View Poll Results: Best Catless Downpipe
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll
Best downpipe?
Senior Member
Joined: 09-23-08
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
I think that people are a little aggressive in backing their opinions. However, you are subject to the same phenomena. On one hand you say that it makes you angry to have people rain on your parade but in the same post you say that yours is a better product. Seems like the same type of thing.
I would like to hear from you and anyone else that feels CIA is making a better produt though. I want to know how you come to this conclusion.
We posted point after point with pictures about our product and CIA's. CIA did the same but was shown to not be telling the truth about the #'s bends (both pipes have 2), the magnetic quality of the material (I posted a video), the US part vs. Chinese (Matt posted pictures), etc. So we're left with the welds, ZZP posted close up, I do not believe CIA did but I never knocked the quality of their welds. ZZP sonic cleans their parts before welding, ZZP uses water jet instead of laser cut flanges. ZZP has offered to use laser jet flanges for anyone that wants them or to use the same cat as CIA so what are we left with? I would like to know how their piece is superior to ours so that I can improve our product. So far this thread has only turned up lies, controversial information, a bunch of customers who like both companies, and data on the ZZP pipes distinguishing them from our competitors.
I would like to hear from you and anyone else that feels CIA is making a better produt though. I want to know how you come to this conclusion.
We posted point after point with pictures about our product and CIA's. CIA did the same but was shown to not be telling the truth about the #'s bends (both pipes have 2), the magnetic quality of the material (I posted a video), the US part vs. Chinese (Matt posted pictures), etc. So we're left with the welds, ZZP posted close up, I do not believe CIA did but I never knocked the quality of their welds. ZZP sonic cleans their parts before welding, ZZP uses water jet instead of laser cut flanges. ZZP has offered to use laser jet flanges for anyone that wants them or to use the same cat as CIA so what are we left with? I would like to know how their piece is superior to ours so that I can improve our product. So far this thread has only turned up lies, controversial information, a bunch of customers who like both companies, and data on the ZZP pipes distinguishing them from our competitors.
WINNAR... Zooomer spoke with respect and with answers. I posted pictures of my PERSONAL pipe I got from ZZP. And I am NO ZZP promoter, but this pipe is ****. Fit perfect, the only issue was the 02 bung which I spoke with them about a few minutes after installation.
What seperates a $400 pipe from a $200 pipe when all materials and quality is the same...
How about we move away from the CIA vs. ZZP and figure out why HAHN charges $400 for theirs... is it titanium alloy... NOPE same **** but people still swing from their nuts!
I have heard good and bad from both companies... I happen to buy the best product for the best price (with the exception of my crappy charge pipes) which as soon as I have money will be replaced as well!
But for your arguement metal>ceramic
Last edited by 1badBlueberrySC; Sep 9, 2009 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
seriously ....
This is exactly why I stated we would, for no extra charge, downgrade our pipe to the metal matrix cat or laser cut flanges. Because of this offer, I feel that we're offering a better product (but at minimum comparable) product for a much cheaper price. I doubt many would complain about paying less (other than the people bitching because we offer to buy back cats??)
I only have 1 thing to say about this post....
WINNAR... Zooomer spoke with respect and with answers. I posted pictures of my PERSONAL pipe I got from ZZP. And I am NO ZZP promoter, but this pipe is ****. Fit perfect, the only issue was the 02 bung which I spoke with them about a few minutes after installation.
What seperates a $400 pipe from a $200 pipe when all materials and quality is the same...
How about we move away from the CIA vs. ZZP and figure out why HAHN charges $400 for theirs... is it titanium alloy... NOPE same **** but people still swing from their nuts!
I have heard good and bad from both companies... I happen to buy the best product for the best price (with the exception of my crappy charge pipes) which as soon as I have money will be replaced as well!
That is true... the vibrant metal core cats are the ****... but the main argument of this thread was the catless downpipes...
But for your arguement metal>ceramic
WINNAR... Zooomer spoke with respect and with answers. I posted pictures of my PERSONAL pipe I got from ZZP. And I am NO ZZP promoter, but this pipe is ****. Fit perfect, the only issue was the 02 bung which I spoke with them about a few minutes after installation.
What seperates a $400 pipe from a $200 pipe when all materials and quality is the same...
How about we move away from the CIA vs. ZZP and figure out why HAHN charges $400 for theirs... is it titanium alloy... NOPE same **** but people still swing from their nuts!
