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Ultimate Cobalt SS Supercharger Swap Guide

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Old Nov 4, 2005 | 09:11 PM
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Ultimate Cobalt SS Supercharger Swap Guide

Mods.. Can we make this a sticky because there are atleast 1 new supercharger swap topic a day.

Let's start off with your stock Eaton M62.
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Eaton 4th Gen M90

The ones who want to go with an eaton M90. Going to the M90 gives you additional cfm over the M62. They can also be had for around 600 dollars. All you would need would be an adapter plate for the Intercooler and for the Throttle body. Any good shop can fab you up these item's for a few hundred dollars. If i had to guess on power gains. 10 Psi with a M90 should get you 250-260 wheel horsepower.






The Roots Supercharger (aka "blower")
The roots supercharger was originally designed as an air moving device for industrial buildings. The roots supercharger features two counter-rotating lobes that trap air from the intake side of the supercharger (normally at the back of the supercharger), move it around the outside casing of the lobes, and out the bottom of the supercharger through an outlet / discharge port. Like the twin screw supercharger, the roots is a "positive displacement" aka "fixed displacement" supercharger, meaning that it moves a fixed volume of air per rotation. Notwithstanding minor amounts of air-leak at low rpms, the roots supercharger cannot flow backwards like a centrifugal supercharger, and is thus nearly as efficient in its ability to pump air at low rpms as it is at high rpms. What this means is that roots superchargers are very capable of making large amounts of boost even when engine rpms are very low. This makes for great low-end and midrange power, and also makes them great for trucks and towing vehicles. The roots is also self lubricated, and is the simplest of the supercharger designs, meaning it is reasonably priced and very reliable. This is why roots superchargers have been the choice of GM, Ford, Mercedes, and Toyota for OE applications.

The only real disadvantage to the roots supercharger is that it creates a lot of heat. There are two reasons for this. First, the roots supercharger does not compress air - it only moves from the intake port to the discharge port (i.e. it is the only supercharger design with no internal compression ratio). All of the compression is done in the intake manifold. Laws of thermodynamics kick in in favor of supercharger designs with an internal compression ratio (centrifugal and twin screw) because they do less work on the incoming air charge. We will leave the mathematics of this phenomenon to a later (much more boring) discussion. Another reason roots superchargers create higher amounts of heat is because they tend to carry some of the compressed air in the intake back into the supercharger because it gets trapped by the rotating lobes that are exposed to the hotter air in the intake manifold.
The Whipple 1600AX

The other camp is the ones who want to run the Whipple. The whipple is a twin screw blower and would put out a lot better gains then the M90 would. The downfall is the price. You're looking at a good 1500 dollars for the 1.6L whipple plus the adapter plate for the intercooler and throttle body. The 1.6L puts out i believe a good 500 more cfm then the M62 does. Cobalt SS running 10 Psi from a whipple could expect 280-300 wheel horsepower without any other mods with good fuel.





The Twin Screw Supercharger
The twin screw supercharger at first glance appears to look similar to a roots supercharger both inside and out. The two technologies are indeed similar, however there are significant differences. At the heart of the twin-screw supercharger are two rotors, or "screws" that rotate towards each other. The rotors mesh together and draw air from the back of the supercharger. The twisting rotors move the air to the front of the supercharger, while compressing the air before discharging through a port at or near the front of the supercharger.

Because the compression is done inside the supercharger, this design produces less heat than a roots supercharger - in fact, it is almost as thermally efficient as a centrifugal design. Like the roots design, the twin-screw is a fixed displacement supercharger (meaning that it pumps a fixed volume of air per revolution), and because the tolerances between the rotating screws are very tight, its ability to create boost at low rpms is unparalleled. These characteristics make it ideal for trucks and towing vehicles, where low to mid range power is primary in importance. Another important advantage of the twin screw compressor is its reliability. Unlike a roots supercharger, the rotors in a twin screw supercharger do not actually touch, so there are virtually no wearing parts. For this reason, twin screw compressors are commonly used to pressurize cabins in passenger aircraft. Like roots superchargers, twin screw superchargers are self lubricated and do not tap into the engine's oil supply.

