bottom to top):

16,000
----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxxxxxxxx
To: 'Bob Stiegemeier'
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:23 AM
Subject: RE: Hey Dyno Bob


Thanks for the info Bob. Also, do you know what (in your professional opinion) would be the maximum RPM limit for the m62?




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Stiegemeier [mailto:DynoBob@stiegemeier.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:22 AM
To: xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Hey Dyno Bob



We have ported those before with success we are actually going to be having one come here to the shop do before and after dynos and we will be able to give you alot more info. We have gotten good responses from the ones already ported

thanks and check back with us in a few weeks and we will have some data for you.

Stieg

----- Original Message -----

From: xxxxxxxxxxxx

To: dynobob@stiegemeier.com

Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 5:29 PM

Subject: Hey Dyno Bob



Hello Bob,



I own a 05 Cobalt SS that comes stock equipped w/ an Eaton M62 roots supercharger. I wanted to get your opinion about porting the small blower, and if it would be worth the investment as far as gains go. This is my first 4cylinder car, and I am pretty much clueless about how they respond to blower porting vs. say an 03-04 Cobra or Lightning.



Thanks,

xxxxxxxxxx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It would appear, according to Steigimeier that the blower can handle more than the advertised 14,000ish limit...although 16,000 is right up the ladder.

I believe that Bob is talking about a Red Line's blower being ported if I remember correctly.

How do you figure? It won't take much to get to 300hp with the M62.
yes it will, thats why no one has done it yet. There is no way bolt ons will get the car to 300hp without some more help.

So basically there wouldn't be any ECU problems other than compensating for increased airflow from swapping to an m90? (I'd love to do a twin-screw)...because if it's a direct swap besides fabbing adapter plates, I have a few friends w/ s281's that are selling their m90's and might be so brave as to try the swap.
bigger injectors and an AFC of some sorts would be in order. Other than that the car shouldn't even tell a difference.

I'd cut a hole in the hood for a twin screw.
I was wondering if cutting some of the hood bracing from that location would be enough room. I know I wouldn't have a problem with doing it.

How do you figure? It won't take much to get to 300hp with the M62. If you want 350 hp or more than that, then why did you buy a Cobalt in the first place?

you don't understand the concept behind forced induction. Twincharging is crap, espcially when the turbo is at the end of the exhause. And the M62 isn't going to get over 260 without other major intake and exhaust work. And by the time you reach that point, you've spent enough to fund a supercharger swap.

I was wondering if cutting some of the hood bracing from that location would be enough room. I know I wouldn't have a problem with doing it.

You guys, if you have a Cobalt SS SC go outside and place an egg on top of your supercharger and shut the hood - no cutting is necessary.

yes it will, thats why no one has done it yet. There is no way bolt ons will get the car to 300hp without some more help.


Come on man... The SS/SC is already putting out about 230hp at the crank. These simple mods should get you damn near 300hp, and more torque than those of us without a LSD can handle, for just a just a bit over a grand:


GM stage 1 kit (injectors, ECU reflash)

2.8" pulley

CAI

Less restrictive exhaust

stic5, I know you would like to be hopeful of hitting 300HP, but I think you need to reevaluate your estimates and educate yourself in forced induction.

And since does crank HP matter on a car with a manaul transmissions? Never? Plus the numbers we're talking about here are whp - that's what's important.

Also, you don't know how much GM is going to charge for Stage 1 yet.

stic5, I know you would like to be hopeful of hitting 300HP, but I think you need to reevaluate your estimates and educate yourself in forced induction.
And since does crank HP matter on a car with a manaul transmissions? Never? Plus the numbers we're talking about here are whp - that's what's important.


