Hello.
I have a 2009 Cobalt SS Turbo with the GMS 1 tune on it and a dry K&N style filter in the factory set-up. It currently makes about 19.5 - 20 pounds of boost.
Can I upgrade the stock piping from the turbo to the intercooler with maybe Injen piping without messing up the air-fuel mixture ? Would I then need an additional tune that I would have to adjust for it ??
Or could I just upgrade the piping and be fine ? I read one thread where a guy with similar set-up (GMS 1) added the piping with no problems and gained a couple pounds of boost.
I've been told the solid piping will help because it will take the rubber hose out of the equation which can expand during heavy boost and therefore lose some power.
I'm new to the turbo world and learning as I go.
Thanks in advance for help.
Jeff

 

As long as you don't add a bov or relocate the maf youll be fine. However you will not gain any boost or power from doing this mod either. Simply looks.

 

^^^ well actually you will probably lose some power due to air density changing for worse with metal piping... and dont ever start on the K&N koolaid lol

The highest whp ZZP cars I have seen had no airfilter.

 

Are there any mods I can currently do with what I already have, to gain power and/or torque without getting into needing another tuner ?

 

^^^no. be happy with what you got.

Read this: these guys are very good. Its trucks its turbo and its true and it all applies to your car.

Banks Power | Air Density Testing

a drop in K&N element will cost you fuel mileage and power after a few weeks.

 

Are you saying that a gms1 balt will have more power with the stock piping ? If that's what your saying. I will easily remove my injen and out my stock hot side pipe back on. I still run the stock cold side. But i havnt had my stock upper on in a year and a half. Can it really make any difference at all to make a car loose power ? If so... even the smallest seat of the pants . I'm putting the stocker back on. If that is what will generate the most power.

 

Why would a DRY drop in K&N style filter "cost me fuel mileage and power after a few weeks" ???
Maybe you thought I meant an "oiled" K&N filter ?

Thanks again,
Jeff

 

Metal weighs more than plastic, weight savings! Just kidding.

But is it due to the metal heating up more than plastic, changing air density?

 

K&N Air Filter Review - Debunking the Myths (and why OEM is better)
this was extensively quoted in a thread started on here by 07 metallic SS.

folks please read the reference materials.

the K&N and similar filters offer less small particulate filtration at the get go; clog much faster than OEM filters. The study shows this.

Therefore it was not a shock for me, when I have measured fuel mileage ( not on the dyno) I find significantly better fuel mileage numbers with OEM filters compared to K&N drop in, on 6.0 LS motors, Ion Redline drop in filter and SAAB 2.3 turbo drop in filter. so thats my real world testing; I saw 2 litres per 100 km improvement this winter (OEM) compared to the previous winter, (K&N) over 5 months on the SAAB.

Now the air density issue is another part of the equation that many folks here appear to overlook, when comparing open air road wheel dyno numbers. Comments like "omigod I made huge power" and then " omigod I dynod a month later and my huge power disappeared" It comes down to air density.

For the filter on a stick folks esp LNF the underhood temps are nuts hot. So what do you expect? Read the Gail Banks article please.http://www.bankspower.com/techarticl...ensity-testing

add this test series to the information resource:http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

 

The heat transfer from metal or plastic is damn near the same, padlock and I (mostly padlock) went into the engineering calculations and the air is the actual limiting factor.

 

Shorter charge piping = quicker spool.

 

facepalm lol. read the banks article unless you think Gail Banks is a bozo and dont know jack s***t.
air density.

Try this.take two hot cobalt lnf one stock and one with the fancy metal charge pipes. Turn them off and lift hood, now touch the pipes; first the plastic one. Ok. Now the metal one.....awwwww. Ecaulk u wanna little ice for your burned pinky? lol

 

Maybe heat reflective tape to help a bit. It's popular among other platforms.

 

I've read many posts on this forum and others about IAT's rising a bit after installing metal charge pipes.

 

Powell, Why don't you come up with charge pipe ? Carbon Fiber would be nice!

