Trifecta tunes need to get better

 

My car is currently stock, and I'll ?probably? keep it that way. Would there be a benefit in getting an HPT tune with the stock MAP sensors? Perhaps run about 5 psi more than stock (20ish) to keep things REALLY safe, but still gain a little hp? I bought the car for fun and longevity, lol (i.e., DD).

 

ehh without a log that's sort of a difficult thing to claim for sure, and even in a log you would have a really hard time judging a spike when running a 23psi tune because the stock sensor can not register much over 23psi (about 260kpa). So anything beyond 23psi would just be a flat line. Maybe you're absolutely right and it doesn't spike, but if you're going purely off of what the boost gauge or rpd is registering, it's not always accurate and is tough to judge particularly while driving. I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone for that matter, that you absolutely NEED th 3bar map sensors BUT it is really a good idea in most cases from a tuning stand point.

You can tune it to whatever your liking. If you want only 20psi, then by all means that can absolutely be accomplished with ease. The stock sensor in the lower charge pipe has enough head room in it (about 23psi) to dial in a 20psi tune pretty well all while being able to see any spikes, particularly at high load/low rpm conditions.

 

Appreciate the response, man! I'll be looking into this down the road.

 

safe all depends on what you do, how you treat and how the cars setup and tuned. 3 bars for the money are 100% worth the extra cost. just like the phenolic spacers. they are cheap mods for the car. HPT you dont have to buy just find someone thats VERY REPUTABLE that can tune with it. the benefit from hpt is that if you have someone good they will spend the time to go over every single aspect of your tune and have somethihng right in front of them to look at.

the ecotec motors are great. i had 30k and 65+ dyno passes on mine old car(stock bottom and top end, stock trans with a spec stage 3+, and on 93 octane)with 2 different large turbo setups that both made over 400whp, long trips and daily driving. never spun a rod bearing, never blew up the motor internally, never blew up the trans or anything else. the car was still going strong before a semi truck hit me.

 

holy crap, semi truck hit u?

 

yeah. 80mph impact leaving me standed 500 miles from home in the middle of no where and the jack ass took off.... such is life sometimes. took 2 years to perfect that car to be destroyed in a matter of 10 seconds. oh well what can you do?

 

Da zam! Thats Crazy....It seems like your lucky to be here too! Hey man at least your ok right? Dont get me wrong that sucks too tho!

 

FWIW i just have the GMS1 tune flashed in my car right now with stock map sensors and its a 20ish lb tune... if it spins you'll peg the sensors at 25.4lbs pretty easily if you have a downpipe and exhaust...

 

Holy $heet! Glad you made it out alive.

 

That sounds pretty awesome and cost-effective, but wouldn't you want the extra security/insurance with the 3 bar sensors?! You might have fuel supplied for 24 lbs., but not 25+. I really think the small spike wouldn't make a huge difference, though. Perhaps the engineers had a comfort figure +X.X psi with the stock sensors.

Also, would you have the enormous spike without the d/p/exhaust combination (plus spinning, lol)?
GMS1 on a stock car would equal XXX.XX whp?! I'm curious. How do you get just the tune? Just go to a GM stealership and ask for the tune?

 

I assume your tuner just took the gms1 file and changed all the values for your map sensor settings to work with the stock 2.5bar maps instead of the 3bar, otherwise the car would have issues once you got into boost.

The low res 2.5bar map in the lower charge pipe "pegs" at about 262kpa (23.5psi) and the one in the manifold caps out at 22.5 in a log. Anything you see on your boost gauge or rpd over 262kpa is just a guestimate by the ecm, so it may not be accurate. The 3bar maps cap out a little over 29psi so there are plenty of head room in those to easily and relatively accurately register a 25+psi spike. If you really want to accurately monitor your boost for spikes over 23psi from inside the car you may want to consider investing in a true aftermarket mechanical gauge.

 

yep true fact... the car can always be replaced and rebuilt

 

Quote from Vince @ Trifecta:
"The stock boost/MAP sensors are 2.76bar, and the GMS1 sensors are 3.30bar. That means the lowest maximum boost level supported on the stock sensors is 1.76bar, or about 25.5psi at sea level and more at altitude.
Aftermarket tuners modify the diagnostic criteria to allow the sensor's entire range to be used to avoid this issue. Because of this, there is absolutely no performance or tuning benefit to installing the GMS1 sensors with the stock turbo. If you're going to run in excess of 25.5psi at sea level, with, say, an aftermarket turbo, that's a different story. Again, it's not a strict requirement though since boost level can also be controlled by the torque strategy".

 

Sorry but that's incorrect. Straight from Vince or not, it's just flat out incorrect. 262kpa (2.62bar) is all you can squeeze out of the low res sensor even with the max range setting maxed to 400kpa!

 

I agree. It really depends on the HPTuners tuner that you're working with. I've seen tuners that were both better and worse.

?

Define "better", when every customer has different goals.

For instance, every person except 2 in the SE Texas area that I can think of has blown their engines at least once on HPT. It all depends on the tuner, customer's goals, particular car, and tuner's experience.

 

Will we need to buy that 11589015 M4 bolt that is included in the original kit?

 

How did these upgrades go? what parts did you use and how easy were they to install? power gains? i was looking to do the same things to mine the car already had the turboxs catless dp and cat back when i bought it want the turboxs intake intercooler kit.