Whoa there sparky. I'm not trying to start some kind of flame match here. I'm actually quite educated and know a lot about mechanical topics, including forced induction. I stand by my estimate of close to 300hp with those mods. It would have to give you 285hp at the very least. And since when does crank hp not matter? That is what cars are rated with you know. At any rate, this is all just my opinion, and if yours is different that's fine. I don't claim to be a prophet. We'll see what happens when the GM stage 1 kit comes out and someone tries that setup. Personally I don't have a need for 300hp; I would be more than happy with 260 or so. And yes, that's crank hp :D

I agree that the M62 is pretty well maxed out. Think about the size of the pulleys you guys are having to run to get 15psi of boost. You guys jump from 3.4" pulleys to 2.85" as one of the first mods. I bet the M62 snout won't even take a pulley much smaller than that. And it wouldn't matter, because its beeing spun so fast that the air in there is to hot to be beneficial.

Didn't someone do the math as to how small of a pulley you could run before hitting the 14,000 rpm max on the M62?

Plus guys, don't forget that PSI is not what you want here, you want CFM. You want to move the most air possible, not just make boost. A larger blower will move more CFM at a lower boost, both are good things.

I'll be pretty shocked if anyone gets to 300 whp without swapping blowers or adding nitrous.

And don't just sit around and wait for someone else to come up with a blower swap kit. Because it may never happen without someone stepping out there and making it happen. I personally wish I had a M62 or M90 to start creating a CAD model of what an adapter plate should be. There could be alot of money in that (and I really want to put a blower on my car). So step out and get this thing rolling, buy a used blower casing for next to nothing, take it to a machine shop and see what they say. Or find a college student (like me) with CAD skills and pay them to create the files needed.

Spinning the blower past 12K on the Eaton is just a waste of time. 12K is pretty much the limit if you want to make horsepower. Now i'm not saying that spinning it past that won't show gains but it will make more heat then it will horsepower.

Does anyone know what the difference is between the 1600AX and the 1600AR by Whipple? Is it just the mounting or is there a difference in the supercharger. Link for reference. http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1162

Does anyone know what the difference is between the 1600AX and the 1600AR by Whipple? Is it just the mounting or is there a difference in the supercharger. Link for reference. http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1162


Looks to be just the way it mounts.

BTW - If anyone was wondering. The 1600ax is a 97cid blower. 7 more cid then the M90.

Looks to be just the way it mounts.

Agreed. Definitly looks like a different mount.

utoh, the SCs youve listed on your first post are the wrong SCs. GPs have the gen III and V SC. They never got the Gen IV. Also, the Cobalt has the Gen V m62, not the Gen IV. It is a completly different SC outlet than what you have posted. Also, im willing to bet it has a different bolt pattern also.

So changing to a Whipple..... would u need to change naything internally?

If you're going 300hp or over you are probably going to want forged pistons. I'd say you may get upto around 280hp with the stock compressor which I would consider the climax before you have to swap pistons, swap compressors and fabricate the adapter plates (which is more of a science than lining up bolt holes) get an a/f controller.....and the list goes on.

utoh, the SCs youve listed on your first post are the wrong SCs. GPs have the gen III and V SC. They never got the Gen IV. Also, the Cobalt has the Gen V m62, not the Gen IV. It is a completly different SC outlet than what you have posted. Also, im willing to bet it has a different bolt pattern also.


Since when are we talking about grand prix's? I posted a picture of the M62. Plain and simple.

What are the options as to say a centrifugal type blower over a twin screw?
I beleive a SC swap is in need if you are shooting for 300WHP.

I myself are contemplating removing the SC and going to a single turbo down the road.
Depends on how well the cobalts will respond to power over the next few years as mods begin to come out. I hope the aftermarket world for this car explodes.

We will never know the problems associated with thins kind of stuff, or how well it all works untill someone actually does it.

What are the options as to say a centrifugal type blower over a twin screw?
I beleive a SC swap is in need if you are shooting for 300WHP.

I myself are contemplating removing the SC and going to a single turbo down the road.
Depends on how well the cobalts will respond to power over the next few years as mods begin to come out. I hope the aftermarket world for this car explodes.

We will never know the problems associated with thins kind of stuff, or how well it all works untill someone actually does it.


