Disclaimer:
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I do know that seat placement, etc. is a personal preference, and this isn't a "where do you put your seat" thread this is just a general question on the TC's seats and other's experience with placement/comfort.

Ok with that out of the way this is primarily a question for all those who have gone from a 2.2/2.4 with leather interior, or from the SS/SC with the leather seats to an 08+ TC. Since I picked up the car I've been struggling to find a comfortable position based on my personal preference for leg extension on the clutch and where I like my foot to be placed on the gas.

In my 2.2 I had a tendancy to slouch pretty badly (my ass print was clear in the middle of the seat before trade-in) but with these seats I can't seem to do the same thing and I'm still having trouble finding that one spot where I consistently feel comfortable, can work the cluth properly and still have enough of a grip on the wheel that when I go WOT I don't feel like the steering is going to jerk out of my hand .

My questions are mainly:

1. Has anyone found they need to raise the seat higher in the TC than in their previous car as a result of the seat design?
2. Have those who went from the 2.2 found they need to sit closer than before due to the different pedal placement or is it about the same?
3. Have you found that you recline the seat less than you would have previously, or do you recline it more?
4. Is it just me, or is my steering wheel not 100% centred with my driver's seat, I feel like it's shifted left by maybe 1/2 to 3/4 inch to the left?

I'm basically looking for some input here since I think at this point I'm missing something or it's a form of mental breakdown between my legs and my brain . If I'm in a position where I feel perfect on the clutch, my placement on the gas feels completely wrong. When it's perfect on the gas, I'm too close to the clutch and feel like I'm going to knee myself in the head . Like I've said, it might be due to the different pedal placement and I'm completely missing something, but I'm hoping some collective input might help...worst case it'll show me it's all in my head and to just drive the damned car and put up with a bit of discomfort on occasion .

Thanks in advance to everyone who doesn't rip me a new one and flame me to no end...believe me I felt like a complete noob before I started posting this, but figure you'll never know if you don't ask .

 

I'm just over 6'3".

I FINALLY found a good seating position. Like you, I struggled like HELL to find it.

I adjusted the distance for my legs first. (all the way back for me... so easy)
Then I adjusted the recline that was comfortable for me. I just went notch by notch until it felt right.
Then I adjusted the seat height. I used the arm cutouts in the lateral supports as a guide. The notches that allow you to comfortably move your arm back slightly in order to reach in the center console.
Then I adjusted the back support until it was comfortable.
Once that was done I adjusted the steering wheel height.

That process seemed to work well for me and I'm happy now. I never struggled so much with a car to find the right spot or needed to form a process. Not that this car is uncomfortable cause I'm happy now. But it took some work to find the sweet spot. Call me crazy but now that I feel comfortable and have the driving position that feels right it's easier to drive. Things like clutch engagement are smoother, etc.

To answer your questions:
1) I did have the seat higher until I found the right position for everything else.
2) N/A - never had a 2.2 Cobalt
3) At first it was reclined less. Now it's pretty close to the same. If anything just SLIGHTLY less.
4) Mine seems just fine to me. Make sure you are sitting straight up. Maybe you've got a wallet packed with Benjamins pushing one side up and over.

 

Phew, glad I'm not the only one, and I'll give this process a shot tonight and see how it goes. I seem to be ok finding the distance but it's when I start raising/lowering the seat that I get into a shitstorm. I'm about 5'10" and I find that with the seat relatively low, I can more easily control the clutch, but the door's armrest, shifter and steering wheel (even when all the way down) feel way too high which becomes super unconfortable.

If I take the other approach and raise the seat substantially, I find the support on my thighs alright at first, but after some time it starts to nag at the back of my legs, and I have bouts where I can't engage the clutch smoothly to save my life...I get the famous "slap" noise, but it's so extreme I'm positive it's not good for the car .

