I'd just like to say...............

After numerous posts I've seen by employees of CIA & ZZP on these forums, ... I wouldn't buy anything from either of you Bummer too, as I'm placing my order for exhaust almost as I type. I'm even paying slightly more for mine because I find vendor arguments so obnoxious.

I'm sure you both will tell me to go **** in my hat, and thats fine.

 

Completely acceptable. You're right. No one wins in these arguments. I should know better by now. That's actually why I decided to just have some fun with this. It's unfortunate because we really do take great pride in our products and workmanhsip. I guess the moral of the story is "pride". It so often gets in the way and is so easily over-looked as the problem.

Your point is well taken and I have nothing harsh to say to you. I'll chalk it up to a learning experience and concentrate my efforts on custom projects, new designs, quality control and shipping.

Thanks for bringing me back to my senses. As they say, the best way to learn a lesson is the hard way...

 

ZZP's downpipe is only 199$ Stainless steel.

Sorry but thats substantially cheaper then most and to be honest its a piece of stainless stell with one bend. Pretty difficult to **** up. Plus ZZP has great customer service. / Thread.

 

i only hear good things about CIA... ZZP has a shitty rep for .Net..... and morgn at synapseturbo is THE ****!!!! i say synapse but you didnt list them

 

I can rep for Clear Image products. Their craftsmanship is nothing that I have seen before. I felt bad placing the charge pipes and down pipe on the car knowing they'd eventually get dirty.

Not only do they look good, they perform just as well and are fit perfectly.

 

I'd like to address a few things here.

Dan is a liar. He's lying about ZZP and our products. Consider this:

1. He claimed our pipes don't have 2 bends. We posted a picture proving he is lying and a customer posted backing up the claim.

2. He stated that our pipes are made of Chinese metal and magnetic. Matt posted a picture. I have a video: http://www.zzperformance.com/miscftp/LNFDP_mpeg4.mp4

Now if we have concrete proof of one lie, 2 lies, 3, what else do you think might be untrue? Claims of HP? Claims of manufacturing?

I already stated that his and Hahn's pipes look great and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I could easily say ZZP's are better because they are. Soon I'll have dyno proof showing the HP numbers on an LNF with our cat and Dan's.

But while we're dick swinging, let me continue to unroll my anaconda:

ZZP and CIA were both started in 1999, we both have mandrel benders in house. But what CIA doesn't have is an ultra sonic cleaner. We do. In fact we clean our pieces before welding to ensure weld purity. CIA has markings all over their pipes because they do not take this step. An ultra-sonic cleaner is expensive and they don't have one. We have a flow bench to check the flow of our parts, Dan doesn't have one. We have a dyno in house to test our parts, Dan doesn't have one. Our employees drive Cobalts and Matt drives an LNF, can CIA say the same?

2nd, I posted about why we use water jet flanges. Dan disagrees so I'll use his tactics. Anyone that wants a laser cut flange, ZZP will downgrade you to that standard at no extra charge! How can we do this? Because ZZP went through 6 months of government application and scrutiny to buy our own laser cutting machine. Yes, it was very expensive and large. Weapons grade large I guess because we weren't allowed to just buy it w/o a background check. But if Dan wants to match our pricing on downpipes, maybe he should email us for a quote on flanges. We don’t use laser cut but he can and we can provide them for a lot less than he’s paying.

3rd, there is a lot of debates about cats. But to date no one has POSTED a dyno comparison. We have done them and I can tell you that the cat we have will make more HP than the metal one discussed. But hey, you can believe me or you can believe someone who has been proven to make up lies about the metal used, the # of bends, the magnetic properties, etc. Or you can believe ZZP. For those that don’t believe ZZP, I have this offer. We will sell you our downpipe with the spun metal cat for the same price. Just email and request the downgrade and once again, we won’t charge you any extra!

4th, on the cat recycling. IT"S AN OPTION!! There is no requirement to send in your old cat. We just offer it as a service that our customers like. They are not worth $100. If they are, I'd like to sell mine to Dan or someone else claiming they are for $70. You can make a free $30, we have dozens. Furthermore, why don't other companies offer you the option? How do you damn ZZP for offering an optional service that you don't offer? It's stupid.