I have heard good and bad from both companies... I happen to buy the best product for the best price (with the exception of my crappy charge pipes) which as soon as I have money will be replaced as well!
That is true... the vibrant metal core cats are the ****... but the main argument of this thread was the catless downpipes...
But for your arguement metal>ceramic
IT'S A RANDOM TECH DOWNPIPE
Hahn doesn't even make it.
Senior Member
Joined: 05-11-06
Posts: 967
Likes: 0
From: Auburn, WA
I am done debating with other vendors. Everyone is intelligent enough to read the info presented by both sides as well as read between all the lines.
The only improvement possible to our stainless DP's is to replace the laser cut flanges with cnc machined flanges. There is NOTHING better than CNC machined parts; not laser, water, or any other method. And, I'm happy to say we have things in the works. Also, we have sold out of all our DP's. I am bending up one last batch of DP's. We have been overwhelmed with orders and, as a result, we will stop accepting orders once they are gone. I have several thousand bends to do in the up-coming weeks and will not be able to offer the sale beyond this final batch. So contact me soon before I can no longer offer the sale prices.
Thanks to everyone for your orders and support.
The only improvement possible to our stainless DP's is to replace the laser cut flanges with cnc machined flanges. There is NOTHING better than CNC machined parts; not laser, water, or any other method. And, I'm happy to say we have things in the works. Also, we have sold out of all our DP's. I am bending up one last batch of DP's. We have been overwhelmed with orders and, as a result, we will stop accepting orders once they are gone. I have several thousand bends to do in the up-coming weeks and will not be able to offer the sale beyond this final batch. So contact me soon before I can no longer offer the sale prices.
Thanks to everyone for your orders and support.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-05-09
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 2
From: Des Moines, IA
I hate to beat a dead horse, but my CIA catted downpipe arrived today. I figured I'd take some good pictures and post my general impressions. This is the only CIA product I own, so I'd consdier myself pretty unbias.
1.) The DP is fully TIG welded. I see no signs of MIG welding on it as I saw in some peoples earlier posts. The welds are pretty decent really, no complaints. Don't see a bunch of tungsten dipping going on. Whoever welded it wasnt heavy on the peddle either.
2.) Everything on this DP is stainless. Even the weld collars on the flex are, which if any of you ever buy flex's or weld much is semi rare (because it costs a few bucks more). The only thing that my magnet would stick to was the catalyist matrix inside the DP. BTW magnetism isnt the 100% sure fire test for stainless always, but for the purpose of this its fine.
3.) The finish of the product is good, if I had one complaint it would be a burr inside the pipe where the o2 chamber meets the 3". You'll see that in one of my pictures. No biggie though and I cleaned it off with a long carbide and my dremel flex. I'm just kinda OCD so it bugged me.
FWIW, I have a $1700 stainless DP + catback on my MR2 from Berk Technology. That is one of the finest exhausts you can still buy for the MR2 and even they used mild flanges on the DP and a flex with mild weld collars. For $315 or whatever I paid out the door I cannot complain.
So in closing, barring any insane installation issue, I'd buy another product from CIA.
I'm sure the ZZP/Hahn pieces are nice too, just relaying my experiences with the CIA since its what I have in my hands.
Pics:
Sorry about the shoes there, I took the pics in the mudroom
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=1
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=1
If any of you want to see MUCH more high res (like 3200 x whatever) you're welcome to see my gallery here:
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...2_itemId=11244
1.) The DP is fully TIG welded. I see no signs of MIG welding on it as I saw in some peoples earlier posts. The welds are pretty decent really, no complaints. Don't see a bunch of tungsten dipping going on. Whoever welded it wasnt heavy on the peddle either.
2.) Everything on this DP is stainless. Even the weld collars on the flex are, which if any of you ever buy flex's or weld much is semi rare (because it costs a few bucks more). The only thing that my magnet would stick to was the catalyist matrix inside the DP. BTW magnetism isnt the 100% sure fire test for stainless always, but for the purpose of this its fine.
3.) The finish of the product is good, if I had one complaint it would be a burr inside the pipe where the o2 chamber meets the 3". You'll see that in one of my pictures. No biggie though and I cleaned it off with a long carbide and my dremel flex. I'm just kinda OCD so it bugged me.
FWIW, I have a $1700 stainless DP + catback on my MR2 from Berk Technology. That is one of the finest exhausts you can still buy for the MR2 and even they used mild flanges on the DP and a flex with mild weld collars. For $315 or whatever I paid out the door I cannot complain.