Why would you want something like an ATI or Vortech blower? 4Cyl's need low end torque and a centrifugal doesn't provide that. I imagine a novi2000 kit would be fun but the mounting would be a pain in the ass.

Since when are we talking about grand prix's? I posted a picture of the M62. Plain and simple.

since those are the most readily available m90s on the market and the cobalt has the Gen V m62 not the gen IV :rolleyes:

Why would you want something like an ATI or Vortech blower? 4Cyl's need low end torque and a centrifugal doesn't provide that. I imagine a novi2000 kit would be fun but the mounting would be a pain in the ass.


a novi 2000 will be way overkill on a cobalt. MAYBE a novi 1000, but thats it.

I agree that the M62 is pretty well maxed out. Think about the size of the pulleys you guys are having to run to get 15psi of boost. You guys jump from 3.4" pulleys to 2.85" as one of the first mods. I bet the M62 snout won't even take a pulley much smaller than that. And it wouldn't matter, because its beeing spun so fast that the air in there is to hot to be beneficial.

Didn't someone do the math as to how small of a pulley you could run before hitting the 14,000 rpm max on the M62?

Plus guys, don't forget that PSI is not what you want here, you want CFM. You want to move the most air possible, not just make boost. A larger blower will move more CFM at a lower boost, both are good things.

I'll be pretty shocked if anyone gets to 300 whp without swapping blowers or adding nitrous.

And don't just sit around and wait for someone else to come up with a blower swap kit. Because it may never happen without someone stepping out there and making it happen. I personally wish I had a M62 or M90 to start creating a CAD model of what an adapter plate should be. There could be alot of money in that (and I really want to put a blower on my car). So step out and get this thing rolling, buy a used blower casing for next to nothing, take it to a machine shop and see what they say. Or find a college student (like me) with CAD skills and pay them to create the files needed.




What version of CAD do you have, I've been trying to get a new copy. I'm certified but not liscensed....Got any connections to getting the program,kinda hard out here where I am(and I don't want to pay the 5K from AutoDesk unless I have to for the full version). Thanks.

the m90 is what ive been looking at so far, but the other thing ive been looking at is makeing sure the pully on the snout lines up with the other drive pullies...im waiting to get one first so i can take some measurements and get it over to a shop to see what can be done...im waiting on my local yard to get a gran with one first

the m90 is what ive been looking at so far, but the other thing ive been looking at is makeing sure the pully on the snout lines up with the other drive pullies...im waiting to get one first so i can take some measurements and get it over to a shop to see what can be done...im waiting on my local yard to get a gran with one first


You can buy different size snouts so the pulley's will match up.

You can buy different size snouts so the pulley's will match up.


haha, yea i know...

when i said "so can see what can be done..." i meant the plates...

being clear>me

Twin charging isn't going to add turbo boost on top of blower boost. From what I understand about the twin systems is the blower is pushing untill about 3500-4500 rpms, then it's shut off and the turbo kicks in. I could be wrong but if I'm not then you're just getting the added advantage of having no turbo lag on the bottom end, and no parasitic loss from a blower on the top end.

I personally think it's a cool concept, but wouldnt want the pain in the ass of a turbo in my car. I'd much rather go to the wipple charger. Who cares if it's a parasite...it's a friggin monster, it'll give you back more than enough to make up for the drag.

the beauty behind a twincharging system is that it is inheriently more efficent. at higher rpms, as the turbo begins to overtake the supercharger in intake air flow, the load on the supercharger simply goes away. when the pressure difference before and after the supercharger is minimal the power it takes to drive the supercharger drops off. there is not any shutting off or clutching of the supercharger required. its all inherient in the system. that being said there is alot more that can go wrong and simplicity is best. twin screw all the way.