As with yourself, I'm sure once I find the right position that overal drivability of the car will improve since right now something's always off making one task or the other uncomfortable or near impossible...I'm going to blame my height I fall in between the notches for distance and I refuse to wear platform shoes .

As for the steering wheel I've sat in the vehicle and ensured I was perfect straight up, not touching any pedals or the shifter and I still feel like my arms are pulling to the left ever so slightly even if I sit on the far left of the seat. I might be crazy but I definitely don't have a packed wallet...perhaps one ass cheek is bigger than the other leading to an imbalance, better get that checked out !

 

personally, i've found myself comfortable in 2 positions pending how i feel when i get in the car, one position puts my arms much closer to the steering wheel giving me maximum control of the vehicle. The 2nd position is only slightly different, i only tilt the back of the seat 1 click back and it's a more comfortable driving position for me.

 

I have a better one for you guys. Any of you ever notice the steering wheel is not centered to the seat? Steering wheel is off to one side a couple of inches (at least it is on my 08 TC). More excellent GM quality

-Mike

 

Mine seems ok. But maybe it's how I sit/drive.

 

Fact is... I cant get the seating posture I like without lots and lots of aftermarket stuff (I'm most comfortable with the "Nascar stock car" type seating arrangement... steering wheel REALLY close, arms bent about 90* at the elbow so your arms don't get tired from just hanging way out from the body). Telescoping steering wheel would be great.

Right now the seat is...
-all the way in it's lowest position (REALLY important when the helmet goes on for autocrossing. Helmet clears the overhead by only about 2" then)
-seat is forward to where my knees clear the steering column by about an inch or so when heel/toe downshifting
-Seat is reclined to fine tune distance to the steering wheel. I'd like it about 4" closer but that won't happen without destroying everything else
-steering wheel's raised a bit from it's lowest position for knee clearance. Even so, the keyring I use for the car ONLY has the one key on it. Anything hanging off, my knees hit... Drives me ******* nuts

 

he stated this in #4 but my friend with a 08 tc said his seems off a lil like 1/2" or so

 

not having a tele-scoping steering wheel is a huge pita

 

Thanks to everyone so far for their replies...I did a fair amount of driving yesterday (about 150km) just around trying different positions, and *knock on wood* I think I've nearly got it right. I feel like I have more control over the clutch and I can ease into the gas, but it'll have to wait for the weekend it's now cold and we're expecting snow and I have the summers back on already....global warming my ass

Ahha, see I'm not the only one that feels the wheel isn't centred, it's ever so slightly to the left which can make seating occasionally awkward depending on where you place your hand on the wheel. You can feel it the most if you put your hands at 2 and 10, sit up straight and look at the angle of your arms...they pull to the left instead of being straight back and forth, odd but not impossible to adjust to.

I've tried to figure out if perhaps my seat was mounted too far right, but moving it any further to the left and it would be less than 1" from the door...you got me, I'd be curious to get in other people's '08s to see if it's consistent, or if a few seem to be a one off.

 

This car has worked out for me pretty well. I remember back in junior high when we'd do the stretch and touch your toes thing in physical ed class, my arms are shorter than most people's when my back is straight, or my legs are long, one or the other. This usually makes it awkward for me in standards because to have a good arm position and to have good use of the clutch usually clash, but somehow the Cobalt worked out really nice.

 

After much experimentation I've come to the conclusion like yourself one set of limbs or the other is out of sync which is why I'm having difficulty. The only difference is it has worked well for you and has been somewhat a pain in the ass for me. I've found the distance, recline and height (in between a few clicks) where I can comfortably control the clutch and rotate my foot from gas/brake but the arm distance has been a bit of a challenge and still is. If I recline the seat less I don't have the right bend in my hips to work the clutch, and moving the wheel up or down causes me to become somewhat cramped.

In any case I'm relatively comfortable where I am now but my body seems to be working against the arm distance and lumbar in these seats .