 

Wasnt talking about intakes John. I know for the intake the difference of air pull location makes a huge difference, materials of construction that really wasnt studied (ei same set up with plastic vs metal) Now Donaldson uses plastic for almost all their systems, which I can assume is dual purpose plastic is easier to form than metal and is cheaper. For the charge piping the difference between metal and plastic is minimal.

Only issue I have with the Bank's article is its full of fluff from an engineering stand point, they assume base conditions of 77F and pressure of 29.24in Hg, they call out the test method being a patent which means diddy squat honestly I can file a patent for a device to scratch my ***** if I wanted, they dont provide any raw data anywhere just this % less. Never called Gale Banks a bozo, he's a successful businessman and very well be a extremely intelligent man, but its on a site that sells the intake the according to the test method they developed shows its the best.

 

When you say a minimal difference between metal and stock charge piping. Which one is shorter ? The injen I assume. But I haven't looked at my stick for almost two years. Lol ... if the stock will perform better and provide cooler/lower iat's. Then I will remove the injen and sell it and be happy with my stock pipes. I was just wondering if anyone has a direct answer as to which will perform better. Because it sounds like the stock charge pipe is the best for performance.

 

I am not gonna lie to you guys. From my experience is that I had metal charge pipes I have too much heat soak and I had to wait IAT to go down to boost. When I put my stock charge pipe back on, I got my power back! I am gonna leave stock back on and upgrade ZZP coupler. See how that goes, I am sure ZZP coupler will be great with stock charge pipes.

 

Make note that yelcal7 agreed with me. Roflmao. Quicksilver are you saying that you haven't cleaned your k
And n for two years??!

 

I see that, and I've witnessed 2-3F higher IAT2s with zzp's lower change pipe, but with the zzp hot side IAT2s when cruising matched ambient. So next weekend I'll throw some heat reflective tape on the hot side and see if it makes a difference. That was even with my filter on a stick (note I have ditched the shitty k&n and have an amsoil not the one referenced in those tests, I will post up my UOA on both k&n vs amsoil, still debating going back to stock with zzp's tube)

 

The only best thing is upgrading ZZP Intercooler. Now, I'll see how that ZZP Upgrade Intercooler Coupler goes. Yep! Totally agreed with Powell, when I upgrade ZZP Intercooler and OTTP Charge Pipes. It feels the same as stock. I was confused and said is that suppose to be this ? Then I decided to sold my OTTP Charge Pipes and when back to Stock Charge Pipes. All the sudden my car woke up, quicker, and faster than it was with OTTP Charge Pipes.

 

Quicksilver will be back later. He's going to change that filter that's been on there for 2 years lol.

 

[QUOTE=Shanedude;7358725. uicksilver will be back later. He's going to change that filter that's been on there for 2 years lol.[/QUOTE]

Lol ... come on guys !! ;-). On a serious note. I have cleaned it three times over the last year and a half. My question is based on what John said about the charge piping. And also what yelcal7 has said. Would I really gain power from putting my stock charge piping back on over my injen hot side ?? I have had my stock air filter back on over 8 months ago. Ever sense I read a post that john wrote about the kn sri allowing too much dirt in. And frankly. My car felt slower with the kn intake. It just made a cool noise. But I said the hell with it and took it out and out the stock one back on before the winter. If I will gain more power after dicthin the injen piping. Then again... back on the stock piping will go. ;-).


Also note... I only ran the kn for about nine or ten months.

 

I really hope ZZP check this out and come up with new idea with Charge Pipe with Plastic or Carbon Fiber would be nice! Cause Metal Charge Pipes has prove it raise IAT while Stock Charge Pipe has proven lower IAT.

 

GMS1 was based on stock parts so I would say yes. But not a big difference.

There is always the chance of plastic breaking. I will admit, I chance it every winter aswell(I'm on stock charge piping). Keep off high boost in the winter, and allow sufficient warm up time. GMS1 is still 20psi and can fluctuate +/- 2psi. Metal wins over plastic for reliability.