Why would you want something like an ATI or Vortech blower? 4Cyl's need low end torque and a centrifugal doesn't provide that.
tell that to the rsx guys! :lol:

it depends on what your after, some people are willing to trade a few lbs/ft at 3000 rpm to make a few more lb/ft at higher rpm with the corresponding higher hp. some people are dyno queens and some people actually want their cars to perform. not that 300 hp is gonna be slow no matter how you get it...

the beauty behind a twincharging system is that it is inheriently more efficent.

The THEORY of twincharging is efficent, but in actual reality - it blows. Especailly when the intake pipe is directly over the exhaust manifold. :wtf: Plus for the money, you could do a twin screw and still have enough change to fund a trip to Mars.

tell that to the rsx guys! :lol:

it depends on what your after, some people are willing to trade a few lbs/ft at 3000 rpm to make a few more lb/ft at higher rpm with the corresponding higher hp. some people are dyno queens and some people actually want their cars to perform. not that 300 hp is gonna be slow no matter how you get it...


:lol:

Dyno queen's crack me up. They only want the highest hp numbers so they can brag to there friends. Pathetic

:lol:

Dyno queen's crack me up. They only want the highest hp numbers so they can brag to there friends. Pathetic
Yeah the majority of Supra guys crack me up too :lol: :-D

Yeah the majority of Supra guys crack me up too :lol: :-D


I see they banned you for the 3rd time over at the ************* site :lol:

Yeah, they dont like me over there lol. I dont care, its better over here anyways. The smart people to dumb people ratio here is alot less favorable to assclownery like over on .com ;) :lol:

Yeah the majority of Supra guys crack me up too :lol: :-D
They look down on us because we only have 12.5-17psi - where as a real car (in their mind) has somewhere between 60-100psi. :lol:

Only real car I know of that has an engine that can support anything near even 50 psi let alone 60-100 is a diesel, and thats not even a car its a truck. Silly Poopra guys :lol:

"Wanna Race From A Roll" That one line defines Supras

Not to start a war but the supra motor is capable of 48 psi, give or take, and turns out ridiculous numbers. I don't really understand the point but just figured i'd put that out there.

Message from Whipple

I'm sorry, but we do not offer a direct replacement for the Eaton compressor. I do not know of anyone who has done this conversion.
Thank you for your interest,
Shonda
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick A Lombard
To: tech@whipplesuperchargers.com
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:25 AM
Subject: Conversion to Whipple Supercharger


Hello,

My name is Patrick A Lombard and I currently own a 2005 Cobalt SS supercharged. This 2.0L LSJ engine comes with an Eaton M62 roots blower. I am questioning how much more horsepower I can push through the blower before heat becomes an even bigger issue. My question for you is if you have any knowledge of anyone converting an M62 or M90 blower setup to a Whipple twin screw. I am trying to find out what issues will have to be addressed. This includes things such as if I would be able to use my existing air bypass valve, etc. I know that an adapter plate for the intercooler/manifold would have to be designed and I also know an adapter plate for the throttle body would be necessary. I was hoping you may have any additional information for me. Thank you for your time.

Well poop. This makes me really want to start a custom conversion :)

Message from Whipple

I'm sorry, but we do not offer a direct replacement for the Eaton compressor. I do not know of anyone who has done this conversion.
Thank you for your interest,
Shonda
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick A Lombard
To: tech@whipplesuperchargers.com
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:25 AM
Subject: Conversion to Whipple Supercharger


Hello,

My name is Patrick A Lombard and I currently own a 2005 Cobalt SS supercharged. This 2.0L LSJ engine comes with an Eaton M62 roots blower. I am questioning how much more horsepower I can push through the blower before heat becomes an even bigger issue. My question for you is if you have any knowledge of anyone converting an M62 or M90 blower setup to a Whipple twin screw. I am trying to find out what issues will have to be addressed. This includes things such as if I would be able to use my existing air bypass valve, etc. I know that an adapter plate for the intercooler/manifold would have to be designed and I also know an adapter plate for the throttle body would be necessary. I was hoping you may have any additional information for me. Thank you for your time.