 

This is a great thread. I thought I was the only one struggling to find that 'just right' position. My previous car was a *cough* honda. I was able to raise/lower the seat among many other adjustments. In this car the seat almost seems to high for me. I still have headroom but it seems like the seat is unnecessarily high. I"ve been tweaking it little by little and just when I almost had it...the guy at the car wash put it way out of wack.

Back to square one.

The wheel seems to close for me. I prefer driving like the older formula 1 guys with my arms more straight, unlike the wheel-hugging nascar style.

When I set it up like that, then my legs seem too short. I'm 5'11" and I have reletively long arms so that's probably part of the problem. I would like to be able to lower the seat slightly...

 

See I'm the same as you, I know they recommend the whole "wrists should break over the wheel when your arms are fully outstretched" but due to the length of my arms, I can't do this without sitting up so flippin straight I feel like I'm going to fly face-first through my windshield every time I hit the brake .

Deciding I had to find a different approach, I found the following information which was originally provided by Ralf Schumacher:


Proper driving position, according to Ralf Schumacher

1. Seat height: as high as possible.
2. Distance from steering wheel: your outstretched arms meet the sides of the wheel at the wrists.
3. Distance to the pedals: with the clutch fully depressed, the knee is still bent.

"A Formula One driver wouldn't be able to drve more than a few hundred yards in the seating position used by most drivers...

...The best seating position for ordinary drivers is not quite as extreme as in motorsport, but the principles are similar...

...A high seating position automatically provides a better all-around view and a better view of the instruments. Of course, there are limits to height adjustment: there should be at least enough room between the ceiling of the car and the top of the driver's head for a clenched fist...

...The angle between the backrest and the seat should be 90-100 degrees, i.e., nearly upright. Most drivers prefer a more shallow position for the backrest, and initially find this most comfortable. That's not ideal, however, because the backrest supports the entire back only when the spinal column keeps its natural shape...

...The headrests are not just there for comfort; they also protect against severe injuries to the neck vertebrae. In a head-on crash, the driver is first preopelled forward, then diagonally backwards and up. Therefore, the top edge of the headrests should be at least level with the top of the head or higher. Whiplash injuries and dangerous injuries to the cervical vertebrae frequently come about because the headrests are set too low..."


Edit: Just tracked down the one from the BMW Driving school in case you're interested. I've found reading online there are some comparisons between all recommendations, but overall it's always driver preference. I just used it as a starting point when I found my old routine wasn't working with these seats:


These tips are similar to the BMW driving school tips (for street or track) if I remember correctly. I would:
1. Raise the seat to where you have 1-2 inches of headroom.
2. Bring the seat forward to where you can comfortably push the brake or clutch to the floor and still have a slightly bent knee.
3. I raise the front of the seat a bit to get even support of your thighs. You might have to bring the seat a bit more forward to still get the pedals to the floor.
4. Adjust the seatback to a comfortable upright position. More upright for the track.
5. Adjust the telescoping wheel so your wrists are over the top of the wheel with arms straight and shoulders against the seatback. You should then have a comfortable bend in the elbows when hands are at 9 & 3 or 10 & 2. I'd guess my elbows are at more than 90 degrees.
6. Adjust the lumbar support for proper back comfort and support.


Using these as a guide I've gotten it nearly bang on, but there's little I can do about the arms I was blessed with at birth . I can't follow the 90-100 degree recommendation again I feel like I'm going to fly clean out of my car I suspect my seatback is about 110 degrees at this point but it's the only way I feel like I'm secured in the damned seat .

I think you're onto something though with the seats sitting so "high"...I believe the seats in the SC (Recaros or not) sit lower overall than the TC seats but I don't believe the lumbar in the back of the Recaros is as pronounced as the TC, I almost need negative lumbar due to my shallow back...but raising the seat higher seems to have addressed this.

Sorry for the long post, just thought I'd share. Being 5'10" with "gimpy arms" () is something I can't solve, but numerous resources online have helped me find positions that suit me better without a telescopic steering column.