One disadvantage of the twin screw design is that, because it has an internal compression ratio, the twin screw is compressing air even when it is not sending boost to the engine (i.e. under cruising or deceleration). An internal bypass valve releases the pressurized air, but because it takes work to pressurize the air in the first place, the twin screw supercharger draws more power from the engine than while not under boost. Like the roots, the throttle body must be placed before the compressor because it is a fixed displacement supercharger.
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Old Nov 4, 2005 | 10:30 PM
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good stuff man, from what I understand though there may be an issue with hood clearance with the added height from an adapter plate. I personally want the twin screw.
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Old Nov 4, 2005 | 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by clownhair
good stuff man, from what I understand though there may be an issue with hood clearance with the added height from an adapter plate. I personally want the twin screw.
I agree with the twin screw
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Old Nov 4, 2005 | 11:25 PM
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I don't really understand the reasoning behind a supercharger swap. The stock supercharger can perform quite well with only a few simple mods. If you really want to make the SS/SC a monster, I think twincharging is the answer, not a bigger supercharger.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by stic5
I don't really understand the reasoning behind a supercharger swap. The stock supercharger can perform quite well with only a few simple mods. If you really want to make the SS/SC a monster, I think twincharging is the answer, not a bigger supercharger.
Twin charging isn't going to add turbo boost on top of blower boost. From what I understand about the twin systems is the blower is pushing untill about 3500-4500 rpms, then it's shut off and the turbo kicks in. I could be wrong but if I'm not then you're just getting the added advantage of having no turbo lag on the bottom end, and no parasitic loss from a blower on the top end.

I personally think it's a cool concept, but wouldnt want the pain in the ass of a turbo in my car. I'd much rather go to the wipple charger. Who cares if it's a parasite...it's a friggin monster, it'll give you back more than enough to make up for the drag.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 12:15 AM
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Im in love with whipple!
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Ljavy17
Im in love with whipple!
Whoa there dude...get a room or something. You can stay away from the forums with your Whipple love
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BullDog71ss
Whoa there dude...get a room or something. You can stay away from the forums with your Whipple love
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by clownhair
good stuff man, from what I understand though there may be an issue with hood clearance with the added height from an adapter plate. I personally want the twin screw.

I'd cut a hole in the hood for a twin screw.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 01:02 AM
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If you were to do a blower swap for example, wouldn't you need like a piggyback system or something? So basically isn't better off to wait till somebody makes a blower swap kit? I mean don't get me wrong i don't want to wait either but if i was going to do a blower swap i would want to get full potential of my investment.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 01:06 AM
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oh yeah i forgot to ask..... for the m90 blower swap what do you guys mean when you say it needs an adapter plate for the intercooler? is there an intercooler under the blower or something?
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 01:11 AM
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???? ha why yes the cobalt ss /sc has an aftercooler (intercooler) already. Do not get us started on this again...
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 01:27 AM
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This is certainly an interesting thread. I had been away from the boards for awhile, and hadn't seen many threads on supercharger swaps. It makes me ponder whether I should wait for Stage II, or go with a swap. Then again, I keep my warranty with Stage II.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by stic5
I don't really understand the reasoning behind a supercharger swap. The stock supercharger can perform quite well with only a few simple mods. If you really want to make the SS/SC a monster, I think twincharging is the answer, not a bigger supercharger.

Twincharging is the biggest waste of money in the world. Considering the S3 eco kit only puts out 263 horsepower. It's been shown the M62 is maxed from the factory and cannot provide the needed CFM to make big power.

Let's also not forget that you're going to need a new clutch to handle all the power a blower swap will provide.

42lbers and an S-AFC2 should provide all the fuel a TS can throw at the 2L.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 03:32 AM
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So basically there wouldn't be any ECU problems other than compensating for increased airflow from swapping to an m90? (I'd love to do a twin-screw)...because if it's a direct swap besides fabbing adapter plates, I have a few friends w/ s281's that are selling their m90's and might be so brave as to try the swap.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by UtOhCop
It's been shown the M62 is maxed from the factory and cannot provide the needed CFM to make big power.
How do you figure? It won't take much to get to 300hp with the M62. If you want 350 hp or more than that, then why did you buy a Cobalt in the first place?
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 03:44 AM
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From: Houston
E-mail from Bob Stiegmeier (read bottom to top):

16,000
----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxxxxxxxx
To: 'Bob Stiegemeier'
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:23 AM
Subject: RE: Hey Dyno Bob


Thanks for the info Bob. Also, do you know what (in your professional opinion) would be the maximum RPM limit for the m62?