So in closing, barring any insane installation issue, I'd buy another product from CIA.
I'm sure the ZZP/Hahn pieces are nice too, just relaying my experiences with the CIA since its what I have in my hands.
Pics:
Sorry about the shoes there, I took the pics in the mudroom
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=1
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=1
If any of you want to see MUCH more high res (like 3200 x whatever) you're welcome to see my gallery here:
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...2_itemId=11244
Senior Member
Joined: 08-28-08
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 1
From: Sunshine State
I hate to beat a dead horse, but my CIA catted downpipe arrived today. I figured I'd take some good pictures and post my general impressions. This is the only CIA product I own, so I'd consdier myself pretty unbias.
1.) The DP is fully TIG welded. I see no signs of MIG welding on it as I saw in some peoples earlier posts. The welds are pretty decent really, no complaints. Don't see a bunch of tungsten dipping going on. Whoever welded it wasnt heavy on the peddle either.
2.) Everything on this DP is stainless. Even the weld collars on the flex are, which if any of you ever buy flex's or weld much is semi rare (because it costs a few bucks more). The only thing that my magnet would stick to was the catalyist matrix inside the DP. BTW magnetism isnt the 100% sure fire test for stainless always, but for the purpose of this its fine.
3.) The finish of the product is good, if I had one complaint it would be a burr inside the pipe where the o2 chamber meets the 3". You'll see that in one of my pictures. No biggie though and I cleaned it off with a long carbide and my dremel flex. I'm just kinda OCD so it bugged me.
FWIW, I have a $1700 stainless DP + catback on my MR2 from Berk Technology. That is one of the finest exhausts you can still buy for the MR2 and even they used mild flanges on the DP and a flex with mild weld collars. For $315 or whatever I paid out the door I cannot complain.
So in closing, barring any insane installation issue, I'd buy another product from CIA.
I'm sure the ZZP/Hahn pieces are nice too, just relaying my experiences with the CIA since its what I have in my hands.
Pics:
Sorry about the shoes there, I took the pics in the mudroom
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=1
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=1
If any of you want to see MUCH more high res (like 3200 x whatever) you're welcome to see my gallery here:
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...2_itemId=11244
1.) The DP is fully TIG welded. I see no signs of MIG welding on it as I saw in some peoples earlier posts. The welds are pretty decent really, no complaints. Don't see a bunch of tungsten dipping going on. Whoever welded it wasnt heavy on the peddle either.
2.) Everything on this DP is stainless. Even the weld collars on the flex are, which if any of you ever buy flex's or weld much is semi rare (because it costs a few bucks more). The only thing that my magnet would stick to was the catalyist matrix inside the DP. BTW magnetism isnt the 100% sure fire test for stainless always, but for the purpose of this its fine.
3.) The finish of the product is good, if I had one complaint it would be a burr inside the pipe where the o2 chamber meets the 3". You'll see that in one of my pictures. No biggie though and I cleaned it off with a long carbide and my dremel flex. I'm just kinda OCD so it bugged me.
FWIW, I have a $1700 stainless DP + catback on my MR2 from Berk Technology. That is one of the finest exhausts you can still buy for the MR2 and even they used mild flanges on the DP and a flex with mild weld collars. For $315 or whatever I paid out the door I cannot complain.
So in closing, barring any insane installation issue, I'd buy another product from CIA.
I'm sure the ZZP/Hahn pieces are nice too, just relaying my experiences with the CIA since its what I have in my hands.
Pics:
Sorry about the shoes there, I took the pics in the mudroom
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=1
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=2
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...serialNumber=1
If any of you want to see MUCH more high res (like 3200 x whatever) you're welcome to see my gallery here:
http://www.ecimulti.org/gallery2/mai...2_itemId=11244
That burr looks like a MOUNTAIN on the high res. Great pics of an impressive piece.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-05-09
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 2
From: Des Moines, IA
Yah it was a burr and some pipe crud that knocked right off.
Nothing out of the normal from anything I've ever bought in the past though really. Always pays to inspect and clean up any aftermarket part you buy, no matter what vendor. In theory that would've just gone out the exhaust but my times free right?
Dumb question, but will my AFR's still be accurate in HPT with that sensor chamber on there? I assume so since so many tuned folks have them on here. I've never owned a car that required an o2 chamber like that.