Well poop. This makes me really want to start a custom conversion :)

Nice try Pat but whipple has told a lot of people they have too much on there plate and will not be offering a direct replacement. Someone's going to have to go old school and fab it up themselves.

enough emails to whipple and they decide it's worth their time to do a swap.

enough emails to whipple and they decide it's worth their time to do a swap.
Its gonna take a little bit more than just emails from kids saying they want it. Its going to take atleast a grand upfront by 10+ people before a prototype is even made. They have no reason to listen to a couple of 19 yr old saying "Yo I want one of your twin screw superchargers cause I hear theyre dope and can make my car faster and sound real cool" without those 19 yr olds showing them some serious cash downpayments ;) Whipple has been around long enough, its not like they NEED the little bit of business the Cobalt community might provide.

Yeah, I never figured they would offer a direct replacement kit. Like everyone has said they have enough other things on their plate. But I definitely think the custom fabrication would be worth a shot. I was just hoping they may have heard of someone else making a custom twinscrew setup from a roots blower.

all i have to say is i want one when i get my ss!!

if anyone decides to do this post some pics and some numbers asap!!!!!!!

So you why exactly are you posting on my forum? It doesn't seem that you think much of the cobalt or the owners, by reading the post above?

I have to give it to him, that is the way that business works. I have seen a lot of brilliant ideas, but they never leave the ground because nobody is willing to fork out the cash.

And I don't think he meant to belittle or community, just the fact that many of us may not want or be able to drop that kind of money on our cars. Maybe in a few years if the the sales keep up and there is more of a market to reach out to.

Well boys it seems i have some good news for this thread. I am 99.9% sure i'm going to be ordering a Cobalt SS tomorrow so i shall be the first to adapt the whipple and S-AFC2.

I have to give it to him, that is the way that business works. I have seen a lot of brilliant ideas, but they never leave the ground because nobody is willing to fork out the cash.

And I don't think he meant to belittle or community, just the fact that many of us may not want or be able to drop that kind of money on our cars. Maybe in a few years if the the sales keep up and there is more of a market to reach out to.

I don't see how you can use that choice of words that he did and not mean to belittle the owners or the community.

I don't want to argue about how companies decided to develop product cause I am not qualified to do that. If others care to speculate that can do so, but they don't have to do so in a negative manor.

May someone plase email me at DASBLANDON12@aol.com about upgrading my supercharger. My goal is 400 hp.I do plan on getting nitrous. for my car also.Thanks and please email me.

well in about a week or two i will have a M-90 installed on the car. We have the adapter plate just about built just need a few welds done, and then i have an intese kit also coming as well. i can not wait till all of this is done. i will keep you updated and will post pics when all is done. oh yea the M-90 will be pushing approx 13 psi too, man i thought i had traction problems before and there will be dyno sheets to along with video for the non believers. lol

well in about a week or two i will have a M-90 installed on the car. We have the adapter plate just about built just need a few welds done, and then i have an intese kit also coming as well. i can not wait till all of this is done. i will keep you updated and will post pics when all is done. oh yea the M-90 will be pushing approx 13 psi too, man i thought i had traction problems before and there will be dyno sheets to along with video for the non believers. lol

So did you complete the swap yet?

So did you complete the swap yet?
its been one hour your moron.....

its been one hour your moron.....

heheheheheehehehe that is damn funny. i should have it done in a week or two.

first that whipple S/C you have listed above...is it prettymuch direct bolt on also, are there any other upgradeable supercharges for better power besides whipple???IM a big turbo guy so this is new....i want 300+hp like you said lol so im gettin that whipple....need help..

You guys are missing one important part! The M62 is designed to pull less HP per rpm turned than the M90. You bolt an M90 on and spin at the RPM the 2.0 needs to be spun to and you have HP robbing monster strapped on to the intake! Look at the charts! No look at what HP the M90 is using at 7000 engine rpm vs the M62. The light should turn on!;)

you get the swap done yet?

Maybe he read what Fast06SS said about the power robbing beast he decided to add to his car. That's the same reason I decided against the Blower swap.