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Stiegemeier [mailtoynoBob@stiegemeier.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:22 AM
To: xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Hey Dyno Bob



We have ported those before with success we are actually going to be having one come here to the shop do before and after dynos and we will be able to give you alot more info. We have gotten good responses from the ones already ported

thanks and check back with us in a few weeks and we will have some data for you.

Stieg

----- Original Message -----

From: xxxxxxxxxxxx

To: dynobob@stiegemeier.com

Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 5:29 PM

Subject: Hey Dyno Bob



Hello Bob,



I own a 05 Cobalt SS that comes stock equipped w/ an Eaton M62 roots supercharger. I wanted to get your opinion about porting the small blower, and if it would be worth the investment as far as gains go. This is my first 4cylinder car, and I am pretty much clueless about how they respond to blower porting vs. say an 03-04 Cobra or Lightning.



Thanks,

xxxxxxxxxx

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It would appear, according to Steigimeier that the blower can handle more than the advertised 14,000ish limit...although 16,000 is right up the ladder.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 05:39 AM
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I believe that Bob is talking about a Red Line's blower being ported if I remember correctly.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by stic5
How do you figure? It won't take much to get to 300hp with the M62.
yes it will, thats why no one has done it yet. There is no way bolt ons will get the car to 300hp without some more help.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Tofu
So basically there wouldn't be any ECU problems other than compensating for increased airflow from swapping to an m90? (I'd love to do a twin-screw)...because if it's a direct swap besides fabbing adapter plates, I have a few friends w/ s281's that are selling their m90's and might be so brave as to try the swap.
bigger injectors and an AFC of some sorts would be in order. Other than that the car shouldn't even tell a difference.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dazednconfused75
I'd cut a hole in the hood for a twin screw.
I was wondering if cutting some of the hood bracing from that location would be enough room. I know I wouldn't have a problem with doing it.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by stic5
How do you figure? It won't take much to get to 300hp with the M62. If you want 350 hp or more than that, then why did you buy a Cobalt in the first place?
you don't understand the concept behind forced induction. Twincharging is crap, espcially when the turbo is at the end of the exhause. And the M62 isn't going to get over 260 without other major intake and exhaust work. And by the time you reach that point, you've spent enough to fund a supercharger swap.

Originally Posted by clownhair
I was wondering if cutting some of the hood bracing from that location would be enough room. I know I wouldn't have a problem with doing it.
You guys, if you have a Cobalt SS SC go outside and place an egg on top of your supercharger and shut the hood - no cutting is necessary.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by clownhair
yes it will, thats why no one has done it yet. There is no way bolt ons will get the car to 300hp without some more help.

Come on man... The SS/SC is already putting out about 230hp at the crank. These simple mods should get you damn near 300hp, and more torque than those of us without a LSD can handle, for just a just a bit over a grand:


GM stage 1 kit (injectors, ECU reflash)

2.8" pulley

CAI

Less restrictive exhaust
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 09:36 AM
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stic5, I know you would like to be hopeful of hitting 300HP, but I think you need to reevaluate your estimates and educate yourself in forced induction.

And since does crank HP matter on a car with a manaul transmissions? Never? Plus the numbers we're talking about here are whp - that's what's important.

Also, you don't know how much GM is going to charge for Stage 1 yet.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 09:43 AM
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Smile

Originally Posted by VaMP
stic5, I know you would like to be hopeful of hitting 300HP, but I think you need to reevaluate your estimates and educate yourself in forced induction.
And since does crank HP matter on a car with a manaul transmissions? Never? Plus the numbers we're talking about here are whp - that's what's important.

Whoa there sparky. I'm not trying to start some kind of flame match here. I'm actually quite educated and know a lot about mechanical topics, including forced induction. I stand by my estimate of close to 300hp with those mods. It would have to give you 285hp at the very least. And since when does crank hp not matter? That is what cars are rated with you know. At any rate, this is all just my opinion, and if yours is different that's fine. I don't claim to be a prophet. We'll see what happens when the GM stage 1 kit comes out and someone tries that setup. Personally I don't have a need for 300hp; I would be more than happy with 260 or so. And yes, that's crank hp
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