 

Excellent post Perma!

Very informative and a very good read. Thx for the info!

Cheers,

Buzz

 

I'm 6'3" and about 150 lb. I find that the steering wheel is too high and far away when I adjust the seat for comfortable leg and torso positioning. If I lower the wheel, it blocks the gauges. I cannot pull the wheel towards me since it does not telescope.

I test drove a Mazdaspeed3 and it DID have a telescoping steering wheel, but it was a joke. At the maximum length of extension, it was about on-par with what was in the Cobalt SS.

 

Very excellent post Perma! As for the Cobalt SS I found a couple problems with this.

The seat needs more adjustment options for this to work for me anyway. If I raise the seat height as they say then I lose my upper leg support from the seat and it KILLS. I have to have it low or I start to ache right away.
I have to have the seatback tilted back, because since I have the seat low. If I put it forward I find the angle for the lowest part of my back is too small. It kills my lower back.
I have an 08 Ford Taurus loaner car right now and it has all of these power adjustments and I find the same issues in it. If these seats allowed separate height adjustment for out butts and out upper legs that would help a ton.

 

Negative on the power seats....they're heavy....

 

Well I mean just if they had a manual adjustment for the back and front of the seat for torso and upper leg height. That would be sweet. Doesn't have to be powered.

 

Thanks for the compliments, I'm hoping it helps others out who may be having the same problems as us finding the correct position. Unfortunately it will likely find itself buried in the forums sooner rather than later, but a search should easily turn it up based on the terms I used (or at least I hope) .

Searching online turns up tons of opinions on proper positioning and it seems to realy come down to personal preference and vehicle/seats, and I agree with what Buzz, Metro and Zander have said. It seems that for some people's proportions without the telescoping wheel and lack of seperate adjustments for front to rear tilt there may never be that "perfect" postion we're all looking for. Without being able to tilt the seat depending on your weight/build you may not get even support across your thighs which becomes uncomfortable incredibly quickly and can interfere with working the clutch propertly. I'm on the scrawny side so I need to slouch to get the support, or I have a gap between my upper thigh and the seat...maybe I need to find a way to pack on some pounds to resolve my issue .

If you guys compare your driver's seat to your passenger, do you notice the change in angle between the rear cushion and front 2/3 of the seat (after the seperation in the fabric) is far more pronounced on the driver's side than the passenger? If I sit in the passenger seat it just feels "right" but the driver's rear 1/3 of the cushion is almost perfectly level where the passenger is on more of an angle. Just a thought, I'll keep experimenting and see what I can come up with .

 

The worst thing is once you do find a good position then you end up having to move the seat forward to let people in the back seat and you have to find that perfect position again. Pain in the ass! Really not a huge deal to me, but a bit annoying.

 

I have a solution to that:

#1) No one gets in my backseat unless they ABSOLUTELY need to go somewhere (they all own cars )
#2) If they do get in the backseat I ONLY let them in the passenger, there's no need for them to crawl behind the driver's seat.

I agree though if you absolutely have to move the driver's seat finding it back can take forever. I had this happen on my 2.2 when it was in and out of the shop a couple times and when I got back in my car it was all over the place...needless to say it took me another few weeks to find that sweet spot back again .

 

This would only work for distance from pedals, but you could always mark the track with a piece of chalk or wax pen, or a small piece of tape...

 

Yep that's always a good option, if wax pen or chalk is used just make sure to keep an eye on it since it will eventually wear off .

 

im short, 5'8" so i jack the seat up high, dont really slouch but lean it back a tad bit. i like to be able tos ee if any critters jump out in front of my car and i like to feel like I have enough back support when I go WOT im still in control and not holding myself up.

the knob under the seat that adjusts the back support is all the way loose. i tried adjusting it so it pushed in on my back a bit and then i realised when i drove my back hurt. forgot about that knob. one day i loosened it all the way and i realised how much more comfterble the seat was.