I have i 2006 Chevy Cobalt SS Supercharged 2SS and i want to hook it up for the track? i am having problems at finding parts and a shop in orlando to do what i want to it? can anyone help me?:cussing:

Maybe he read what Fast06SS said about the power robbing beast he decided to add to his car. That's the same reason I decided against the Blower swap.
it is still process we ran into a slight problem so we had to redo the adapter plate.
i have ever intension of doing this swap. just becuase. we will see if there is any gains or if it will cost me power like Fast06ss says. it is all good though i will let you know when it gets done. sorry guys i wished it was done.

Updates ?

Fuck those blowers. Put a 2.4L Kenne Bell in the SS

Fuck those blowers. Put a 2.4L Kenne Bell in the SS
The factory blower is 1.0L so a 2.4L that puts out a cooler charge air is a very serious upgrade. Probably not worthy of street use. I would say a 1.6L would be about as big as you would want without having to do any serious block and internal work.

im anxious for a blower upgrade!! my buddy just got done with his KB 2.4 swap and the damn thing sounds like a jet!!

has anybody looked into twin charging with a paxton novi? this might be a viable solution considering they have reverse directional units. the only problem i've seen yet is my torque damper being in the way(sorry ahead of time if someone has allready posted a thread about this idea)

has anybody looked into twin charging with a paxton novi? this might be a viable solution considering they have reverse directional units. the only problem i've seen yet is my torque damper being in the way(sorry ahead of time if someone has allready posted a thread about this idea)


and then you'd have TWO superchargers stealing power from your engine in order to make power. Wouldn't make much sense. Although I could see swapping to a larger Novi unit and then exchanging the M62 for a custom upper plenum to bolt on in its place, leaving the aftercooler and probably making some more room for the Novi as well. With enough engineering to it, the plenum itself could be a power upgrade as well. Twincharging is a waste really... the only situation I see it making any sense is on something with awd wearing slicks because that seems to be the only way you'd be able to use all the low end it would give you. For the average street car/track racer, you never need full power below 4000-ish rpms anyway, so why go through all that effort to make power down there?

Bang for your buck, I think a whipple/lysholm would be the best idea for a blower swap. M90, well I think it would take a Gen 5 to be worth it and those are almost the cost of a whipple the last time i checked anyway.

nice write up

the twin screw whipple seems like the way to go.

The twin screw will make more power, esp. in the upper rpm's than the roots blower's in addition to keeping iat2 temps and heat soak down

Did this idea go anywhere or just die off?

I'd cut a hole in the hood for a twin screw.

+1 Id cut a hole in the finder if i had to

The twin screw will make more power, esp. in the upper rpm's than the roots blower's in addition to keeping iat2 temps and heat soak down
Actually a twin screw would heatsoak worse since it always compresses the air while a roots only compresses the air when the BPV is closed ie. while accelerating. It can be compensated by increasing the HE surface area by approx. 30% from what I have researched.

good stuff man, from what I understand though there may be an issue with hood clearance with the added height from an adapter plate. I personally want the twin screw.
Hood needs to change
Throttle plate and adapter plate
Engine rebuild for power
New fuel system, recommend 70# injectors
New tune (very custom)
New - Tires/Brakes/Axles/Engine mounts/Tranny mounts/wheels
More parasitic loss
Less RPM on the pulley
A bunch of other stuff I am too tired/lazy to go look up from my book right now.

But it is worth it.

- SK

Hood needs to change
Throttle plate and adapter plate
Engine rebuild for power
New fuel system, recommend 70# injectors
New tune (very custom)
New - Tires/Brakes/Axles/Engine mounts/Tranny mounts/wheels
More parasitic loss
Less RPM on the pulley
A bunch of other stuff I am too tired/lazy to go look up from my book right now.

But it is worth it.

- SK
Not entirely true.
-There is clearance if you use the proper size twin screw. They are actually not as tall as the M62 with the adaptor plate it as about the same height. That also depends on how you place the s/c in the engine bay. Although you would bennefit greatly from a properly desinged heat extraction hood.