Finally, there has been some confusion about our pricing because of the O2 options on our site. The downpipes are not changing in price, our site is setup with drop downs for options. And upon reading this thread I’m going to show you the business ethics (or lack there-of) of Dan once again. Due to the confusion ZZP is going to lower dowpipe pricing $20, and we’re going to issue a credit to anyone who paid more. Just email with invoice #. I’m betting Dan won’t do the same showing who’s in it for the money and who’s actually being honest about bringing a quality product to the market for an honest price. Furthermore, if Dan is dropping his pricing to match ZZP now, what does that say about gouging the customers to begin with? I’ll let you decide but if this post gets locked or deleted, you can bet it was CIA not wanting customers to read what's in it, not ZZP.

 

OMG I need more popcorn!!!
:runs to nearest popcorn vendor:

This is Epic to anyone who's looking for a DP sounds like now is greatest time in the world to grab a DP for the LNF cobalt!!!

 

Email sent for credit, thank you!

 

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l-lsj-performance-tech-47/interesting-info-e85-injector-sizing-183808/

This just backs it up.....So nice of a company to bash its possible customers. I would never purchase an item from you, I do not care if the same item was much more from another vendor, I have ethics and make plenty to avoid what I consider shady companies like yours.

Just for your reference

Scrap Convertors (Small GM) 51.04 85.02 each USD
Scrap Convertors (Large GM) 76.71 127.75 each USD

Also changest based on the price of precious metals.

 

In short I will say that I have had two downpipes now.

Both were of a really high quality.

Oh and the Hahn catted isn't the same as the hahn catless... some people probably picked up on this.

The ZZP downpipe is a nice, straight, all one piece downpipe.

I may not how loud they bark, and they come off brash...as long as they make good parts I could honestly care ******* less.

 

I'm on the ZZP web page lookin at downpipes and it gives an option for O2 bung? I don't know much about this kinda thing, but what the hell is that? LOL.

 

hahahahahaha

 

for the O2 sensor after the catalytic converter
It screws into it. keeps the car from throwing CELs. the other way would be to delete the code.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bung

Don't know if this answers your question but I love DICTIONARIES.

 

No prob, happy to take care of you!


2 points.

1. My offer stands to you as well. Would you like to buy a bunch of converters for $70? Following that, what if they were worth a million dollars. Do that mean ZZP is ripping people off by offering to buy them but wouldn't be ripping people off if we didn't offer? you're point is not well thought out.

2. I'm not after every customer and I accept the fact that no matter what you sell or how it's marketed, some people will not do business with you. I am after the educated customer who buys the best part for the best price regardless of who's selling it. So far the strategy has led us to be the #1 vendor in our field and it makes sense. Best part + best price will eventually lead to best sales. Lies and screwing over customers works for some companies short term but we're in it for the long term. I could list 20 competitors of ZZPs that have gone out of business. many whom had people backing them like a religious belief only to find out later they stole people's $ and ran. ZZP customers come back because they know what to expect and they like it

 

To be honest... I am that customer. Zooomer and myself have gotten into it in the past... yet I still bought this downpipe!

 

Thanks for the help. Much appreciated

 

Couldn't have said it any better myself.
And to think I paid $5 for this education in marketing strategy.

 

Zoomer I sent an email and Turbo Tim replied asking what I was talking about?

 

An amazing ability to twist words. I'm through argueing with you guys.

Good luck to ZZP in their marketing of their products and their interaction with the forum members and customers.

To all Clear Image Automotive customers, thanks for your support. To those ordering down pipes today, thanks again.

Let us know what you think of our products upon arrival.

 

I can vouch for Dan and his workmanship! Grade A!

 

Zzp.

 

One more vote for CIA. The welds on my downpipe are beautiful and I am in the manufacturing industry, so I am really picky. The sound is also really nice ,even for the catted version with the stock catback. Actually, I don't want my car to be any louder.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjjLjTibpnI

 

I applaud both ZZP and CIA. apparently you guys both produce grade A downpipes. Regardless of who's gets 1 more whp, there both beautiful and are a huge improvement over stock.

But as long as you guys are at eachother throats, maybe you can move onto the next cobalt part and see who can produce the best cheapest one of those

 

ZZP Intake, ZZP charg piping, ZZP exhaust,

????