Nothing out of the normal from anything I've ever bought in the past though really. Always pays to inspect and clean up any aftermarket part you buy, no matter what vendor. In theory that would've just gone out the exhaust but my times free right?
Dumb question, but will my AFR's still be accurate in HPT with that sensor chamber on there? I assume so since so many tuned folks have them on here. I've never owned a car that required an o2 chamber like that.
Senior Member
Joined: 07-25-08
Posts: 12,450
Likes: 6
From: Florida
Yah it was a burr and some pipe crud that knocked right off.
Nothing out of the normal from anything I've ever bought in the past though really. Always pays to inspect and clean up any aftermarket part you buy, no matter what vendor. In theory that would've just gone out the exhaust but my times free right?
Dumb question, but will my AFR's still be accurate in HPT with that sensor chamber on there? I assume so since so many tuned folks have them on here. I've never owned a car that required an o2 chamber like that.
Nothing out of the normal from anything I've ever bought in the past though really. Always pays to inspect and clean up any aftermarket part you buy, no matter what vendor. In theory that would've just gone out the exhaust but my times free right?
Dumb question, but will my AFR's still be accurate in HPT with that sensor chamber on there? I assume so since so many tuned folks have them on here. I've never owned a car that required an o2 chamber like that.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-05-09
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 2
From: Des Moines, IA
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh okay, for some reason I had it in my head the car only had a downstream o2 sensor. Whats stupid is when I fixed the oil leaks I even noticed that o2 sensor on the housing. I'm a big dummy.
Senior Member
Joined: 02-09-09
Posts: 4,374
Likes: 5
From: Tejas
My downpipe had the burr too... but since the only place it's going is out the back of the pipe, I left it alone and didn't see it as an issue.
If it was a charge pipe or intake pipe, you can bet I would've been fussy... very fussy.
Nobody wants to have that Hahn intake burr ingestion issue happen again to them.
If it was a charge pipe or intake pipe, you can bet I would've been fussy... very fussy.
Nobody wants to have that Hahn intake burr ingestion issue happen again to them.
Senior Member
Joined: 08-02-08
Posts: 3,882
Likes: 0
From: Alabama
with a ZZP 3" downpipe, Matt's airbox mod, and a SC tune I went 8.564 through the 1/8th with a 87.21 trap:
that is on the stock continentals to boot... you all can bitch and moan about looks all you want... ZZP will just continue to help us go fast where it counts... I don't even have to get on here and argue.... the pipe is under my car, out of sight... and runs well, what more do you need from a downpipe?
oh yeah, i got the win light because the cobra red lighted, lol
that is on the stock continentals to boot... you all can bitch and moan about looks all you want... ZZP will just continue to help us go fast where it counts... I don't even have to get on here and argue.... the pipe is under my car, out of sight... and runs well, what more do you need from a downpipe?
oh yeah, i got the win light because the cobra red lighted, lol
Wow...this thread was interesting, and I feel assured that both ZZP and CIA make great products and take pride in their work. I never did see a direct dyno comparison for ZZP's DP vs. CIA's DP though, which is all that I really wanted. Anybody have this? It would be really nice to see numbers. Of course, you'd have to do it on about 100 diff cars with identical setups to really get any info, because statistically speaking N=1 doesn't make for good stats.
But...any dyno comparisons? Anyone...anyone...bueller?
Wow...this thread was interesting, and I feel assured that both ZZP and CIA make great products and take pride in their work. I never did see a direct dyno comparison for ZZP's DP vs. CIA's DP though, which is all that I really wanted. Anybody have this? It would be really nice to see numbers. Of course, you'd have to do it on about 100 diff cars with identical setups to really get any info, because statistically speaking N=1 doesn't make for good stats.
But...any dyno comparisons? Anyone...anyone...bueller?
But...any dyno comparisons? Anyone...anyone...bueller?
Wow...this thread was interesting, and I feel assured that both ZZP and CIA make great products and take pride in their work. I never did see a direct dyno comparison for ZZP's DP vs. CIA's DP though, which is all that I really wanted. Anybody have this? It would be really nice to see numbers. Of course, you'd have to do it on about 100 diff cars with identical setups to really get any info, because statistically speaking N=1 doesn't make for good stats.
But...any dyno comparisons? Anyone...anyone...bueller?
Last edited by tglems; Oct 21, 2009 at 11:50 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