-yes you will need something to adapt the TB and the manifold to the new blower as you would with any other blower/turbo swap.

-You wouldn't have to rebuild the engine unless you intend to shove a lot more air in the engine. Then I would recommend a stronger head gasket, head studs, and forged pistons.

-The fuel system, like the engine, depends on how far you want to push it. A 2.6" pulley only pushes the 60#s to ~75% Duty Cycle w/ 101 octane on Blow 4-banger's car leaving a little room for improvement.

-Yes a re-tune but that is a given whether you merely add a CAI or change blowers and injectors.

-Tires/wheels/brakes/enginemounts/transmounts/axles are kinda optional although it is highly recomended that the axles and mounts be changed. Most people that would look to this extreme of a mod to make power would have performed most of these already I would hope. If not they will have to soon enough.

-More parasitic loss during off boost compared to a roots, but while under load a proper sized twin screw can produce 22psi while only consuming 40hp which is about as much, if not less than, the amount consumed by the M62 w/ stock pulley does under boost.

-yes less rpm because of its significantly higher volumetric efficiency. Even at 30psi it has a higher VE than an M62 at 10psi

-About the only thing you are missing is the facts that it makes constant heat because it is always compressing air, but because it has internal compression it makes half the heat a roots style blower does to create the same boost level. The constant heat can be compensated by increasing the surface area of your Heat Exchanger or adding additional Heat Exchangers to increase the surface area by ~30%. Using HP Tuners to make the fan constantly at 30% and the IC pump constantly run full-speed would probably work aswell. (Blown 4-banger's car already bennefits greatly from both the additional HE and the Fan/IC pump mod)

I have been talking to a company here in california about a whipple supercharger swap.

How many people would be willing to pay $3500 for a whipple kit?

That means tuning and all the parts.

I have been talking to a company here in california about a whipple supercharger swap.

How many people would be willing to pay $3500 for a whipple kit?

That means tuning and all the parts.
Whipple doesn't make the proper size supercharger any more. They stopped last year.

LMAO! The m90 wont work man, youll end up losing hp because of its gearing. itll take more HP to spin it! The only real swaps that can be done is using the kenne bell 1.33 or just wait for the TVS units to come out next year.

If people thought outside the box sometimes many questions can be answered through research. I found the following answers to many of the questions for this swap. Follow my thought process here.

Q: Who made the blower designs for Whipple?
A: Lysholm

Q: Do they still make them?
A: Why certainly they do. (Google is your friend)

Q: What size Lysholm blower would be good for our application?
A: Why the Lysholm 1200AX would be perfect. (E-mail Lysholm direct, received reply)

Q: Who made the design for the KB blowers?
A: Autorotor (Google is your friend)

Q: Do they still make them?
A: Yes, they do. (Google is your friend)

Q: What size blower would be great for our application?
A: The Autorotor QA3133. (Knowing and PMing people on these forums is key to intel sometimes)

Info: The swap has already been done with the KB 1.33L

Q: Has anyone seen it personnally?
A: Why yes if you dig into it and check with the locals near the car that has been swapped, whom also post on these forums.

Thought: It must be hard to mount that blower on the manifold while still being able to hook up a bypass valve to function properly and not cut into the hood.

Q: How was this swap done?
A: Think outside the box when it comes to mounting the blower/making adapter pieces. Twinscrews can be mounted on top (chevys), upside down (older mustangs), sideways (PT crusier) .... (Google Images is your friend now)

Q: What would be the easiest for the space i have to mount my setup?
A: I figured it out and have rough diagrams made already, can you? ;)

Facts: I'll hook you guys up with some answers that are hard to find that you cannot get through normal channels. The stock fuel system supports the 1.33L KB blower with the addition of 60LB injectors. HPTuners will allow you tune the car properly for the setup. The pulley size is roughly 3.25" - 3.35" in diameter. The car put down 350ish whp and 360ish wtrq on a completely stock engine and exhaust. Remember these are proven facts, not fiction. :twothumbs

I know this was long, but maybe it'll help some of you guys out that are still lost on the whole swap ordeal. I have many hours of research into this, and the only thing preventing it from happening for my own reality, is money and being deployed currently. :cssNET:

Any pics or updates for that swap ?

No. He made a deposite for the Tag Racecraft LYS1200AX swap that has been unspoken of for sometime now. I started working on a conversion, but stopped last December when Tag announced their conversion. I think I may need to try start that up again.

sticky please

If you were to do a blower swap for example, wouldn't you need like a piggyback system or something? So basically isn't better off to wait till somebody makes a blower swap kit? I mean don't get me wrong i don't want to wait either but if i was going to do a blower swap i would want to get full potential of my investment.

In all honesty...No.

The purpose of a Piggyback or a Standalone system is only to tell the computer that "Hey...You cant be tuned...so im going to trick you"..

In short, for vehicles where they do a engine swap which is in no way compatible to the original car/computer that its going into...few piggybacks will handle it..but a Standalone would cover it.


The 2.0L SS/SC Cobalts/ION Redlines computers are designed to see boost. The only problem I can really forsee is that maybe the stock computer will say "Wait a second...your pushing a shit load of air in for this RPM"...and might throw a code.

but with the advent of HPTuners, you can easily modify the stock computer to change its A/F ratios, as well as if needed your injector settings.

holyyyyyy ancient thread.

but still valid information.
and sadly. 2 years later. were still stuck with the flamethrower, and no valid blower swap kits.

holyyyyyy ancient thread.

but still valid information.
and sadly. 2 years later. were still stuck with the flamethrower, and no valid blower swap kits.

The eaton isn't a flamethrower. An eaton spinning at 16,000 rpm making 19-20 lbs of boost IS a flamethrower. The eaton is a very efficient setup (in terms of a roots style), how its only efficient up like 12-14 lbs of boost. Then it makes more heat than anything else. Lower the boost to 12-14 lbs and you should be in good shape.

yeah. and barely above stock hp :P

its a flamethrower if you go much past stage 2. lets put it that way.

i was always under the impression that the tvs can just fit right in.....

yeah. and barely above stock hp :P

its a flamethrower if you go much past stage 2. lets put it that way.

I was thinkin more like increase ENGINE flow, so I doesn't give the blower a chance to build 20 pound of boost worth of air in the manifold.

I wonder if this one would work? It looks more like a computer than a supercharger lol
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/media/php/catalog.php?pid=1190

I wonder if this one would work? It looks more like a computer than a supercharger lol
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/media/php/catalog.php?pid=1190

That is an AutoRotor twin screw which is what a Kenne Bell starts it's life as. Also the sister company of Lysholm that used to be the supplier for Whipple until a couple years ago. Both owned by Opcon who happens to also own Laminova that makes our intercooler cores.

damn thats some messed up shit.. lol would it work?

damn thats some messed up shit.. lol would it work?

If you had the adapters, drive snout, pulley, and tuning.

uh oh :guns:

I'd like to see replacement rotors for the m62 that are designed like the TVS rotors. 4 lobes > 3.

Anyone used the whipple successfully? if so what kind of dyno gains?

There is supposedly a guy in Florida putting down 350 to the wheels with a Kenne Bell 1.33L compressor. That is the only one I know of.

That is an AutoRotor twin screw which is what a Kenne Bell starts it's life as. Also the sister company of Lysholm that used to be the supplier for Whipple until a couple years ago. Both owned by Opcon who happens to also own Laminova that makes our intercooler cores.

Dayum! This is some Jerry Springer shit!!! :eek: :lol:

Where can i buy an eaton supercharger. I want to put it on my LT. Anyway, I checked the website and googled it but found no way to get one. Also any comments about putting one on a 2.2 L 09 would be appreciated.

Thanks